Best Standard Heavyweight Sleepers

[Anonymous]

What was the most luxurious and comfortable Standard Heavyweight sleeping car? I don´t mean some special cars or private cars, just normal standard sleepers used in regular service.
I heard it was the 6-6 Sleeper, but I have no idea if there are better cars. Have there ever been All Room Heavyweight Sleepers or something similar used in regular service ? By the way, when have the very last (6 wheel truck) Heavyweight cars been build?

[daveklepper]

The very best heavywieght sleepers were the office cars. But I enjoyed upper births in standard 12 and one's also. Heavywieght office cars I rode included the Chief Illini of Kleibolt, the Pennsy's 8-wheel car that Kennedy rode, I think the number is 120, and the best was *** Horstmann's Lehigh Valley 353. The last is at Steamtown, property of Streamtown, and rentable for a price. *** Horstmann was the finest host a "share of expenses" guest ever had.

[daveklepper]

Last time I rode a standard heavyweight sleeper was on the New Haven in I think February 1960 on the Owl. Air-conditioned standard 12roomette one drawing room cars (one each way) were assigned to the New York - Boston Owl and merchandized as "Dollar Saver Sleppers." Fare with all charges was about half way between coach and roomette. These cars ran for a year or so and then were dropped. But in 1969 I rode the Newfie Bullet both ways in an upper in a narrow gauge modernized heavywight. I would guess that the last heavyweight Pullmans were built around 1932 or 1934. But even these may have been rebuilt older cars.

[passengerfan]

Probably the finest of the heavyweight sleepers buit by Pullman were the GLEN Prefix with 6-Compartments and 3 Drawing Rooms.
Another that comes to mind were the CENTRAL prefix 3 Compartment 2 Drawing Room Lounge Open Platform Observations.

[Anonymous]

On which trains or railroads have these 6-3 Glen Prefix sleepers been in service? Can you tell me a website or so where I can see pictures of it????

[passengerfan]

The following trains are known to have operated Glen Prefix Sleepers and this is by know means complete
Orange Blossom Special, Commodore Vanderbilt, Imperial, Golden State Limited, Twentieth Century Limited, Broadway Limited, Chief, Overland Limited, Los Angeles Limited, and Pittsburgher.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The last heavyweight Pullman sleepers were built in 1931, although many were reconfigured, streamstyled or otherwise rebuilt after that date. The last regularly scheduled sleeping car run to which a heavyweight was regularly assigned was in 1965 or 1966.

[Anonymous]

But what about the Heavyweight 7 Drawing Room Sleeper? Wasn´t it the most luxurious type? On which trains has it been in use?

[passengerfan]

The only 7-Drawing Room heavyweights I am aware of were those operated in the Congressionals between Washington and New York as Parlor cars as this was not an overnight operation. They really don't qualify as overnight sleeping cars. Would have to do a little more research to be sure but those operated in the Congressionals were the only ones I was aware of.

[Anonymous]

Well, actually I´ve read that those 7 Drawing Room Pullmans were used on just 3 name trains in the US: On NYC´s 20th Century Limited, on PRR´s Broadway Limited and SF´s De Luxe. Alltogehter, there were about 35 or so cars built between 1911 and 1926 I believe.

[passengerfan]

Thanks appreciate the information will do a little more research like I said.

[passengerfan]

After researching the three trains I could only find that the 20TH Century Limited, Broadway Ltd. and Santa fe Deluxe never operated 7 Drawing Room Sleeping cars they did operate 7 Compartment 2-Drawing Room Sleepers or Glen series cars. Although the Santa Fe Deluxe was not likely to have operated either. It was replaced early on by the Chief. The Chief did operate 7 Compartment 2-Drawing Room and Glen series sleeping cars.

[Anonymous]

Well, you might be right, but here is the link to the site where I read this.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/classic/CARdwgs4.html

Now what is true?

[passengerfan]

I have spent the better part of this day researching those 7 Drawing Room Sleeping cars and I have literally hundreds of sources to call upon and I find that the following trains operated 7 Drawing Room Sleepers , Congressional, 20TH Century Limited, Broadway Limited, and Liberty Limited. The Congressional was assigned these cars for the longest period of time of any train. Both the 20th Century Limiyted and Broadway Limited replaced their 7 Drawing Room cars with 13 Double Bedroom Cars.
Have pretty good information on the Santa Fe Deluxe including consists from different seasons and years and could find no record of these cars in that particular train. Their is mention of the Overland Limited operating in 1928 with these cars in the winter timetable only. No other record could be found of these cars operating in that train. Thanks for throwing the question out their did me some good to do a days research.

[Anonymous]

The railfan.net forum has a DeLuxe thread on the ATSF board that gives a probable consist for the DeLuxe that included two 7 drawing room sleepers. (in addition to two 7 compartment 2 drawing room cars). The poster, Norm Anderson, is very knowledgeable about Santa Fe varnish. He said that his information was based on someone else's research, which is available at an atsf website.

I imagine that the Congressional 7 drawing room cars were probably not sleepers. They were dedicated daytime drawing rooms, the same kind of drawing room that made up part of regular parlor car with drawing room equipment. As far as I know these operated only in between New York and Washington and maybe between New York and Boston and Boston and Washington.

[Anonymous]

The Miamian also carried 6 compartment 3 drawing room sleepers into the 1950s from New York to Miami.

I did a quick check of the Canada Southern website (www.canadasouthern.com) and found the following trains at one time or another carrying some of the deluxe heavyweight sleepers (of course, these are limited to NYC system trains):

7 drawing rooms: the Century

7 compartments 2 drawing rooms: the Wolverine, the Toronto Limited

6 compartments 3 drawing rooms: the Century, Commodore Vanderbilt, Cleveland Limited, Lake Shore LImited, Detroiter, Florida Sunbeam, Montreal Limited, and summer service from New York to Lake Placid

[JanOlov]

As for Milwaukee Road's Olympian. What kind of heavy weights sleepers did she carry?
Was it much of a difference between the Olympian, Empire Builder and the North Coast Limited and their luxury?

[Anonymous]

JanOlov, here are some Heavyweight consists of the trains you wanted to know more about:

MILWAUKEE ROAD "The Olympian" in the 40ies
1. Baggage Express 1038
2. Lightweight Baggage Express 1100
3. Mail/Baggage Express 1821
4. Lightweight Bunkroom Coach 4441
5. Lightweight Coach 4401 "Deer Lodge"
6. Coach 4000 (modernized Heavyweight)
7. Barney & Smith Lounge (Modernized Heavyweight)
8. Diner 5105 "Camp Randall"
9.16 Section Tourist Sleeper 5719
10. 12 Section Sleeper "Pudget Sound"
11. 12-1 Sleeper "Cascade"
12. 10-1-1 Sleeper "Arrowhead"
13. 10-1-1 Sleeper "Spring Rock"
14. 8-1-2 Sleeper "Yellowstoone"
15. 6-6 Sleeper 4048 "Wooena"
16. "City" Series Buffet Lounge Observation
17. Open Air Observation (only coupled to the train in the Rocky Mountains and Cascades area)

NORTHERN PACIFIC "North Coast Limited" 1937
1. Mail 1438
2. Baggage Dormitory 1480
3. Coach 1300
4. Coach 1303
5. 16 Section Tourist Sleeper
6. 16 Section Tourist Sleeper
7. Diner 1690
8. 10-1-1 "Chief" Series Sleeper "Rice Lake"
9. 10-1-1 "Chief" Series Sleeper "Kamiakin"
10. 10-1-1 "Chief" Series Sleeper "Black Foot"
11. 10-1-1 "Chief" Series Sleeper "Many Horns"
12. 10-1-1 "Chief" Series Sleeper "Standing Buffalo"
13. 6-6 "Poplar" Series Sleeper "Gap"
14. 6-6 "Poplar" Series Sleeper "Glade"
15. 3-1 Sleeper Buffet Solarium "Canyon"
16. Lounge Observation 1717

GREAT NORTHERN "Empire Builder" 1929
1.Baggage Mail Express 52
2. Dormitory Coach 648 (on 4 wheel trucks)
3. Coach 945
4. Coach 949
5. Tourist Sleeper 4285
6. Tourist Sleeper 4286
7. Tourist Sleeper 4288
8. Diner "New York"
9. 12-1 Sleeper "Superior"
10. 6-6 Sleeper "Alexander Griggs"
11. 8-2-1 Sleeper "Alexander Ramsey"
12. 8-2-1 Sleeper "General Sheridan"
13. 8-2-1 Sleeper "John Jacob Astor"
14. Observation "James J. Hill"

I don´t know which of the 3 trains was the most luxurious during the Heavyweight era, but I heard that the North Coast Limited was also an All-Sleeper train somewhere in the 20ies, so it might have been the best (well, All-Sleeper status shouldn´t be a measure for luxury), but I´m not sure. The probably best sleepers used on all 3 trains where the 6-6 (6 Sections, 6 Double Bedrooms) Sleepers.

[JanOlov]

Thanks a milion DeLuxe!

[CarterB]

 Santa Fe 7DR cars:

7 drawing room: Plan 2583, Lot 3940, blt 9-11, for Santa Fe Deluxe, 2 cars: Pima, Piute. Plan 2583A, Lot 4209, blt 9-13, for California Ltd, 2 cars: Pampa, Ponca. Plan 2583B, Lot 4516, blt 11-17, for ATSF service, 2 cars: Pinto, Prado. Plan 2583B, Lot 4621, blt 12-20, 8 cars: Belleau Wood, Montdidier, Rheims, Soissons, Somme, St. Michiel, St. Quenty, Vimy Ridge. (p. 98) Plan 3583, Lot 4834, blt 12-24 for California Ltd, "Willow..." series: Bank, Brook, Creek, Glen, Grove, Spring.