Prison Cars????

7009 views
27 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Prison Cars????
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 12:52 AM
Does anyone have anny info or pictures of the prison cars that were used before the jet age to transport criminals across the country?I have only found a couple of very vague mentions on the net.
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Prison Cars????
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 12:52 AM
Does anyone have anny info or pictures of the prison cars that were used before the jet age to transport criminals across the country?I have only found a couple of very vague mentions on the net.
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 3:44 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by barbarosa

Does anyone have anny info or pictures of the prison cars that were used before the jet age to transport criminals across the country?I have only found a couple of very vague mentions on the net.


I don't know about the prison cars, however, there is an Army Guard car at Pine Bluff . I believe it was assigned to trains and the Army kept some soldiers in this car to guard the train or items being carried by the train. Anyway, next time I go down I will take some pics of it and other items and make them available for all to see.
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 3:44 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by barbarosa

Does anyone have anny info or pictures of the prison cars that were used before the jet age to transport criminals across the country?I have only found a couple of very vague mentions on the net.


I don't know about the prison cars, however, there is an Army Guard car at Pine Bluff . I believe it was assigned to trains and the Army kept some soldiers in this car to guard the train or items being carried by the train. Anyway, next time I go down I will take some pics of it and other items and make them available for all to see.
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: US
  • 1,522 posts
Posted by AltonFan on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 10:43 AM
I believe there is a photo of one such car in either Some Classic Trains or More Classic Trains.

What about cars used by the military to transport Axis POWs during World War II?

Dan

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: US
  • 1,522 posts
Posted by AltonFan on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 10:43 AM
I believe there is a photo of one such car in either Some Classic Trains or More Classic Trains.

What about cars used by the military to transport Axis POWs during World War II?

Dan

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:42 AM
I can find plenty of info on the military stuff,but nothing on the cars used by US law enforcement.I remember a long time ago i saw in a magazine pictures of a mobster being put aboard a special barred window prison coach.I would assume that all of the Class 1 roads had at least one such car but it seems impossible now to track one down.Thanks for your help guys.Don
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:42 AM
I can find plenty of info on the military stuff,but nothing on the cars used by US law enforcement.I remember a long time ago i saw in a magazine pictures of a mobster being put aboard a special barred window prison coach.I would assume that all of the Class 1 roads had at least one such car but it seems impossible now to track one down.Thanks for your help guys.Don
  • Member since
    August, 2002
  • From: Corpus Christi, Texas
  • 2,377 posts
Posted by leighant on Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:34 AM
Not aware of prototype. I once dreamed up idea of a freelance prison caboose with bars on the windows and the cupola used as a guard tower.
  • Member since
    August, 2002
  • From: Corpus Christi, Texas
  • 2,377 posts
Posted by leighant on Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:34 AM
Not aware of prototype. I once dreamed up idea of a freelance prison caboose with bars on the windows and the cupola used as a guard tower.
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: US
  • 1,522 posts
Posted by AltonFan on Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:59 AM
I tend to think the prison car was only used to transfer groups of prisoners between federal prisons. (The most notorious event being the transfer of prisoners from various federal prisons to the newly built Alcatraz back in the 1920s.) Individual prisoners, especially those being taken to state prisons by local law enforcement, were generally escorted by one or two officers on regularly scheduled passenger trains.

Dan

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: US
  • 1,522 posts
Posted by AltonFan on Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:59 AM
I tend to think the prison car was only used to transfer groups of prisoners between federal prisons. (The most notorious event being the transfer of prisoners from various federal prisons to the newly built Alcatraz back in the 1920s.) Individual prisoners, especially those being taken to state prisons by local law enforcement, were generally escorted by one or two officers on regularly scheduled passenger trains.

Dan

  • Member since
    August, 2002
  • From: Memory Lane, on the sunny side of the street.
  • 737 posts
Posted by ironhorseman on Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:46 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by AltonFan


What about cars used by the military to transport Axis POWs during World War II?


I remember seeing an interesting piece on the History Channel not too long ago about Nazi POW officers in Texas (I think it was Texas). It was just a dramatization but the coach cars they rode on looked like oridanry passenger cars. Interestingly enough while they were at a station stop the POW were singing a song in German but the tune was familar to American ears (I can't remember the name of the song). It was said that the citizens at the station heard this singing and begain giving these POWs food through the windows, well aware of the fact these were Nazi POWs.

I be darned if I can remember the name of the program this was on, the History Channel runs so many WWII programs, but that's beside the point.

I'm criminal justice major and we've never talked about prisoner transport in all my classes. We usually tackle things like social issues and court procedures. Learning how to be a police officer or corrections officer comes with the training only after a person gets accepted for that job. I'll tap my resources and see what I can find.

bbaw - (be back after while)

yad sdrawkcab s'ti

  • Member since
    August, 2002
  • From: Memory Lane, on the sunny side of the street.
  • 737 posts
Posted by ironhorseman on Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:46 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by AltonFan


What about cars used by the military to transport Axis POWs during World War II?


I remember seeing an interesting piece on the History Channel not too long ago about Nazi POW officers in Texas (I think it was Texas). It was just a dramatization but the coach cars they rode on looked like oridanry passenger cars. Interestingly enough while they were at a station stop the POW were singing a song in German but the tune was familar to American ears (I can't remember the name of the song). It was said that the citizens at the station heard this singing and begain giving these POWs food through the windows, well aware of the fact these were Nazi POWs.

I be darned if I can remember the name of the program this was on, the History Channel runs so many WWII programs, but that's beside the point.

I'm criminal justice major and we've never talked about prisoner transport in all my classes. We usually tackle things like social issues and court procedures. Learning how to be a police officer or corrections officer comes with the training only after a person gets accepted for that job. I'll tap my resources and see what I can find.

bbaw - (be back after while)

yad sdrawkcab s'ti

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: US
  • 1,522 posts
Posted by AltonFan on Thursday, September 11, 2003 2:44 PM
QUOTE: Interestingly enough while they were at a station stop the POW were singing a song in German but the tune was familar to American ears...


If it wasn't the Christmas carol "Silent Night", it was probably "Lili Marlene", a song popular with soldiers on both sides since World War I.

Of course, there was also a large German-speaking community in Texas that existed since before the Civil War, which opens up a lot of other possibilities.

Sorry about the tangent.

Dan

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: US
  • 1,522 posts
Posted by AltonFan on Thursday, September 11, 2003 2:44 PM
QUOTE: Interestingly enough while they were at a station stop the POW were singing a song in German but the tune was familar to American ears...


If it wasn't the Christmas carol "Silent Night", it was probably "Lili Marlene", a song popular with soldiers on both sides since World War I.

Of course, there was also a large German-speaking community in Texas that existed since before the Civil War, which opens up a lot of other possibilities.

Sorry about the tangent.

Dan

  • Member since
    April, 2002
  • From: Nashville TN
  • 1,306 posts
Posted by Wdlgln005 on Thursday, September 11, 2003 9:38 PM
We probably need to see the begining episode of the fugitive. The "prison car" may have been an old coach or combine. If I Remember correct, the coach derailed & that is how a prisoner could have escaped. It would be too harsh & dangerous to connect handcuffs or leg irons to the chair?
Glenn Woodle
  • Member since
    April, 2002
  • From: Nashville TN
  • 1,306 posts
Posted by Wdlgln005 on Thursday, September 11, 2003 9:38 PM
We probably need to see the begining episode of the fugitive. The "prison car" may have been an old coach or combine. If I Remember correct, the coach derailed & that is how a prisoner could have escaped. It would be too harsh & dangerous to connect handcuffs or leg irons to the chair?
Glenn Woodle
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:45 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by barbarosa

Does anyone have anny info or pictures of the prison cars that were used before the jet age to transport criminals across the country?I have only found a couple of very vague mentions on the net.


Barbarosa, I went to the Pine Bluff Muesum today and took pics of the guard car. It may not be exactly what you are looking for but it is interesting. I just dropped off the pics at Walgreens about 30 minutes ago. This weekend I will have them back and can see about getting them to those people who might like to see them. Anyone interested in seeing them drop me an email and I will email the pics to you.
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:45 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by barbarosa

Does anyone have anny info or pictures of the prison cars that were used before the jet age to transport criminals across the country?I have only found a couple of very vague mentions on the net.


Barbarosa, I went to the Pine Bluff Muesum today and took pics of the guard car. It may not be exactly what you are looking for but it is interesting. I just dropped off the pics at Walgreens about 30 minutes ago. This weekend I will have them back and can see about getting them to those people who might like to see them. Anyone interested in seeing them drop me an email and I will email the pics to you.
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:51 AM
Jim,it sounds interesting to me,please send a pic or two when you get them back.Thanks,Don
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 12:51 AM
Jim,it sounds interesting to me,please send a pic or two when you get them back.Thanks,Don
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 21, 2003 10:30 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by barbarosa

Does anyone have anny info or pictures of the prison cars that were used before the jet age to transport criminals across the country?I have only found a couple of very vague mentions on the net.


Barbarosa, I went to the Pine Bluff Muesum today and took pics of the guard car. It may not be exactly what you are looking for but it is interesting. I just dropped off the pics at Walgreens about 30 minutes ago. This weekend I will have them back and can see about getting them to those people who might like to see them. Anyone interested in seeing them drop me an email and I will email the pics to you.


I have the Guard pics back and on disk. Anyone wanting to see them just send me the email addres you want them emailed to.

Thanks,
Jim
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 21, 2003 10:30 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by barbarosa

Does anyone have anny info or pictures of the prison cars that were used before the jet age to transport criminals across the country?I have only found a couple of very vague mentions on the net.


Barbarosa, I went to the Pine Bluff Muesum today and took pics of the guard car. It may not be exactly what you are looking for but it is interesting. I just dropped off the pics at Walgreens about 30 minutes ago. This weekend I will have them back and can see about getting them to those people who might like to see them. Anyone interested in seeing them drop me an email and I will email the pics to you.


I have the Guard pics back and on disk. Anyone wanting to see them just send me the email addres you want them emailed to.

Thanks,
Jim
  • Member since
    January, 2002
  • 3,675 posts
Posted by M636C on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:47 PM
There were prison cars used in Australia, and these lasted until the 1960s, or at least two of them did. These were wooden cars about forty feet long with a central entrance to guards accommodation. The prisoners travelled on longitudinal seats arranged on each side, with bars separating the "cells" from a central Aisle used by the guards. There were very basic toilets at the end of the car in each cell, so the prisoners did not have to leave the cell.

I came across one of these cars in about 1969, unlocked, and I took some photos of fellow railfans in the "cells" with the doors closed (but not locked). I'd be happy to give the photographs to anyone interested, although these are probably not like US cars.
  • Member since
    January, 2002
  • 3,675 posts
Posted by M636C on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:47 PM
There were prison cars used in Australia, and these lasted until the 1960s, or at least two of them did. These were wooden cars about forty feet long with a central entrance to guards accommodation. The prisoners travelled on longitudinal seats arranged on each side, with bars separating the "cells" from a central Aisle used by the guards. There were very basic toilets at the end of the car in each cell, so the prisoners did not have to leave the cell.

I came across one of these cars in about 1969, unlocked, and I took some photos of fellow railfans in the "cells" with the doors closed (but not locked). I'd be happy to give the photographs to anyone interested, although these are probably not like US cars.
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:20 AM
M636C

Good screenname, must be a fellow Alco fan. [:)]

You don't list an email address so no one has any way to contact you. I always enjoy sending AND receiving pics. Feel free to send them to me. You might also want to consider listing an email address so people could share pics and emails with you. [;)]
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:20 AM
M636C

Good screenname, must be a fellow Alco fan. [:)]

You don't list an email address so no one has any way to contact you. I always enjoy sending AND receiving pics. Feel free to send them to me. You might also want to consider listing an email address so people could share pics and emails with you. [;)]
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, October 05, 2003 5:55 PM
I retired from the SP and never heard of them until 2 years ago. At that time I met a former baggage handler that worked for the SP for a couple of years in the early 1950's at Oakland. That was the most impressive thing he remembered from his work, prison cars coming into the SP mole (train / ferry station) at Oakland, presumably with "guests" destined for nearby Alcatraz. I think these things were pretty rare out west.
  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • 302,134 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, October 05, 2003 5:55 PM
I retired from the SP and never heard of them until 2 years ago. At that time I met a former baggage handler that worked for the SP for a couple of years in the early 1950's at Oakland. That was the most impressive thing he remembered from his work, prison cars coming into the SP mole (train / ferry station) at Oakland, presumably with "guests" destined for nearby Alcatraz. I think these things were pretty rare out west.

SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP

Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter