From New Orleans to Portland

[Anonymous]

Can somebody tell me what was the alltogether mileage of tracks the SP had in it´s best years? Back then, SP was the biggest railroad by mileage in the USA, is that true? I mean it´s net was really big: From New Orleans to Los Angeles, from Houston to Dallas/ Forth Worth, from Tucumari to El Paso, from Los Angeles to San Francsisco and Portland, and from San Francsisco to Ogden and Salt Lake City, and from Sparks to Southern Oregon or Northern California and also the numerous mainlines and branches in California and Oregon. And it also had that narrow gauge line somewhere in the desert and the Cotton belt to St. Louis. Was a railroad during the classic era ever bigger than this?

[wjstix]

That's true, you could travel an incredible distance on the CP - plus of course at one time there was CP airline and CP steamship companies too !! Only longer rail trip on one line I guess would be the Trans-Siberian line in Russia??

[Anonymous]

Stix, I agree; that was the intent of my first post above. You could travel from one end to the other and always be on SP property but not necessarily on the same train. Only in Canada could one find anything close to the scope of the SP.
Art

[wjstix]

I think Don Ball was pointing out that most people think of SP as the first 'transcontinental' route, running from Chicagoland to California, most folks wouldn't realize it went as far to the northwest as Portland and as far to the southeast as New Orleans. I don't think he was trying to advocate making the trip on the SP or that it was a better / quicker trip than some other railroad offered. He was just making a point about how much of the country the SP covered. Kinda like how many people wouldn't realize the Milwaukee Road served Kentucky, or the Great Northern having trackage in California.

[Anonymous]

In June, 1954, the City of Portland (UP) and the Portland sections of the Empire Builder (GN) and North Coast Limited (NP) were all scheduled to arrive Portland, OR, at the same time, 7:30 AM. The City left Chicago at 5:30PM, the Empire Builder at !:00PM, and the NCL left at 11:30AM.
The Panama Limited left New Orleans at 4:15PM, arriving Chicago at 8:45AM. A passenger leaving on Saturday afternoon arrived Portland on Tuesday morning.

The City of New Orleans, leaving at 7:15AM, reached Chicago (11:40PM) too late for the west coast trains but arrived in St.Louis at 9:00PM in time for the Portland Rose departure at 11:40PM. The Rose would reach Portland on Tuesday at 5:30AM, two hours ahead of the Chicago trains but the passenger left New Orleans 9 hours earlier, so the St.Louis route would take longer.

The all SP route, using only trains - no ferry, would take almost 72 hours. Leave N.O. on the Sunset at 11:45PM on Saturday evening and arrive Portland Tuesday evening on the Shasta Daylight at 11:30PM.

Art

[wjstix]

"The property" is the railroad. Someone who was working on the railroad was "on the property" while they were actually working (i.e. when they weren't at home). When he said you could go from New Orleans LA to Portland OR without "changing the property" he meant you could travel the whole way on the Southern Pacific, not on one particular train of the SP. In this case you would have to take more than one train it appears.

[passengerfan]

Believe the UP/IC route was the fastest Panama Limited New Orleans - Chicago and UP-C&NW City of Portland from there. Probably the through overnight sleeper between New Orleans and Houston that continued in the AT&SF to Oakland was the second fastest. The all SP route probably third and the MP-CB&Q- FW&D/C&S-NP route was probably the shortest but one could have boarded the City of Portland in Denver at one time that would have been the shortest of all.

[Anonymous]

Are the IC-GN/NP/UP or MP-ATSF or MP-CB&Q-FW&D-C&S-NP routes shorter by mileage or are the trains simply faster than SP trains?

[passengerfan]

During the latter 1950's a much faster way to travel from New Orleans to Portland would have been IC to Chicago and UP, GN or NP to Portland. Another faster routing would have been the through sleeping cars from New Orleans to Oakland via the MP and AT&SF and then take the Cascade to Portland.
Another possibility for route was Mp to Houston CB&Q to Fort Worth, FW&D/C&S to Billings and NP to Portland. Even this route would have been faster than the all SP route.

[passengerfan]

During the latter 1950's a much faster way to travel from New Orleans to Portland would have been IC to Chicago and UP, GN or NP to Portland. Another faster routing would have been the through sleeping cars from New Orleans to Oakland via the MP and AT&SF and then take the Cascade to Portland.
Another possibility for route was Mp to Houston CB&Q to Fort Worth, FW&D/C&S to Billings and NP to Portland. Even this route would have been faster than the all SP route.

[Anonymous]

Yes, you´re right. I can really good imagine that there was a lot of action going on at LAUPT back then. Just imagine the Sunset Limited, the Golden State, the Coast / San Joaquin Daylight, the Super Chief / Chief, the City of Los Angeles and the Los Angeles Limited all together in the station......must have been a great picture!

[PBenham]

One could travel on SP Portland, Oregon to New Orleans, but you'd have to change trains in L.A., possibly with a layover, but that's a place with a lot to look into while one was waiting, though. And, one would not have had to wander too far from LAUPT to get a look at a lot of the action.

[Anonymous]

After the West Coast was cut back from Portland, it provided overnight service from Los Angeles to Sacramento, not to Oakland or San Francisco.

artschlosser: the through NYC to LA and SF sleepers via the Overland Route survived the transfer of Overland trains from Northwestern to the Milwaukee Road. They were done in by economics: not many people used them. I believe the last of the transcontinental sleepers bit the dust in 1958.

[Anonymous]

DeLuxe, I have a Feb 1938 Official Guide reprint that shows that the SP is still providing the New Orleans to San Francisco through sleeper. I suspect WWII was the cut off point for the LA to SF extension but have no guides until 1945 where it shows service from N.O. only to LA.

The Feb 1952 issue that I purloined from my employer shows thru-sleeper service from NYC to SF but only through Chicago. Guess Mr. Young's chant of "A hog can travel coast to coast but you can't!" was finally vindicated.

Art

[Anonymous]

Post 1930's-early 1960's (pick your layover). NOL-LA: Sunset or Argonaut; LA-OAK: Oakland Lark, SJ Daylight, Owl, West Coast, etc.; OAK-Portland: Cascade, Shasta Daylight, West Coast. All on SP. If I recall, LAUPT owned by 1/3 SP, 1/3 UP, 1/3 ATSF.

[Anonymous]

Well, the Sunset Limited definetly ran through from New Orleans to San Francisco. But this was only the case up to early 30ies. Then the direct service to San Francisco was dropped and since then, the Sunset Limited is running only to Los Angeles but not further to San Francsisco anymore. There was also a through Los Angels-Portland train. It was SP´s West Coast Express. But in the late 40ies the service was also dropped, and the West Coast only ran between Los Angeles and San Francisco.

[Anonymous]

Interesting, Paul; if you're on the "inside", travel can be much more pleasant. Both the 1954 and 1971 Guides mention the NYC to New Orleans through-sleeper to LA ; no mention though of the 'unadvertised' connection..

The 1954 Guide shows a NYC sleeper through to SF on the overland route through Chicago. Don't know when it got dropped but it doesn't show up in the '71 Guide. By then, the Milwaukee had taken over from the Northwestern in handling the UP trains to Omaha.
You'd think getting the sleeper from LaSalle over to Union would be easier than to the Northwestern, but I suspect money was the principle factor, not ease of movement.
Art

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

David P Morgan and his entourage described a San Francisco-New York trip taken in the immediate pre-Amtrak period without ever changing their accomodations. There was a through Los Angeles-New York sleeper on the Sunset/Southern Crescent. The sleeper operated through from San Francisco unadvertised, serving as the parlor car on the Coast Daylight, so Morgan's party started their trip in San Francisco and ended it in New York, meeting Rogers E M Whitaker (aka E M Frimbo) at Penn Station.

[Anonymous]

DeLuxe, I don't have Mr. Ball's book but my sources say the Sunset Limited ran from New Orleans to Los Angeles, not San Francisco.
Now that phrase "without ever changing the property" is not very precise. Is property the train or the company? SP ran from Los Angles to Portland via San Francisco and Oakland but you'd probably have to change trains 3 times. LA to SF, SF to Oakland, and Oakland to Portland. But you would always be riding SP property. Don't know who owns LAUT.

My Official Guides of 1945 and April 71 (Amtrak took over May 1) show no through cars on the Sunset to SF and no through cars from LA to Porland.

I rode Amtrak from LA to Portland without getting off the train; it was routed through Oakland and never got close to San Francisco..

Art

[Anonymous]

In Don Ball Jr.´s book "Americas colorful railroads" it says that on the SP you could travel all the way from New Orleans to Portland without ever changing the property. Well, as far as I know the Sunset Limited ran between New Orleans and San Francisco, but I don´t know any other SP train which had a longer route and ran all the way through from New Orleans to Portland. Or did the Sunset Limited have some through cars from New Orleans to Portland back in it´s best days?