What Could Have Been: Underground Ruins

[wallyworld]

 

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/05/24/loc_radel24.html

[MOJAX]

Back in the late 70’s I remember hearing about some never used subway in Cincinnati, but I thought it wan an urban legend.

[wallyworld]

I have always been fascinated by the idea of underground ruins, particularly when combined with railroads. I have been following the unearthing of the 19th century train out East that has long since buried in a tunnel collapse....another great and probably the largest set of unused tunnels are under Chicago streets...

http://users.ameritech.net/chicagotunnel/tunnel1.html

 

[artpeterson]

Hi - I wouldn't characterize the Chicago Freight Tunnels in the same way as the Cincinnati subway.  Those freight tunnels were used for a lot of years, before subway construction, changes in technology (not using coal to heat buildings, etc.) and floods superseded or interrupted their use.  Also, remember that the Chicago freight tunnels are comparatively small profile, even against the fairly small CTA rapid transit car, so the usefulness of those tunnels is very limited.  Art 

[wallyworld]

I wasn't aware of the notion that I did characterize them as similar, outside of the fact they are both tunnels meant for steel wheels on rail. Someone said that there were some CL&E cars as part of the first Red Devil order that were intended for subway service...I don't know if that is true or not. I can remember at one point there was a rather outlandish idea that predated the river flood, that somehow the Chicago Freight Tunnels would be used in a people mover system, or at minimum, a walkway which also a pretty silly idea. I often wondered what, if anything, remains of the Milwaukee subway built by the TMERL as a prelude to an improved city entry. I have photos of Speedrail cars climbing up a trestle to street level, to bypass the portals of this subway to nowhere. 

[cooltech]

Great thread! Tks. for the history lesson.

cooltech

[spikejones52002]

The Chicago freight tunnels were used to hall coal in and cinders out.

No truck delivers were made in Chicago at the atime. Everything was shipped through the tunnels.

The tunnels were wet but never flodded until that pylon punched through it.

Now they carry all electrical power and communication cables and light guide around the downtown area.
Does anyone else remember when streetcars would go under the Chicago river to get in and out of the Loop. 

[vsmith]

I hate to say this, but is that city run by morons?  

10 miles done, $13M buck's ?????  

PEANUTS!  

L.A. = current costs for proposed subway? $300M per mile

And yet this still sits there , the chicken little city not utilizing an almost resource.

Sorry but I have NO sypathy....Cincinatti, suffer in your irrelevence.

[Trainmaster.Curt]

Reminds me of that movie Ghostbusters II when they were in an abandoned underground tunnel, and then a Ghost Train comes out of nowhere. Creepy

[markn]

For more info go to www.cincinnati-transit.net -great photos/stories about all of Cincy's Bridges/tunnels/railroads/highways etc

[erikem]

Someone said that there were some CL&E cars as part of the first Red Devil order that were intended for subway service.

That someone was correct - this was covered in Keenan's book on the C&LE. Use of the subway by the C&LE may have enabled the Cinnci-Dayton portion to last to WW2 and beyond.

There's an "Images of America" book written about the Cinnci subway system. 

[Anonymous]

Heh.

Wait until you learn about them Monorails.

[Kevin C. Smith]

I often wondered what, if anything, remains of the Milwaukee subway built by the TMERL as a prelude to an improved city entry. I have photos of Speedrail cars climbing up a trestle to street level, to bypass the portals of this subway to nowhere. 

Ah ha! So it did exist! I thought I saw a reference to such a thing some years ago and I have tried to find information about it-but came up empty so many times that I thought I had mistaken or imagined it. Whereabouts did it run? It'll be a good excuse to poke around the city this summer sometime.

[kevikens]

You might want to check out the story of the underground train tunnel located under Atlantic Ave. in Brooklyn, NY. Constructed in the 1840's it was abandoned and only uncovered recently. You can take a tour and marvel at the brick lined barrel vaults. Strangest of all the trains operated for several years with steam locomotives employing air shafts every so many hundred yards. Quite a hidden sight for over a hundred years.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Does anyone else remember when streetcars would go under the Chicago river to get in and out of the Loop. 

There were three streetcar tunnels under the Chicago River, at La Salle, Washington and just north of Van Buren.  By the 1930's, they were for emergency use only.

[wallyworld]

I often wondered what, if anything, remains of the Milwaukee subway built by the TMERL as a prelude to an improved city entry. I have photos of Speedrail cars climbing up a trestle to street level, to bypass the portals of this subway to nowhere. 

Ah ha! So it did exist! I thought I saw a reference to such a thing some years ago and I have tried to find information about it-but came up empty so many times that I thought I had mistaken or imagined it. Whereabouts did it run? It'll be a good excuse to poke around the city this summer sometime.

I dont know if the portal is still accessible. The 8th Street Subway yards are underneath the expressway.The "temporary" ramp or trestle to bypass the portal and bring the cars up to street level was near 8th and Hibernia. The actual entry onto street trackage between 7th and 8th on Clybourn..it was meant to run the some five blocks to the Public Service Building, which I believe is still standing.hope this helps..this is all I know...as to it's whereabouts...

[wallyworld]

You might want to check out the story of the underground train tunnel located under Atlantic Ave. in Brooklyn, NY. Constructed in the 1840's it was abandoned and only uncovered recently. You can take a tour and marvel at the brick lined barrel vaults. Strangest of all the trains operated for several years with steam locomotives employing air shafts every so many hundred yards. Quite a hidden sight for over a hundred years.

I did ..thanks..looks like they are in excellent shape...

[wallyworld]

Anybody know the status of Illinois Terminal's subway in St Louis and the fate of it's terminal building..?

 http://www.davesrailpix.com/it/htm/it013.htm

 

[Kevin C. Smith]

I dont know if the portal is still accessible. The 8th Street Subway yards are underneath the expressway.The "temporary" ramp or trestle to bypass the portal and bring the cars up to street level was near 8th and Hibernia. The actual entry onto street trackage between 7th and 8th on Clybourn..it was meant to run the some five blocks to the Public Service Building, which I believe is still standing.hope this helps..this is all I know...as to it's whereabouts...

Hmmm. Sounds like all that would have been torn out for freeway construction (surprise...) The Public Service Building is still there, the main offices of WE Energies. The exterior is in beautiful condition and you can observe some of the upper floor details from the parking ramp across the street.

[wallyworld]

There is a possibility it exists how accessible it is, if it all..is beyond me, but...looking at photographs I have in a book about Speedrail..they were still "detouring around the portal.. or more accurately above it..It appears to be some distance from the site of the present expressway unless an exit\on ramp is placed on the site....so is it intact? Used for another purpose? I am sure someone knows..perhaps Milwaukee utility maps would be helpful...a mystery...if you ever find out...let me know...