The last complete Heavyweight train in the U.S.

[Anonymous]

Can somebody tell me what the last complete Heavyweight passenger train was which regularily run on the rails? Among the big transcontinental trains, I heard it was the Sunset Limited, which was a complete Heavyweight train until August 1950. But were there any trains later on which still were a full Heavyweight consist?

[passengerfan]

ORange Blossom Special comes immediatly to mind never did operate as anything but a heavyweight.
It was 1951 before GN replaced the heavyweight Oriental Limited with the streamlined Western Star.
The NP Alaskan later replaced by the Mainstreeter ran as a heavyweight into the 1950's.
The Cascade also lasted into 1950 as a heavyweight.
The Argonaut also comes to mind as heavcyweight into the late 1950's or possibly early 1960's
The CN Continental lasted to 1955 as a heacvyweight
Given more time I'm sure i could come up with others.
Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

The Argonaut was never lightweight. The closest it ever came was a couple of ex-SSW Pullman-Bradley "American Flyer" lightweight chair cars transferred to SP and used as rider coaches in the early 1960's, after the train became coach only. In that same regard the remaining SSW ESL-Pine Bluff train "reverted" to heavyweight after their P-B cars went to SP.

[wjstix]

The Soo Line never bought lightweight equipment if I remember right, so their trains like "The Laker" would have all been heavyweight-only until they ended passenger service on the Soo in the sixties. (They might have leased some lightweight cars though, from CP or the Pennsy.)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wjstix

The Soo Line never bought lightweight equipment if I remember right, so their trains like "The Laker" would have all been heavyweight-only until they ended passenger service on the Soo in the sixties. (They might have leased some lightweight cars though, from CP or the Pennsy.)

Almost, but not quite. In the Spring 2006 issue of Classic Trains there's a photo of the Laker in 1958 in Waukesha, Wisconsin. It mentions that "the closest it got to being a "streamliner" was the lightweight sleeping car it carried, usually one in PRR Tuscan red, as that was the closest color match Pullman could make to Soo's maroon."

[daveklepper]

Other than some "American Flyers", I believe the Lehigh Valley never owned lighweight equipment, and its streamliners were all modernized (mostly just paint on the exterior and reclilning seats and new lighting inside) heavyweights.

When the New York Ontario and Western existed the passenger business in the 50's, it ended still using "The Great Timber Fleet," as we used to call it, even the Mountanier, the premier and last train.

Wasn't the last year of the Orange Blossom Speical 1952?

Like other post-WWII heavyweights, inlcuding those mentioned on above postings, occasional lighweights would show up in a consist when they were not required on their specific assignments and it was convenient to use them. And often the reverse was true with the lighweight streamliners, except that for the premier trains of certain railroads, like the Broadway, 20th Century, Super Chief, El Cap, Silver Meteor, East Coast Campion, City of LA, Coast Daylight, post 1952 Congressionals and Senators and post 1949 Merchants Limited and Yankee Clipper and Colonial, Southerner, every effort was made to keep an all lightweight consist. But even then, sometimes heavyweight head end equipment was added. On the West Coast Champion, Silver Star, City of San Francisco (especially while on the SP), General, Texas Chief, Texas Zephyr, and others, during peak travel periods one was almost certain to see a modornized heavyweight, often the diner or a lounge car, sometimes a second diner.

[ZephyrOverland]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper


Wasn't the last year of the Orange Blossom Speical 1952?

The Orange Blossom Special ran until April of 1953.

In Joseph Welsh's Chicago Passenger Trains of Yesteryear: Chicago Westbound, there is a photo caption which states that Wabash's Banner Blue was operated as an all-heavyweight train until 1960. I am not aware of any other intercity train that ran regularly with all heavyweight cars beyond this.

[rji2]

"The Pan American" on L&N, perhaps?

[ZephyrOverland]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rji2

"The Pan American" on L&N, perhaps?

The Pan-American received lightweight sleepers in 1949.

[daveklepper]

Of course we have been discussing intercity trains. Suburban services often used downgraded long distance heavyweight coaches, such as P-70's in PRR. then Penn Central New York and Long Branch (Jersey Shore) service and Chicago - Valpariso, the Grand Trunk's Detroit suburban service until discontinued, New Haven and New York Central service out of Boston, the Harriman coaches in SP's service out pf San Francisco, etc.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I'm not too sure about other cities but some of the Chicago area suburban operations kept heavyweights quite late. The Valparaiso locals ran with P70's (and at least one ex-EL lightweight) until Amtrak took over the operation with ex-C&NW intercity bi-levels. IC kept its original heavyweight MU cars into the 1970's. Rock Island ran pre-war open-platform coaches on rush-hour runs until about 1977. GM&O's Joliet local ran with heavyweights until re-equipped with bi-levels by the RTA.

I'm not sure if South Shore's Insull era equipment, which ran into 1981, would qualify as heavyweight. Except for their shorter (60-61') original length, they were built to steam railroad clearances.

[agentatascadero]

Many secondary trains were never streamlined, and many heavyweight cars made it to AMTRAK day in 1971. BUT, with so many cars being scrapped during the 60's, many non-streamlined trains ran with streamlined equipment at the end. As mentioned above, the opposite also occured, streamliners running with heavyweights right up until the end. My last regularly scheduled ride in a heavyweight was on the Super Continental in the 70's. I LOVED riding on 6 wheel trucks, especially on jointed rail.

[daveklepper]

And of course the Canadian Pacific regularly runs its excursion train of heacywieght office sleeping cars. And doesn't the current regularly scheduled operaton of the Grand Canyon Railroad, clearly not a musuem but serving a real transportation need, count? Isn't it all-heavyweight?

[Anonymous]

The Illinois Central ran heavyweight cars well into the 1960's. Most were rebuilds with reclining seats and painted in the chocolate and orange colors same as were the lightweight streamliners. Some of the full heavyweight trains that come to mind were the Hawkeye, Creole, Louisiane, Seminole and Northwestern/Southeastern Limited.

[espeefoamer]

Did'nt the Long Island run the Cannonball,all heavyweight parlor car train into 1968?

[Texas Zepher]

I don't know if this counts or not, but the D&RGW Ski Train ran heavyweight until Amtrak took over the RGZ in ummmm 1987? or so.

[Anonymous]

I believe the Southern Railroad ran heavyweights fairly late in the game as well...

[Tim Burton]

I have it on Good Authority that the Wabash Canonball is still being run....It's the Eternal Heavy-weight of a greater time.

[daveklepper]

As far as I know, the Ski Train is NOT an Amtrak operation, but is run by the UP for Denver's Ski Asssociation.   I believe the D&RGW replaced the ex-NP heavyweight wood and steel composite cars with lightweight ex-CN "Tempo" equipment, and the ex-NP heavyweights went to the Napa Valley Wine Train, where they still operate.   I think this replacement took place before Amtrak's daily Callifornia Zephyr Suuperliner replaced the 3-times-weekly "Never on Wednesday" Rio Grande Zephyr.

[Anonymous]

I do not know what the last completely heavyweight train was.

But I do know that the last regularly  scheduled heavyweight sleeper was on the KC-FLA Special from Atlanta to Brunswick. Don't remember the year but I  do remember that David Morgan, long time edtior of  TRAINS  rode it and reported on it. Mid or late 60's I suppose.

About the Pan American-- not only did it get streamlined sleepers iin 1949 it also got them in 1953, the famous "Pine" series sleepers. In 1955 it gor a mix of new and hand-me-down streamlined coaches. About 1957 it got a lightweight t lunch counter-lounge.

By the time it was discontineud, it was probably completely  streamlined as to equipment, though no speed up in schedule.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Did'nt the Long Island run the Cannonball,all heavyweight parlor car train into 1968?

The LIRR "Cannon Ball" was a weekend only operation out of Long Island City to Montauk, and was indeed an all-heavyweight all-parlor car train.  The parlor cars were for the most part ex-PRR parlors that were renamed.  TRAINS had an excellent article about this operation titled "Parlor Car East" in the late 1960's.  LIRR also operated individual parlor cars out of Jamaica on other trains.

The whole parlor car operation continued into at least the 1980's using cars rebuilt from suburban and long-haul coaches.

[daveklepper]

The Cannon Ball has been revived for this summer's LIRR timetable.   "Hampton Reserve Seating" is avialable in the regular new double-deck equipment assigned to the run (no three-abreast seating in any double-deck LIRR cars), with drinks and snacks provided (prices not included in the ticket).   Glad to learn that the LIRR is restoring some of the amenety of genuine parlor car travel, if not the whole bit.  Regular seating is also available on the train. so it is a "two-class" train.   Passengers with regular commuter tickets can pay a small upgrade charge for "Hamton Reserve".

 

Information from the New York Division Electric Railroaders Association Bulletin, but any mistakes in memory are mine.