danrunner wrote:Some people who don't see a big problem with these are missing one point I'd like to make: if someone new to the hobby buys a ready-to-run set with a bad transformer, that may turn them off to our great hobby. We want newbies to have that train running right out of the box. A child's excitement and enthusiasm dashed because the train won't run right out of the box would probably make a lot of parents return the set to the store and buy something else.
You are absolutely right. No parent wants to see the disappointment on a child's face after seeing that their new Christmas present doesn't work. No one wants to have to wait a few weeks for the replacement of what is one of the most important part of the kit. And you definitely don't what to have to pull out any tools and have to fix it right yourself (not to mention that most Newbie's cant).
"You are absolutely right. No parent wants to see the disappointment on a child's face after seeing that their new Christmas present doesn't work. No one wants to have to wait a few weeks for the replacement of what is one of the most important part of the kit. And you definitely don't what to have to pull out any tools and have to fix it right yourself (not to mention that most Newbie's cant)."
I'll second that. A number of us in the UK and Europe have been banging on about the problems we have had with the CW-80 not working correctly on 50Hz power. My main issue is that the unit itself does say on the back 60Hz, however its not stated in the catalogue. If these problems are not going to be fixed along with Trainsounds and certain TMCC 50Hz issues the least that a manufacture should do is put a note in the literature. So newbie's are aware before they buy that the item needs a 60Hz power source. Finding out on Christmas morning should not be acceptable.
A lot of items for UK use are bought through online dealers so I would say that a dealer service bulletin should be sent stating that customers in countries with 50Hz power should be told when purchasing an item that has power frequency issues. This would also keep the UK dealer up to date.
Just my 2 cents,
Nick
For the record: The owner's manual for the CW-80 clearly states on the front cover* that the CW-80 is rated for an "INPUT: 120 VAC; 60 HZ ONLY." (Black emphasis mine.)
The manual can be read online and/or printed at the Lionel.com website. I strongly recommend that anyone considering purchasing this transformer read the manual cover-to-cover, word-for-word, and also research the archives on this forum and the others.
Parents should test any and all such equipment well prior to giving it as a present to a child.
As has been suggested repeatedly, Lionel should do more to inform prospective buyers of the limitations. Why they haven't moved more aggressively to mitigate this public relations disaster continues to baffle and disappoint me.
*This reference pertains to the 11/05 version of the owner's manual. The earlier version (2/03) contains a similar warning on p.3 with the admonition "Do not connect to any other power source."
Wolverine, I would agree with you on a lot of your points. As you state its a public relations disaster.
The problem is the average man in the street is probably unaware of the diffrence in power frequency from one country to the next. They would read the manual and assume that a 230-120V step-down transformer would do the job. It needs to state in the catalougue "Do not connect to 50Hz power sources, contact a European dealer for power supply information".
Added confusion here in the UK/Europe is that most model trains, people have had contact with run on DC.
Its the sucsess of Polar Express that has brought this issue to the fore in the UK. Last Christmas lots of these sets found their way to the UK. Now the CW-80 can be replaced by a UK power supply as polar just has a air whistle. However such was the demand that the UK Lionel dealer ran out of power supplies!
Now older two part power supplies with the wall wart just needed the wart replacing with a UK version. After CW-80 introduction the whole thing needs to be replaced with a MTH control unit and a UK wall wart. However your better off getting a DC power supply and a Pure Sine Inverter as this costs around the same and solves problems with TMCC and Trainsounds.
Its the UK dealer and the Lionel Collectors Club UK that have had most of the phone calls and emails from unhappy buyers.
Whats frustrating is that this is all set to happen again this Christmas!
It would be nice to have a positive response from Lionel and show some support for their European dealers and customers.
Bob Nelson
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