Help (again) for a new member

[Anonymous]

    Hi, I'm a new member and have a few questions. I currently have an "L" shaped Lionel only layout. It is small, and recently I re-did it to make it bigger, at the loss of being able to run two trains at once. It features a 1996 Lionel Santa Fe freight set with a 4-4-2 steam engine, a 2001 Lionel New York Central Limited passenger train with an F-7 diesel engine (with 2 illuminated passenger cars and observation car) and a Pennsylvania Railway Flyer also with a 4-4-2 steam. I also have a boat load of cars (my favorites are a Maine Central heavy-weight box car, a Santa Fe car carrier with two red Crown Victorias, a operating Southern Railroad  coal-carrier and my personal favorite, a Rio Grande snow plow) and accessories. But what I want to know is, what brands and other versions of model trains are compatable with Lionel standard O trains/track and works well with them? All I have are Lionel, nothing but Lionel and that is fine with me (for now). But Lionel doesn't always have what I'm looking for: New York Central and Pennsylvania Railroad steam and vintage diesel. I will continue to purchase and support Lionel (they're my favorite brand, just like Ford is my favorite auto-maker and Microsoft my favorite electronic supplier), but sometimes they don't have what I need or what I'm looking for. Keep in mind, my layout has no new Lionel Fastrack, so it's all three-rail classic Lionel O guage track.

Cheers!

[cnw1995]

Welcome - that layout sounds wonderful. There are several major manufacturers you'll find at a local hobby store - advertised in the pages of CTT - or online - that'll run on your layout. As long as the items are advertised as O gauge...Engines and rolling stock by K-Line (defunct but expected to return to the market as a brand extension of Lionel), MTH (or Mike's Train House for older items), Atlas O, Industrial Rail (both 'older' and as a current brand extention by Atlas) and smaller niche firms like Pride Lines and Western Hobbycraft. From overseas and featured in CTT: Ace Trains from Great Britain... 

[Anonymous]

All brands will work with what you have within the limits of your track diameter which you did not state. How they look is subjective. Best match for Lionel PW is Williams,especially the new classic series and K-Line. Railking cars tend to sit a bit high when mixed with Lionel.  You may also consider Weaver but I would upgrade the rolling stock to diecast trucks.

Dale Hz

[Anonymous]

Thanks, but do all list their guages same? I thought Lionel O guage was just Lionel, and that all the different companys had different names for their scales?

I think I will research MTH, and Atlas because I have a friend who has gotton MTH and Atlas track and he claims there good. Are they all the same in price? Lionel is a tad expensive when you are short on cash, $99 is their cheapest (has anyone noticed, Lionel has kind of grown away from the younger market). I usually shop through eBay (although, my NYC, Santa Fe and Pennsy sets are all from a Lionel dealer), I am "polarxpress1" there and only bid on Lionel and Ford Tempos.

[Anonymous]

I just got off of MTH's official website, I can see buying from them but first I'll have to do a little research. I liked their large variety, and they're NYC Hudson was about $500 cheaper then Lionel's (although, the Lionel might have been better or something, I don't know). I did notice that their advertising was not half as good as Lionel's and, they didn't provide as much detail in their sepcifications for their products (heck, Lionel had history/facts on the trains!). But, I think I mighht order some Pennsylvania madison passenger cars from them, not quite sure.

[ChiefEagles]

There are lots of places you can pick up Lionel engines and cars at good prices [other brands too].  Atlas will usually run the highest.  Atlas has great details [I've got several of their engines and you have to be careful handling them due to the little detail parts.] but is more expensive.  What in Lionel is $99 and the cheapest?

[Jumijo]

The Dockside loco is $99, as is the 4-4-2 separate sale starter set loco.

Jim

[trainmasterz]

Chief,

He's talking about the RioGrande steam engine, it was the cheapest loco they adsvertized.  In my opinion a person could buy a $150.00 starter set, and get the cheap steam loco (possibly a little cheaper # than the R.G.) 2 cars, caboose, loop of fast track and a little CW-80 if they wanted a economical solution.

[Anonymous]

What I am basically looking for is New York Central and Pennsylvania Railroad steam and early diesel/electric. And something a little better then the basic 4-4-2s, more along the lines of Lionel's Mikado type engines and Berkshires. The $99 trains are either simple 4-4-2 steam engines with a whistle, smoke and a headlight with no real detail such as seperatly applied hand rails, illuminated cab and number boards, and the $99 diesels are basic diesels with horn, illuminated cab and headlights and also lack the seperatly applied details. But, I like my two basic engines and they have lasted a long time without problems. But I would like at least one steam engine with RailSounds, light up firebox and number-boards etc. The 4-6-0 Mikado from Lionel sounds good, but is in the $500 range.

[lionelsoni]

A mikado is a 2-8-2.  A 4-6-0 is a ten-wheeler.

[cnw1995]

Ah yes, I can't believe I forgot Williams.

[ChiefEagles]

Williams is good.  Remember, you get what you pay for.  My experience with the cheap stater locs [Jim A and I have discussed this] is the whistle doesn't half blow and the smoke unit is crap.  Sorry. 

[trainmasterz]

I agree Chief, you do get what you pay for.  I bought one for my daughter for under the tree.  The wistle hardly blows.  However, the smoker as you said was crap, untill she somehow derailed it and walked away from it with the throttle @ full.  Of course the smoke unit melted and leaked all over the living room floor.  What a pleasant aroma to catch a whiff of in the middle of Christmas dinner!

[Modeloldtimer]

Look on line such as:
http://www.internettrains.com
http://www.internethobbies.com

Look in Modelroader or a Railroad Magazine for dealers near you.
You can also look up dealers while at the above cites.

[Demon09]

Your brand loyalty is just fine to start off with (I currently run about 97% Lionel product, and felt the same loyalty when I started), but later on as you become more involved you will find that other manufacturers offer great products as well.  MTH, Lionel, and Atlas seem to be the major players in the market at the moment, so you might be more likely to see their products, but if you take a good look around you're sure to find the roadnames and quality products you want from many other manufacturers as well.

I plan on buying more MTH and Williams products soon to expand my collection as well.  Some of the other brands I've recently gotten into are K-Line (now owned by Lionel), MTH, and Industrial-Rail (now owned by Atlas).  On my layout, you wouldn't know the difference.  Then again, to me, trains are trains, fun no matter who made them as long as they were what I was looking for.

[Anonymous]

I have been researching, and MTH has a lot to offer and at much cheaper prices then either Lionel or Atlas. But Atlas and Lionel seem more into detail and features, at a higher price. As much as I love Lionel, I am sort fo disapointed as to where they're headed. If you have noticed (just take a look at prices), they have grown with their buyers and are now basically a collector only brand, and back in the post-war era they were for kids and grown-ups.  It is kind of sad, because the average kid can not afford the nicer Lionel (the $200 Berkshire sets etc, not the LionMaster) and the only kid sets are the basic ones like the $99 4-4-2s and yard switchers. And I'm not the only one who feels this way, I have a large variety of train/model train movies and my two biggest (most known) Lionel tapes are the 1996 Magic of Lionel in which they take a look at 12 different Lionel layouts and interview their owners and the last one addresses the issue that Lionel is a collector brand, not what it used to be and this is sort of the reason they aren't as popular to the younger crowd as they used to be. The other movie was the two-part special: A Century of Lionel, and they also interviewed fans and a different man also said Lionel should get back in touch with their younger side. Kind of like the Mustang which used to be a $3,000 car for the young crowd and today, probably not one kid can afford the Mustang GT500 or an V8 Mustang for that matter.

[fwright]

I have been researching, and MTH has a lot to offer and at much cheaper prices then either Lionel or Atlas. But Atlas and Lionel seem more into detail and features, at a higher price. As much as I love Lionel, I am sort fo disapointed as to where they're headed. If you have noticed (just take a look at prices), they have grown with their buyers and are now basically a collector only brand, and back in the post-war era they were for kids and grown-ups.  It is kind of sad, because the average kid can not afford the nicer Lionel (the $200 Berkshire sets etc, not the LionMaster) and the only kid sets are the basic ones like the $99 4-4-2s and yard switchers.

I have to disagree with you here.  Lionel has always been expensive.  Take a look at their postwar catalog prices after correcting for inflation, or compare it to the average wage.  I'm pretty sure you will find the current $200 Berkshire sets compare favorably.  You'll also find that Lionel was one of the more expensive toys around in the '50s..  But because there was no competition from video games and electronics, every boy wanted one.  My parents had to buy my Lionel used because they couldn't afford to buy new (but I had fun anyway!).  Lionel tried the disasterous Scout sets in the '50s to overcome this high price stigma.  At least the modern starter 4-4-2 sets are a cut above the Scout sets.  I don't buy the TMCC $300+ stuff, either.  But I do think $150-$200 is reasonable for a decent non-command locomotive.  And yes, my kids save their $$ and buy $180 MP3 players and $100 Game Boy sets, so it can be done at that price range for today's kids.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

[Anonymous]

Yes, actually most kids can afford it (thing is, most aren't interested). Personally, I can't. I earn about $60 a week and about $180 a month. Yes, a lot but: 1/3 goes to my insurance for my car, 1/3 goes to my college fund and I'm left with about $50-$60 give or take. I have recently got all my stuff used, from eBay. Last new stuff I got was in 2003. And I am not intrested as much in gaming, I do have an Xbox and have about 6 games. I usually only play racing games, and then only play with other people via Xbox Live. I also get my games used on Amazon, because a new release game is about $50. Once a month, I save $100 for Lionel, and then get some trains/cars/accessories/track (I recently got used accessories from eBay and thats my monthy Lionel), Last month, I gave a list for my dad to pick up four bumpers, two switches (manual) and some smoke fluid for my 4-4-2s and it cost me $80.

[fwright]

Yes, actually most kids can afford it (thing is, most aren't interested). Personally, I can't.

I understand where you are coming from.  My hobby budget is $50 per month, period.  The point in my post is that Lionel is not way out of line on their pricing for things like the Bershire, either historically or in comparison to other manufacturers.

What can you or I do?

1) Stay within our means.  Remember, it's pretty difficult to run more than two trains at a time, which means you only NEED 2 locomotives - even though we WANT many more.  My current roster (built over about 10 years) includes an Alaska SW, a Coast Guard NW, a 2026 steamer, an ACL Berkshire, and a Lionel Circus General.  Needing repairs is a postwar General (O27 version).  There is also an MTH trolley.  I really want an 8001 Jersey Central (or equivalent) to complement the set of Madison Blue Comet passenger cars I have, but can't afford it for the present.

2) Have fun with the low end stuff.  The Docksider is quite nice, as is the K-Line Plymouth switcher, Porter, and MP-15 switcher.  Stepping up into the $100-$200 range is the K-Line Pacific, Lionel small Hudson, and Lionel Berkshire, as well as some Lionel and Williams diesels.  None of them have command control, but I can't afford to go there and am content with horns, whistles, and bells and post-war transformers.

3) Build a little at a time.  I've never had bigger than a 4x8 layout due to moving lots.  I've have enough without buying more to have fun with a 4x8.  Adding a second 4x8 or expanding to 5x9 might occur when I settle down.  But I've built about 5 different layouts on that 4x8 table through the years, and have had fun with each.

Sounds like you've got a great plan already.  After you get a reasonable amount of track and accessories, you might try saving for a couple of months to get that special, more expensive locomotive.  Also, consider selling what you are not using to raise more money for what you want.  Remember the 2 operating locomotive rule!  EBay works both ways - buying and selling.

yours in training

Fred W 

[Anonymous]

Cool and I agree. Me and my Dad just planned our next trip. I am going to save cash for two months, and use 2/3 of my pay instead of the 1/3 bit. I'll go and spend the day at my Dad's office, do odd jobs and talk trains with my uncle (who also has a large amount of postwar Lionel), then go out with my parent's old camera and get snaps of the Metro-North diesels that pass regularly. At the end of theday around six, we'll head down to the hobby shop, and if and only if they have something I want or need, and if they don't I have $200 in my pocket for next month or when I get a good deal on something.

I agree with the selling idea, but I don't think I can take it. It is just too much, each one is different and holds another memory! Theres the Santa Fe 4-4-2 which was my first ever Lionel, the NYC FT diesel which is my best train (RailSounds etc) and my only passsenger train and the Pennsy 4-4-2 which is different looking from the Santa Fe, is my only Pennsylvania train and works much better then the SF 4-4-2.

[Anonymous]

Get a Polar Express set and buy a tender in whatever line you like. The Berkshire in the set is very nice and has no markings. Mine is paired up right now with an NYC tender and caboose. The PE cars are in the box and will come out for the holidays. The rest of the year I've got a nice NYC Berkshire set up.

[ChiefEagles]

I do not think Lionel is a collector based co.  I have lots of Lionel and run them all the time.  I have a new Lionel GP30 with Railsounds 5.0.  Don't think a collector would put it on the shelf.  Runs too good and sounds excellent.

Here are some hits to find some good eals on all brands.

http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/1961048701

http://svctrains.com/bboard2.cfm#top

 

Good luck.

[3railguy]

Sounds like most of your stuff is 027 sized and you're on a budget. MTH Railking or Atlas/Industrial Rail has some good choices for value priced trains that will work for you.

If you're looking to spend less than $99.00 on a Lionel engine, you should consider a small, common vintage postwar six driver steamer such as a 1666 or 2037. You can pick up decent ones for around $75.00. They are reliable, robust, and will outlast most $150.00 engines made today. Stay away from postwar scout engines. They are junk.

You can get early postwar Lionel Alco FA AA's with diecast frame, magnetraction, and horn for around $150.00 to $200.00. They are 027 sized, smooth running, good looking, and virtually indestructable.

[Anonymous]

Cool, the Berkshire-Polar Express idea I might have to try. I could order a NYC tender and could paint over the "Polar Express" logos on the cars.

Well, I can only run one train  at a time, and I have three. But what I want is to keep the two basic 4-4-2s, keep the fancier RailSounds NYC FT diesel and get a RailSounds NYC Berkshire, Mikado, Hudson or anything bigger then the small 4-4-2 switchers. But they are good for now, even though it is less interesting, I need track and accessories more then trains.