Shovel Nose

[BigJim]

Gotta love that shovel nose.

I saw this reference to a F unit on another thread as "Shovel Nose". That's a daggone good name for 'em. Just the other night I saw the F unit referred to as "bulldog" and about threw up. Where in the heck did that come from? Is it another David Morgan thing?

And "Shark nose"! OK people, everyone raise their hands, How many of you have ever seen with your own eyes a shark that swam perpendicular? Come on, don't be shy, raise your hands. I DIDN'T THINK SO!

I've seen the PRR T1 referred to as "Shark Nose"! Looks more like a WWII U.S. Fleet Sub to me.

[Lost World]

Shovel is quite appropriate for the F-7.  Plain, lame, and unremarkable also come to mind.  "Bulldog" is completely inappropriate, and used by Don Ball in Portrait of the Rails to describe the nose on an ICRR E-7, which makes it a completely unforgivable sin, for everything the F's lacked in length, lines and overall symetry the E's made up for.

When I think "Bulldog", I think Baldwin AS-616, or FM Trainmaster.  Now those were Bulldogs!

[agentatascadero]

Gentlemen, "shovel nose" most properly applies to the earliest Burlington Zephyr units, from the bottom of the pilot to the roofline was a slanted straight line.  "Bulldog" nose, and I think it was DPM who coined the phrase, applies to all F units, and E 7- 9 models.  The earlier E's had a more severe slant to the nose, and to many observers of the time, were much more attractive than was the bulldog, certainly the more slanted nose appeared far more racy. Some early steam streamlining jobs had the same shovel nose look up front on the smokebox not a pretty sight, I can assure you.   Sharknose was also mentioned, and  applies to a SPECIFIC model of Baldwin cab units, on these, the slant was the reverse of the EMD's, slanting backwards from the headlight down to the pilot.  Hope this helps, AA

[BigJim]

FM Trainmaster...A definite BULLDOG!!!

[Texas Chief]

Actually, the term "Shovelnose" goes back further than the "Zephyr" to the NYC Vanderbilt and the Mil. Hiawatha, both steam engines. And I don't believe the name "Bulldog" came about untill the E7's, after EMD got rid of the slant. If you take a good look at these engines, I think you'll find the titles apply very well.

Dick

Texas Chief

[Lost World]

True enough, just about anything with that rounded sort of nose could be referred to as shovel nosed, as long as some angle of slant is put on it.  (With no angle at all it would look like an Alco PA/FA.)  And while it's fact that the later E units had less of a slant on the nose, the basic shape of the front end remained the same; never flat enough to be referred to as "Bulldog" IMHO.