All Things Great Northern!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[trainboyH16-44]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GN-Rick

Good luck, Ron. I plan to get one myself-plus maybe a couple extra flattop
coaches to upgrade my International. Great time to be a GN modeler-finally!

And it's a good time to meet you, for anyone who falls under your influence can watch his layout slowly turn green...(and orange, and possibly a bit of blue, white and black if you go for that)
Ahh, the GN. CP's great rival in southern BC. Nothing like an American fighting for Canada with a Canadian coming in from the south side of the border!

[coborn35]

I know a former GN engineer.

[Anonymous]

re: the GN ref sheet colors on line. I've got my GN ref sheet out and am comparing it to the screen in a separate window and a print out while I'm writing this. Of course, my descriptions are limited to my Princeton Ultra 72 monitor and HP 990 Cse printer.
1. Pullman Green--not too bad on color, both the screen and print out are a bit lighter intensity than the chip.
2. Omaha Orange--this is the worst rendition of any of the colors, way too red, both on screen and printed out. If everyone else is getting a similar appearance, it is almost a disservice to represent this color as Omaha Oange.
3. Imitation Gold--the chip is both yellower and lighter than the screen or print out, but closer to the print out.
4. Gray--the chip is lighter than either the screen or print out
5. Vermillion--the chip is darker and deeper than either the screen or print out.
6. Mineral Red--chip just a bit redder than the screen, about the same color as the print out, but darker in intensity
7. Glacier Green--chip darker than screen, just slightly darker than print out, but similar shade.
8. WFE Yellow--chip is much more lemon or canary yellow compared to screen or print out
9. Big Sky Blue--chip is somewhat darker intensity and shade than screen or print out.
10. G.N. Gray-- Chip is not bad compared to screen, darker in intensity than print out.

I hope this helps, but not sure. I haven't tried scanning the sheet myself to see if I end up with the same screen and print out colors.


The GN GP-20s do have the winterization hatch in the parts bag along with the "wing" windows/rear view mirrors, but they don't have the snow plows. My 4 non DCC units arrived last week and I think Walthers has done a great job with them.
I've only test run one so far, but it purrs very nicely. It will remain to be seen if they develop splitting gear problems with time, but a Walthers rep assured me they have dealt with the problem and have corrected it.
Incidentally, the Omaha Orange paint on these units matches the GNRHS chip, except for the fans, screens, and winterization hatch--the color is molded in, not painted. That makes them a lighter orange and they will benefit from some diesel exhaust weathering. Might even give those parts a shot of orange paint first.

Hope the review helps.
Ron Ferrel

[GN-Rick]

Good luck, Ron. I plan to get one myself-plus maybe a couple extra flattop
coaches to upgrade my International. Great time to be a GN modeler-finally!

[Anonymous]

Now that the links are posted, I have a mostly Soho brass '55 Builder and then went and bought a Challenger set. The first one runs OK, but is still unpainted and no interiors. The Challenger set is beautiful, but even after tweaking, still won't negotiate our club layout. By comparison, the Walthers set is cheap enough, I'm planning on buy another EB and hope this one will both run and look nice. Third time is the charm, right?
Ron Ferrel

[Anonymous]

PROTO 2000 GN EMD F7 DIESELS, links below:

920-40587 A-B Set w/Sound & DCC
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-40587

920-40589 A-B Set Standard DC
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-40589

920-40588 A Only w/Sound & DCC
no link, data from listing
40588 PROTO 2000 Diesel EMD F7A Unit Powered w/Sound & DCC -- Great Northern ("Empire Builder") HO 189.00 N 30-Jun-2007

920-40590 A Only Standard DC
no link, data from listing
40590 PROTO 2000 Diesel EMD F7A Unit Powered - Standard DC -- Great Northern ("Empire Builder") HO 99.00 N 30-Jun-2007

[Anonymous]

Sorry about the first mis post. What I really wanted to say is that Walthers has announced its HO 1955 GN Empire Builder. Links below:

Baggage-Mail
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9032

Baggage-Dorm
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9035

Coach
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9031

Dome Coach
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9039

Ranch Car
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9034

Diner
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9037

Full-Dome Lounge
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9040

7-4-3-1 Sleeper
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9033

6-5-2 Sleeper
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9036

Coulee Observation
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9038

F-7 locomotives to follow

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by randyaj

Sounds about the same as the variations of orange and green for the Builder colors!
Ah well guess that leaves me some room for my discresion
Randy

[GN-Rick]

In answer to up829, the GN and NP were co-owners of the SP&S. This didn't
mean that they were in agreement about how to operate the subsidiary. One of
the disagreements between the GN and the NP involved equalizing mileage
for GN trains being hauled over the SP&S. In 1932, GN signed an agreement
with the SP&S, with the approval of the NP, effectively giving the GN traffic rights
over the SP&S between Spokane and Wishram, Wa., and Wshram and Bend,
Oregon on the Oregon Trunk Railway (an SP&S subsidiary). This was for GN's
"Inside Gateway" traffic to northern California and the WP connection.
Instead of running its own trains, the GN chose to have the SP&S handle them
under contract. This agreement specified that when SP&S locomotives were
used, the GN was to pay an engine rental fee based on GN car mileage. An
option to the agreement alowed the GN to furnish its own locomotives of equal
capacity to equalize the haulage fees (mileage equalization). With the purchase
by the SP&S of the Z-6 class locos, the 'equal capacity' clause became an
issue between the GN and NP. The GN proposed to use the then current
design of 2-8-8-0s-the N-2 class-as equalization locos. The NP, not wanting
to lose out on the engine rental fees it expected the GN to pay for using the
Z-6s, declared that the N-2s were "not equal to the Z-6 design, being about
10% less efficient". The NP suggested that the GN purchase two Z-6s
instead. In short, for the next two years, the fur (and hot angry memos) flew,
NP continuing to reject the N-2s. Eventually, the GN gave in, and agreed to
purchase two Z-6s from the SP&S which turned out to be the 903 and 904.
The two locomotives were purchased in April of 1939.
GN operated these engines mostly between Wishram and Bend, with
occasional forays to Spokane as part of the general Z-6 pool.
After WWll, when the rebuilt N-3s again became available, they were
assigned (in part) to the Klamath division. With these assignments,
the need for the Zs as equalization power was diminished and first the
4001, in 1947, and the 4000 in 1950, as dieselization began to take
hold.
Interestingly, the rebuilt N-3 2-8-8-0s were rated at 104,000 lbs tractive
effort-about the same as the Z-6, but the N-3 had nearly 106,000 lbs
more weight on drivers than had the Zs. Tonnage ratings on a 1% grade
were as follows: Z-6. 3530. N-3, 4032. Additionally, the N-3 had speed
capability comparable to the Z-6s-even though neither engine was really
able to demostrate this on the multi-curved Oregon Trunk.
Hope this gives some insight on how GN's ownership of NP class Z-6
Challengers came about.

[passengerfan]

GREAT
NORTHERN
Streamlined Observations
by Al

The Great Northern Railway owned a total of twenty-two streamlined Observations, six from Pullman Standard, nine from American Car & Foundry and seven were rebuilt from heavyweight cars in GN shops.
In anticipation of the new lightweight streamlined EMPIRE BUILDERS about to make their debut in February 1947 the GN shops semi-streamlined an old heavyweight car 990 a 56 revenue seat Coach and remodeled the interior for a connecting service with the EMPIRE BUILDER between Great Falls and Havre, Montana. This car 1059 ROBERT S. FORD would be considered a blunt observation with diaphragm. Above the diaphragm was a red mars light. The car was painted in Empire Builder colors and even carried the EMPIRE BUILDER name in its letter board centered above the windows. The interior of the 1059 ROBERT S. FORD was fitted with a 12 seat Dinette and 14 seat Parlor section. The car operated for several years as the EMPIRE BUILDER connection and it is unknown what became of the 1059 ROBERT S. FORD.
The first lightweight streamlined Observations delivered to the GN were the five RIVER series for assignment to the streamlined EMPIRE BUILDERS of 1947. These were Pullman Standard built, as were all cars in the 1947 EMPIRE BUILDERS. Each RIVER series car featured 2 Double Bedrooms 1 Drawing Room Buffet 14 seat Cocktail Lounge and 16-seat lounge Observation. These Swallow-tailed Observations were both numbered and named 1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER, 1191 MISSOURI RIVER, 1192 FLATHEAD RIVER, 1193 KOOTENAI RIVER and the CB&Q owned 1194 MARIAS RIVER.
They entered EMPIRE BUILDER service beginning February 23, 1947 providing daily service between Chicago and Seattle by way of the Twin Cities. The EMPIRE BUILDER also served Portland with through cars to and from Chicago operated by the SP&S between Spokane and Portland. The RIVER series Observations were always assigned as through cars to Seattle.
On June 3, 1951 the RIVER series Observations along with the original 1947 EMPIRE BUILDER cars became the new WESTERN STAR a secondary train between Chicago and Seattle-Portland. On that same date new 15 cars EMPIRE BUILDER replaced the 12 car trains transferred to the WESTERN STAR. Due to the slower schedule of the WESTERN STAR a sixth consist was necessary to maintain daily service. With that in mind the GN received a sixth RIVER series Observation from Pullman Standard in December 1950 1197 PRIEST RIVER.
The six RIVER series Observations were rebuilt to COULEE series Observations between April and August 1955 with 4 Double Bedrooms 1 Compartment and six Roomettes. These became the only lightweight streamlined Observations to ever operate with Roomettes in revenue service. The COULEE series cars were then transferred to the EMPIRE BUILDERS and the MOUNTAIN series Observations from the 1951 EMPIRE BUILDERS were transferred to the WESTERN STAR.
Between December 1967 and February 1968 all five of the Great Northern owned COULEE series Observations were rebuilt to straight 68 revenue seat coaches. The CB&Q COULEE series car was sold privately in 1968.

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 14 SEAT COCKTAIL LOUNGE 16 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Swallow-Tailed) Pullman Standard February 1947 Plan: 4109 Lot 6751 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to WESTERN STAR 1951)

1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER

1191 MISSOURI RIVER

1192 FLATHEAD RIVER

1193 KOOTENAI RIVER

(CB&Q)

1194 MARIAS RIVER

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 14 SEAT COCKTAIL LOUNGE 16 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Swallow-Tailed) Pullman Standard December 1950 Plan: 4109A Lot: 6878 (Built for and assigned to WESTERN STAR)

1197 PRIEST RIVER

4 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 6 ROOMETTES 16 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Swallow-tailed) rebuilt by Pullman for the GN from RIVER series Observations as follows)

APRIL 1955

1190 CHOUTEAU COULEE originally GN 1190 MISSISSIPPI RIVER

MAY 1955

1193 ROCKY COULEE originally GN 1193 KOOTENAI RIVER

JUNE 1955

1191 TWELVE MILE COULEE originally GN 1191 MISSOURI RIVER

1197 GRAND COULEE originally GN 1197 PRIEST RIVER

JULY 1955

1194 TRAIL COULEE originally CB&Q 1194 MARIAS RIVER

AUGUST 1955

1192 CORRAL COULEE originally GN 1192 FLATHEAD RIVER

The Great Northern Mid-Century EMPIRE BUILDER 15 car train sets entered service June 3, 1951. The new EMPIRE BUILDERS featured a new MOUNTAIN series Observation built by American Car & Foundry. The forward part of these cars was occupied by a car attendants Roomette and two other Roomettes, one of these for the Pullman Conductor the other for the traveling Passenger Service Representative. After the Roomettes was a Buffet and a spacious 36 seat Lounge Observation with large picture windows around the lounge area. These cars were assigned MOUNTAIN suffix names and the GN received six of these cars. Only five were necessary for daily EMPIRE BUILDER service but the sixth was rotated in and out at St. Paul as the EMPIRE BUILDER traveled eastbound after being supplied for a round trip from St. Paul to St. Paul. One consist of the 1951 EMPIRE BUILDER was transferred to CB&Q ownership in September 1953 and the 1291 ST. NICHOLAS MOUNTAIN became the Observation transferred to the CB&Q. In August 1955 the MOUNTAIN series Observations were transferred to the WESTERN STAR and the COULEE series were assigned to the EMPIRE BUILDERS. The reason for the change was the EMPIRE BUILDER carried new DOMES and the Lounge space in the MOUNTAIN series wasn't needed as the full-length Great dome for Pullman passengers had more than ample lounge space and a larger Buffet. When the FAST MAIL and WESTERN STAR were combined the MOUNTAIN series Observations became a mid-train car without a diaphragm fitted for the trailing cars that were all storage mail cars anyway. In the final year of operation under the GN before the BN merger the MOUNTAIN series Observations not only operated in the FAST MAIL/WESTERN STAR but also ran in place of PORT series Observations in the INTERNATIONALS.

3 CREW ROOMETTE BUFFET 36 SEAT PICTURE WINDOW LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Swallow-Tailed) American Car & Foundry March 1951 (Built for and assigned to EMPIRE BUILDER transferred to WESTERN STAR in 1955)

GN

1290 APPEKUNNY MOUNTAIN

CB&Q

1291 ST. NICHOLAS MOUNTAIN

GN

1292 GOING-TO-THE-SUN MOUNTAIN

1293 CATHEDRAL MOUNTAIN

1294 TREMPALEAU MOUNTAIN

1295 LITTLE CHIEF MOUNTAIN

The three remaining new Observations purchased by the Great Northern were all from American Car & Foundry.
Two of these Observations were delivered as part of five car trains for service between Seattle and Vancouver, B.C. three times daily. This service was known as the INTERNATIONALS and the streamliners entered service June 18, 1950. The new INTERNATIONAL each had a Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car, two 60 revenue seat Coaches, a 28 revenue seat Coach 24 seat Dining Car, and the last car was a PORT series Observation. The interior of the two PORT series Observations 1195 PORT OF SEATTLE and 1196 PORT OF VANCOUVER featured a Customs Office Buffet Parlor Bedroom 29 seat Parlor 4 seat Lounge Observation. The reason for the customs office was the trains crossed the border at Blaine - White Rock in each direction. Northbound the customs agents boarded the trains at Mt. Vernon, Washington and traveled with the train to Vancouver. Southbound they boarded the trains in Vancouver and disembarked at Mt. Vernon.

CUSTOMS OFFICE BUFFET PARLOR BEDROOM 29 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR 4 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS (Swallow-tailed) American Car & Foundry May 1950 (Built for and assigned to INTERNATIONALS)

1195 PORT OF SEATTLE

1196 PORT OF VANCOUVER

The third streamlined train to enter service in 1950 was the RED RIVER between Grand Forks and St. Paul round trip daily. This five car streamlined train comprised of a Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car, three 60 revenue seat Coaches, and the Observation 1147 RED RIVER. The interior of the 1147 RED RIVER featured 12 seat Dinette, 9 seat Coffee Shop Lunch Counter 14 seat Parlor and 2 seat Lounge Observation. In July 1968 1147 RED RIVER was rebuilt to a straight 68 revenue seat Coach retaining the number 1147 but the name Red RIVER was deleted at that time.

12 SEAT DINETTE 9 SEAT COFFEE SHOP LUNCH COUNTER KITCHEN 14 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR 2 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Swallow-tailed) American Car & Foundry May 1950 (Built for and assigned to RED RIVER)

1147 RED RIVER

In April 1952 GN shops turned out two streamlined Observations for service bringing up the markers of the BADGER and GOPHER trains between the Twin Cities (St. Paul-Minneapolis) and Twin Ports (Duluth-Superior). These two Observations were rebuilt from heavyweight coaches and were among the first cars to have thermo-pane@ glass installed. The cars were originally built by Pullman as heavyweight Parlor cars and were named CORDELIA and NATALIE. Both were built in August 1926. The GN purchased the pair in 1942 for conversion to coaches. Not only did the GN shops equip the cars with new Thermo-pane@ windows during the rebuilding to streamline Observations but also installed new welded sides and observation end. New steel Dutch-doors were installed at the vestibule end complete with folding traps for the steps. A new smooth contour streamlined roof was installed as well. The Blunt Observation ends of the cars featured a window on either side of the center door with a window as well. Below the two windows on the rear were train name signs one displaying the name BADGER the other the name GOPHER. The interior of the two cars 1083 TWIN CITIES and 1084 TWIN PORTS featured a 10 seat Dinette Buffet 26 seat Parlor Lounge Observation. A few years after the trains entered service the two Observations had a diaphragm installed at the Observation end. Later the 1083 TWIN CITIES was rebuilt to Track Measuring car B-9. The 1084 TWIN PORTS was retired.

10 SEAT DINETTE BUFFET 26 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR OBSERVATIONS (Blunt) GN SHOPS rebuilt April 1952 (Rebuilt and streamlined for BADGER and GOPHER)

1083 TWIN CITIES

1084 TWIN PORTS

A third observation identical to the 1083 TWIN CITIES and TWIN PORTS was rebuilt and streamlined by GN shops in October 1954. This time a 1929 built Pullman Solarium Observation originally built for the EMPIRE BUILDER named DAVID C. SHEPARD was selected for rebuilding. This car was numbered 1085 and did not carry a name. The 1085 was assigned to the GN Seattle - Portland pool trains and when the GN dropped Parlor service on this route the car remained in Seattle being assigned to the INTERNATIONALS when one of their PORT series cars required more than just routine maintenance. The 1085 was rebuilt later to GN Business car B-2 DESCHUTES RIVER.

10 SEAT DINETTE BUFFET 26 REVENUE SEAT PARLOR OBSERVATION Rebuilt and Streamlined by GN shops from heavyweight car)

1085

The final two observations rebuilt and streamlined by GN shops were 1060 and 1061. These were rebuilt and streamlined for the CASCADIANS between Seattle and Spokane. These were rebuilt from heavyweight dining cars 1030 OREGON and 1031 WISCONSIN in 1954. There only claim to being Observations was the one end of these cars above the diaphragm had a red mars light installed and there were train sign boards mounted on the rear on either side of the diaphragm for the signs CASCADIAN. The interiors were extensively rebuilt and modernized having a kitchen 16 seat Café and 18 reserved coach seats. These seats were generally held for passengers traveling the entire distance between Seattle and Spokane. And sometimes these seats accommodated all of the passengers traveling that day especially in the final years of the CASCADIANS. In later years the cars were assigned to the DAKOTANS with the Dinette area increased to 20 seats and the Coach section seating increased to 24.

KITCHEN 16 SEAT DINETTE CAFÉ 18 RESERVED SEAT COACH OBSERVATIONS Rebuilt by GN shops from heavyweight Dining Cars 1954)

1060, 1061

TTFN Al

[Train 284]

No way! Southern Pacific was the best wetern railroad! [:(!][:P]

But, I do love GN northerns!

[Anonymous]

Any insights on why GN decided it didn't like Challengers? My understanding is they did try a couple, but they ended up on SP&S. They would seem ideal for GN's profile, and a home built belpaire boilered Challanger, or even a modern 2-6-6-4 fast freight loco in GN green would have been interesting for sure.

[GN-Rick]

I agree. It is odd that PCM doesn't yet list these releases but Walthers
does. However, Model Railroader's website also announced these-along
with the new SP GS-4s and Daylight passenger cars. Two independent (?)
sources. Since it appears that PCM is a subsidiary of BLI (or a very close
affiliate) they have a great starting point for the S-2--BLI's beautiful, but
very pricey brass one from earlier this year. Still hoping. . . . .
Walthers is forecasting these to be released around Spring 2007.
Oh, well. Patience is good to learn. Plus I can begin saving money now. . . .

[wjstix]

I've never understood why Walthers would have something listed on their site before the manufacturer has it on their own site !! [%-)] Sounds like an interesting deal, not bad for a sound equipped GN 4-8-4. [:)] Unfortunately I suppose it will be a year or two until they're actually released.

[GN-Rick]

New Release! Precision Craft Models has announced the production of an
HO scale die-cast (or plastic) model of the GN S-2 4-8-4. These models to
be equipped either with open or vestibule cab. In 4 road numbers and with
or without sound and DCC. $399 with sound, $299 without. These are listed
in the Walthers online catalog.

[wjstix]

Of course some woodsided boxcars lasted long enough to be painted in the 50's fire engine red scheme or the sixties glacier park green paint...I think a few even got the Big Sky Blue treatment !!

[GN-Rick]

Yes, GNRHS does have the reference sheet # 28 posted on their site. However,
exactly what colors you might see depends a lot on the quality of your monitor.
I have found it hard to match from that as well.
On another note, I just received the May flyer from Walthers. In it, is a
picture of what I belive is the upcoming GN-specific GP20 release.
If this photo is correct, Walthers has really done a magnificent model.
What I am seeing is Walthers is including the extra grab irons on each
end per GN practice, the correct front end mounted bell for the first
GN order of GP20s and the model appears to have the correct 4-step
corner wells-a feature never before modeled-other than in brass.
Only things missing are the winterization hatch (probably included
in the detail parts bag) and the two snow pilots-perhaps in the details,
or, easy to add with aftermarket parts. All in all, I am quite impressed
with what I am seeing. Wathers is doing GN modelers proud with
this one.

[Anonymous]

Yea, it all is very confusing with all of the various colors, i believe GNRHS has paint chips on their website.

[GN-Rick]

The one thing I've learned (painfully) about orange and green, is to avoid
trying to match anything in a photograph as far as colors. The presence (or
absence) of filters, the light conditions, the general condition of the paint,
the age of the negative or print (or slide) and even the photographic develop-
ing process all conspire to make color matching from photos a very arcane
and difficult art. (Sure wi***he GNRHS could some way reissue reference
sheet number 28 with the paint chips). Then there are the differences in
formulating each individual batch of paint. Certain photos show, for example,
a consist of locomotives, all in EB paint, yet exhibiting 2 different shades of
orange[:O]. Volume 2 of the GN Color Pictorial series has just such a photo
on the bottom of page 15. Glacier green can be even worse. There were
definitely 2 different shades of that color. The early version, which appeared
in 1961 was rather light in appearance and had suggestions of a very small
amount of blue tint to it. It also faded very rapidly in service. Then, in 1965,
the GN took delivery of it's well known order of 4-bay ACF covered hoppers.
These were painted in a much darker version of Glacier Green. This shade
tended to not fade much at all over time either. The 1967-built waffle-sided
boxcars numbered 4200-4399 were also in this darker shade. As our
GNRHS President Duane Buck says often: Never say never-or always-when
talking about the Great Northern Railway.

[randyaj]

Sounds about the same as the variations of orange and green for the Builder colors!
Ah well guess that leaves me some room for my discresion
Randy

[GN-Rick]

Randy, the GN referred to the color as mineral brown. If that's not confusing
enough, consider the sheer number of different shades on 'mineral red'.
There must be dozens. From what I've seen, GN's version runs to the dark
side of medium, though with weathering and aging, it can easily become
lighter. On wood sheathed cars, the paint will often not only fade, but chip
off as well, leaving visible weathered wood underneath-a variegated blend
of grays. I, myself, am happy using Floquil boxcar red, either mixed or
over sprayed with clear gloss to darken it. I am not very picky about mineral
brown,because of the changes it undergoes in weathering. Others probably
have different opinions.

[randyaj]

I have a question about the west's greatest road(I know, I know my opinion). I am building several S scale wood sheathed box cars and am wondering what the color of the cars was. It appears brown, is that the mineral red that I have heard about?
Randy Johnson

[Anonymous]

My great grandfather worked for the great northern in 30s and early 40s

[GN-Rick]

I've found very few plasic model steam locomotives that are close enough to
the GN prototype to attempt any conversions. (O-3 Mikado excepted). So, I
bit the bullet and have aquired an adequate collection of older brass steamers.
If one was not a stickler for accuracy, (which affliction I happily acknowedge)
I suppose a creditable P-2 could be fashioned from the Spectrum Mountain.
I confess, I've never really looked into the project, as I have a pair of PFM P-2s.

[Anonymous]

Depends how accurate you want it to be, as you said they would both come close is they were decorated but you probably couldn't be accurate with either unless you scratchbuilt off those chassis.

[wjstix]

p.s. Yes I know this is probably more a topic for the MR forum, but what the heck. [:I]

[wjstix]

Well since you have that nice GN 4-8-4 pic...I'd be interesting in hearing comments about my idea of starting with a Spectrum Heavy 4-8-2 to model either a GN P-2 4-8-2 or an S-2 4-8-4 (as Sancho's picture shows).

For the 4-8-4, the C&O Spectrum engine has the pumps on the front and the long vanderbilt tender of the GN engine, but of course you'd have to replace the trailing truck with a 4-wheel one. Otherwise, an undec 4-8-2 with an undec long vandy tender would come fairly close to a GN P-2 Mountain when decorated for the GN without having to make too many modifications.

Just a thought I've had in the back of my head for a while, any comments?? [?][;)][%-)]

[Anonymous]

Here are two great sites on the Great Northern Railway.

http://www.gnrhs.org/
http://www.greatnorthernempire.net/

[Anonymous]

Post anything on America's best western railroad. [8D]