Gulf Wind in Florida, 40s-50s

[Anonymous]

Hi all, I posted this in the MR prototype forum but haven't gotten a response, so thought I'd try it here. I'm really interested in modeling the Gulf Wind passenger train jointly run by the L&N and Seaboard Air Line between New Orleans and Jacksonville. I'm particularly interested in modeling the Pensacola - Tallahassee portion, including the transfer between the two railroads at Chattahoochee, in the late 40s or early 50s. I would really appreciate any information or weblinks anyone could provide, particularly regarding the engines each railroad used, whether they ran joint pools, etc. I have some basic information from timetables on the types of passenger cars so that's a start.

[passengerfan]

During the late forties and early fifties L&N and SAL were both using Pacifics on the Gulf Wind. Diesels were the power of choice after about 1954. Either FP7 or E units operated at the head of the Gulf Wind.

Passenger cars during this period were a mixture of heavyweights and lightweights.
Coaches were refurbished heavyweights with reclining seats. Either L&N or SAL cars were used.

Dining cars were also 36 seat heavyweights with each road supplying one.

The 6-Section 6-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping cars were lightweights and were L&N PINE suffix cars.

The 10-Section Buffet Lounge Observations were SAL heavyweights COLUMBIA BRIDGE and COLUMBIA LAKE

Hope this information helps.

TTFN Al

[Anonymous]

Thank you! That's exactly the type of information I was looking for. I was really hoping to run a nice streamline passenger train behind some E units, looks like I'll have to move my setting to 1954 if I really want to do that. Hmmm, now to see when they stopped running steam on that division (I want my cake and eat it too!).

[Wdlgln005]

Get L&N Passenger Trains, The Pan-American Era, by Charles Castner. It includes a great section on how to model L&N's passenger cars of the era. In the 40's & 50's, you have the old heavyweights & new lightweight stream liners coming on. The Pan was a heavyweight pulled by steel cars in the 1920's. Short trains may be pulled by heavy Pacifics, while longer trains will require Mountains. or Berkshires.

L&N ordered 16 E6's in 1941, just before the war began, & went into service in 1942.

[Anonymous]

In discussing the Gulf Wind, don't forget the beauttiful  rouned end 5 double bedroom Observation lounge it received when two of those cars were no longer needed by the Crescent. They were orignally on the pre-Amtrak Crescent from NY to NOL, but were cut back from Washington to ATL. Thus, those two spares ran on the rear of  the Gulf Wind.

[daveklepper]

I rode the Gulf Wind several times 1959 - 1969.   We always had the round-end observation, but on occasion a Seabord car substituted for the regularly-assigned L&N cars.   (Possibly during this period one of each railroad was assigned.)  On many occasion only one sleeper was carried, even thougth this was often sold-out.  Most of the time during this period, it was an all lightweight train, but often just the dining car was a modernized heavyweight (L&N or SAL).  Toward the end of this period, the equipment of the Crescent was added at Flomington (Sp?) and I think the two unit Crescent power took the train into New Orleans.  The switching at Flomington kept the round-end obs from Jacksonville on the rear, and I do not remember which diner ran through, but there definitely was still breakfast served going into New Orleans.   I liked the train and thought the crews helpful.  It had some of the cameraderie and spirit I later noted on the Rio Grande Zephyr.  I don't remember anything except E units as power during this period.

[Anonymous]

Flomaton  is the name of the town in Alabama you are referring to.

T

[daveklepper]

Thanks!   I needed that correction and will try to remember it!

[Anonymous]

What I don't know is how it is pronounced. Is it FLOW-matan or is it FLAH maton?

Also it varied through the years what train the Gulf Wind was attached to in and out of New Orleans. At one time the Piedmont Limited and Pan American joined in Montogmery, and added the Gbulf Wind at Flomaton .heading south to New Orleans.

Northbound for years it went out on the Piedmont Limited about 5:30 p..m. Later on, I think it went out  northbound combined with the Pan American and the Crescent.at 9 p.m.For years the Crescent left NOL at   11 p.m. but later on as things slowed down and trains had to merge more..it began combining with the Pan American. ..

Don't think the Gulf Wind   ever combined with the Crescent southbound, as that train had an afternoon arrival inito NOL. about 4 p.m .

The diner at the western end of the journey was a Mobile to New Orleans diner, not distincvie to any one of the trains it served.  

[rtstasiak]

I used to live in Tallahassee in the 1980s and 1990s and did a lot of trainwatching and general nosing around in Chattahoochee.  My pictures, clippings, and notes from that period are still in storage, but here's a few nuggets.

Chattahoochee supported passenger and freight interchange in a very small space for a yard and passing track.  Seaboard Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, Appalachicola Northern, and the Louisville and Nashville all crowded into River Yard (may need to check that name).   The 'River' is the Appalachicola, west of town and crossed by a bascule bridge and controlled by the Jim Woodruff Dam and Locks.  The Appalachicola is also the boundary between the Eastern and Central Time Zones, just to make life a bit more interesting.  I believe that Schaumberg had an editorial about all this in '84 or '85 RMC.

Unlike most of Florida, the Pensacola to Jacksonville 'panhandle' is nice rolling hills--unless you are an engineer on the wrong end of the gravity well.  Peaks in the track chart are in Crestview and Tallahassee.  The ruling grade east of Chattahoochie is right through the Tallahassee Central Business District and the Capitol Complex.  Helpers are not officially assisgned, but the yard engines were known to assist eastbound freights that lost their footing.  I had a ringside seat at work and home.

In the 40s and 50s, as in diesel days, the grades were punishing.  My understanding is that pax trains were overpowered, but could still use some help now and then.  Freights (per my friend's dad) could be loaded with power, split into sections, or be given a push, or doubled.   I never really found out how frequent these events were in the old days, but in the Seaboard System era, those GP-16s (or whatever they were called) got in back to push, usually 2 at a time.

BTW, I left the area because I got homesick for Pennsylvania and New York.  Just in case you wondered, it does freeze in Tallahassee, and when it snowed 2-1/2 inches in December of 1989, there was a White Christmas and transportation mayhem.  Have fun!

[daveklepper]

I am not sure about "never" but you may be correct and my memory may be confusing the Piedmont Limited with the Crescent as making "the extra long train" that I twice observed going into New Orleans.   I did also once ride the Piedmont from Charlotte to N. O.

[Anonymous]

I have a particular memory of that extra long train, one day in 1969, I believe.  I had boarded the Pan American  in Nashville, At Montgomery it had combined  with the Piedmont Limited. At Flomaton  it  combiined with the Gulf Wind. Amazingly, all three trains came together and arrived on time, which was 8:55 at that poiint in L&N history.

But---anyway ---what is memorable about it is that Hurricane Camille  arrived that same day. Yep, I almost more or less rode the train into the hurricane. Actually Camille spared NOL a direct hit.

But it still messed things  up for awhile  thereafter.

[daveklepper]

I should have searched my memory a little more carefully.   Of course, the Crescent was essentially overnight Washington - Atlanta and then day through Montgomery to NO, where the Piedmont was day to Atlanta and then overnigiht to NO.  Rode the Crescent more frequently.  So of course you are right, it must have always been the Piedmont and then also the PA that made up the long train with Gulf Wind at the rear.   Ah for those Southern Railway grits in their diner with sunny side up.

[rji2]

The correct pronunciation here in Alabama is FLOW-ma-ton.  I believe the L&N used FP7's on the Gulf Wind and could use GP7's w/ steam generators if no FP7 was available.

[daveklepper]

I may hve seen the FP-7's but I am fairly certain I did not see a road-switcher when leaving the train at New Orleans.   That does not mean they were never used however!   The Seabord power was usually E-units.