Do any of your old timers remember the railroad watch debates?

[Anonymous]

As I've posted in a few other locations, my family were railroaders in the Portsmouth Ohio yards of the N&W back in the day. One of the things I'll always remember from barber shop visits were old retired railroad men debating the qualities of their particular brand pocket watch. Some men were hard core Elgin owners, while others were Hamilton. There were a few Illinois owners dispersed among the debates, but these were pretty much the two camps of contention. I even heard of fist fights breaking out at the old railroad YMCA in New Boston (at the Portsmouth terminal) over this very topic back when Portsmouth was the crew change town of the Scioto Division.

Folks were either Chevy, Ford, or Mopar lovers when it came to that debate, but you didn't cross that line about another man's watch of choice in the railroad business. My folks were Elgin owners, by the way. [;)]

I was curious if anyone else came across this in their home town recollections.

Regards! Michaelson

[Anonymous]

I guess not then.[(-D]

Maybe it was a Scioto Division thing. [;)]

Regards! Michaelson

[Philcal]

My Grandfather was employed by the Pacific Electric in Freight Rates and Claims. He was the first to admit this wasn't an operations job, but he still favored a Hamilton watch. I recall him pulling it from his pocket often. Like the PE, my Grandfather ran on time.

[rogruth]

I'm from Bellaire , Ohio and remember this type of discussion , probably at the barber shop or pool room. Never did find out which was better .

[wallyworld]

I can remember my uncle who worked for SP as a fireman at one time, taking about watch certification, which had to be done so often.I wonder when this all stopped?

[wjstix]

It's amazing to recall how much these watches cost !! It wasn't uncommon for a new employee to have to get a loan to buy one, then had to go to one of the approved watch repair stores every so many months to have the watch inspected.

Reminded me of the story my Dad told me of when he was a telegrapher for Postal Telegraph (a competitor of Western Union) in Galesburg Illinois. One of his jobs in the morning was to wind and set their big grandfather clock. It ran a little fast or slow so he would set the time based on his watch. One day, don't know if there had been a power outage overnight or what, but within five minutes both the Burlington and Santa Fe offices called to get the correct time from him, he looked at the big clock and told them. It occured to him later that Galesburg was a division point for both railroads, and stations from other towns nearby were probably calling their respective HQ's in Galesburg to get the time...meaning a good portion of north central Illinois was running based on my Dad's watch !!

[CROOPS]

My grandfather,father and two of his brothers all worked for the B&O in the Chicago area,they all had Hamilton"s,I still remember going with my father to a jeweler in a town called Blue Island to have his pocket watch tested. I guess that's where my fasination of clocks started. I still have my father's and grandfather's pocket watches My father would have been 93 this year.

[AltonFan]

I remember reading somewhere, maybe a railroad timetable or the GM&O rulebook, that once a day, the railroad would send a telegraph message over the line's telegraph system setting standard time. Can anybody speak to this?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AltonFan

I remember reading somewhere, maybe a railroad timetable or the GM&O rulebook, that once a day, the railroad would send a telegraph message over the line's telegraph system setting standard time. Can anybody speak to this?

Western Union was contracted to do this for many railroads, and the 'timing message' was usually sent at noon to those individuals resposible for the master clocks.

Regards! Michaelson

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

I can remember my uncle who worked for SP as a fireman at one time, taking about watch certification, which had to be done so often.I wonder when this all stopped?

I would guess it came to an end when digital watches were accepted for RR use - not sure when that was, but when you can buy something for a few $ that will keep perfect time people won't bother paying considerably more for a mechanical watch that needs servicing. Pity really - I have a mechanical wristwatch (Russian-made Vostok, sourced through ebay) and while it sometimes gets a little wayward I rather like not having to buy batteries.

[jeffhergert]

I think the loosening of watch standards coincided with the phaseout of time table and train order rules, plus changes in other operating rules. The time element is not as important as it once was.

Authorities to occupy the main track like Track and Time, Track Permits, and sometimes, Track Warrants have expiration times. Under the old rules, pre-GCOR, if you weren't clear of the main track when your authority expired, you had to provide flag protection against trains unless you were able to talk to the dispatcher (or control operator in some cases) to extend the time. Now, that section of track you hold your authority on is yours until you report clear. Even if you go past the expiration time of your authority, no one else will be allowed in those limits until you have reported that you are in the clear. Your still supposed to get an extension if you need more time, but if you can't or don't, about the worst thing that will happen is you'll get chewed out by the dispatcher.
Jeff

[Anonymous]

I hired on to the UP in the summer of '77 as a yard clerk and promptly went out and bought a new (just out on the market type of 'new') Seiko quartz "Railroad Approved" watch. The Assistant Terminal Superintendent told me not to wear it until the UP had officially approved the new Seikos. He said I could wear a Timex but not a "yet-to-be company approved" watch marked "railroad approved". They were officially approved by UP with in a week. Later that summer I qualified on the "Chief Clerk" job, which included writing "Form 19" train orders. I was the only guy in the office that could wear a wristwatch while working the "Chief's" job, as I was the only one with a "Railroad Approved" watch. If you showed up for the "Chief's" job with a non-approved watch in your possession you had to put it in your desk drawer till you went home. Even with an "approved" one I was required by railroad rules and Federal Law to set mine to the standard clock in the office before sitting down at the desk. At one time men's lives depended on the accuracy of those watches and those old rules were still around!

[Anonymous]

Also…when I was on the UP (started in 1977) the railroad monitored the Radio - WWV, National Bureau Of Standards time broadcast of the Bureau's "Atomic Clock" (2.5 , 5, 10 &15 megahertz , the same one the US Navy navigates by) and put it on a company phone extension. We'd dial a 4-digit company phone number and you'd hear the "Atomic Clock" ticking and then the "at the tone the time will be…" message as the clock changed from 59 seconds to a new minute, every minute. By '77, wherever there was a Standard Clock on the UP, whoever was in charge of setting the clock everyday dialed that number and set the Standard Clock in that office. In the yard office it was the "Chief Clerk". WWV has a pretty impressive "stick farm" in Ft. Collins, CO. Eight antennas in a circle covering a couple of hundred acres. You can pick up WWV clear around the globe.. ( I hear tell the Prairie Dogs on that land glow in the dark ! …Somebody once told me they were all sterile too, but there's too many of them for that to be true, never been by there at night to check out the glow factor !)

[Anonymous]

If anyone wants to hear that timeclock (I was requred to set my watch daily for other reasons when I worked for Goodyear Atomic Corp. in Piketon, Oh, back in the 70's), the phone number is 303-499-7111.....but you can purchase a radio signal clock at any Radio Shack for about 20 bucks and receive the exact same time from signal as the phone call.
For that particular job I just mentioned, I wore my Accutron 214 Railroad approved wristie, and still have it to this day, though I wear my railroad pocket watches on a regular basis now at the job I currently work.

Regards! Michaelson

[Anonymous]

Michaelson, Did you leave that Accutron in the kitchen at night when you went to bed??? That same Asst. Super. Told me he HAD to do that with his Accutron. If he put it on the nightstand he could hear that high-pitched hum through his pillow !! That tuning fork frequency traveled through the nightstand, through the floor up through the bed and he could hear it audibly enough that it kept him awake at night. Other than that he loved the watch. I have a beautiful old Hamilton from the 20s but it wouldn't pass inspection. Looking back, I wish I'd put a hundred bucks into it to get it up to snuff so I could say I carried it back then. ...thanks for that number too.

[Anonymous]

LOL!! Actually, my wife HATED that thing when we were dating. I could hear it, sure, but apparently that 'whistle' drove her nuts, so I wore a pocket watch when we went out on dates. After we were married, you couldn't hear it from the dresser drawer.

As we've aged, I'm thinking our hearing is getting worse (we've been married 30 years as of May 22nd), as I now have a shelf next to our bed that has several cup hooks that I hang the watches I'm rotating in wear, and the Accutron hangs there all the time now. Either we're just used to it now, or we can't hear that decibel anymore. (grins)

What model number Hamilton do you have, if I may ask, Mike? I'm carrying my 992B today, and it would indeed make railroad inspection today, as it couldn't vary more than 30+- seconds a week, and this one nails that requirement to a tee!

Regards! Michaelson

[Anonymous]

Michaelson,
I'll have to dig it out and look. I have it stored with other valuables as I've traveled quite a bit the last few years. I sure hear you (or actually don't, I guess) about the high end frequency loss. I bought that watch at an antique show when I was about 14. Got a nice chain for it too. Saw a gorgeous one (chain) in a small shop in a very small town. It was $15. Had to choose between the chain, a triple link one (looked like a gold rope), or a C.St.P.M.&O. hand lantern. The lantern won and I never had another $15 on me when I made it out that way again. $15 was a lot of money in the 60s. (gas was $.22/gal.) Still got that lantern though!
Mike

[AltonFan]

I seem to remember a story about John W. Barriger drawing up specifications for railroaders' wristwatches back in the 1940s.

[Anonymous]

Mike, depending on the type watch, you still may have done as well choosing the lantern. I was in a Franklin Ky antique store over the weekend, and they were asking $225 for some lanterns in only fair condition.[V]

Depending on the watch, a LOT of information would have to be 'gathered' in order to determine value....though if it's the right maker, model, movement and case combination, you could be talking easily 4 to 5 figures lately!!![:O]

Regards! Michaelson