Future of the American Passenger Train

[Anonymous]

By all means keep the passenger railroad - but it needs to be rebuilt. Has anyone here ever rode on a passenger train in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Japan or Canada? If you have not then you must because you will see and experience first hand how well governments can "run" the railroad. In life you get what you pay for and in the case of the United States , we have put in just enough money so the train does not run out of gas. There is enormous potential here. The interstate highway system is done, the skies are overcrowded. Amtrak needs to be and should be rebuilt and retooled. We need a leader to throw down the gauntlet to build the best passenger railroad system in the world. If the United States can put a man on the moon, we can build the best passenger train system. Everybody wins. The man who invented the MAG-LEV(magneticlevitation) technology was an American. The Reagan administration said that it was too expensive to develope. The Europeans took it and ran! Our passenger trains are a national disgrace. The potential for greatness is here. Beautiful terminals are located all across the United States. As passenger trains go - so goes the country. Rebuild!!

[Anonymous]

By all means keep the passenger railroad - but it needs to be rebuilt. Has anyone here ever rode on a passenger train in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Japan or Canada? If you have not then you must because you will see and experience first hand how well governments can "run" the railroad. In life you get what you pay for and in the case of the United States , we have put in just enough money so the train does not run out of gas. There is enormous potential here. The interstate highway system is done, the skies are overcrowded. Amtrak needs to be and should be rebuilt and retooled. We need a leader to throw down the gauntlet to build the best passenger railroad system in the world. If the United States can put a man on the moon, we can build the best passenger train system. Everybody wins. The man who invented the MAG-LEV(magneticlevitation) technology was an American. The Reagan administration said that it was too expensive to develope. The Europeans took it and ran! Our passenger trains are a national disgrace. The potential for greatness is here. Beautiful terminals are located all across the United States. As passenger trains go - so goes the country. Rebuild!!

[Anonymous]

[#ditto] AND HOW!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

[#ditto] AND HOW!!!!!!!!!!

[Train 284]

We need Amtrak!

[Train 284]

We need Amtrak!

[Anonymous]

I dont want to know[:(!]

[Anonymous]

I dont want to know[:(!]

[jlampke]

I too, would really like to see more people take the train. For short trips, say less than 200 miles or so, there isn't really any time advantage between flying and taking the train anymore. I say that because nowaydays, thanks largely to Muslim Terrorists, you are usually required to be at the airport at least an hour prior to your flight due to all the security requirements. Then there is the time in the air (usually not particularly comfortable unless you can afford 1st class), then you stand around waiting for your bags another 15 or more minutes. In my experience, you can show up at the train station 10 minutes before the train leaves and you're gold. Compared to highway travel, especially over Holidays, expensive fuel and traffic congestion aren't any problem when you take the train. Rail travel does have it's advantages. When you drive, you can't really enjoy the scenery. Trains travel through areas of the country that most people never see. A friend of mine took a trip recently from WA to OR. Due to the long lines, security (take off your shoes, unbuckle your belt, etc.) he hates flying anymore. It's a constant reminder of how 9-11 has changed life in America. He was planning on having his wife drive up, about a 5 hour drive, pick him up and take him back to OR. I asked him why he didn't just take the train. He said he just didn't think about it. I believe that is a small part of the problem. A lot of people just don't even consider rail travel anymore. (On my suggestion, he took the train.)

Back in the '50's & '60's, people were saying that international travel by ship was a thing of the past. Too slow. Too expensive. The great ships were laid up. None were being built for a time. Then something changed. A show called the "Love Boat" came out, in which people travelled for the fun of the trip. Ocean cruises saw a resurgence in popularity, passenger ships started being built again. Today it's a huge industry.

I don't know all the facts. I do believe Americans would return to the rails if it were attractively packaged. The highways and skyways can not compete with the rails when it comes to comfort, relaxation and scenery. You can't see a darn thing from 35,000 feet through that little 10" X 12" window, and the seats are cramped. I myself hate to fly anymore. Everytime I go into an airport and have to deal with all the security measures, it reminds me of 9-11 and the religious nut-cases that brought that upon us. Flying will never be as it was before.
When you drive, you have to watch the road. Traffic on the highways continues to get worse. Fuel prices continue to rise.

So what's the answer? A new TV show called the "Love Train" to romanticize rail travel?
(Just joking boys!) True, even with all the frustration, hassle, and discomfort, when all you want is to get from point A to point B, air travel will never be beat for long distance.
The railroads can't and shouldn't waste their time and resources trying to compete with the airlines. Emphasis needs to be on the advantages of rail travel. Comfort, leisure, leg room, scenery. Especially short distance. I think that if trains got the right exposure, such as celebs airing shows on trains, and if rail travel were made fun for the whole family, headphones at all the seats, video games for the kids, etc., rail travel could find it's niche in 21st century America. Right or wrong, I belive it's all in the packaging.

[jlampke]

I too, would really like to see more people take the train. For short trips, say less than 200 miles or so, there isn't really any time advantage between flying and taking the train anymore. I say that because nowaydays, thanks largely to Muslim Terrorists, you are usually required to be at the airport at least an hour prior to your flight due to all the security requirements. Then there is the time in the air (usually not particularly comfortable unless you can afford 1st class), then you stand around waiting for your bags another 15 or more minutes. In my experience, you can show up at the train station 10 minutes before the train leaves and you're gold. Compared to highway travel, especially over Holidays, expensive fuel and traffic congestion aren't any problem when you take the train. Rail travel does have it's advantages. When you drive, you can't really enjoy the scenery. Trains travel through areas of the country that most people never see. A friend of mine took a trip recently from WA to OR. Due to the long lines, security (take off your shoes, unbuckle your belt, etc.) he hates flying anymore. It's a constant reminder of how 9-11 has changed life in America. He was planning on having his wife drive up, about a 5 hour drive, pick him up and take him back to OR. I asked him why he didn't just take the train. He said he just didn't think about it. I believe that is a small part of the problem. A lot of people just don't even consider rail travel anymore. (On my suggestion, he took the train.)

Back in the '50's & '60's, people were saying that international travel by ship was a thing of the past. Too slow. Too expensive. The great ships were laid up. None were being built for a time. Then something changed. A show called the "Love Boat" came out, in which people travelled for the fun of the trip. Ocean cruises saw a resurgence in popularity, passenger ships started being built again. Today it's a huge industry.

I don't know all the facts. I do believe Americans would return to the rails if it were attractively packaged. The highways and skyways can not compete with the rails when it comes to comfort, relaxation and scenery. You can't see a darn thing from 35,000 feet through that little 10" X 12" window, and the seats are cramped. I myself hate to fly anymore. Everytime I go into an airport and have to deal with all the security measures, it reminds me of 9-11 and the religious nut-cases that brought that upon us. Flying will never be as it was before.
When you drive, you have to watch the road. Traffic on the highways continues to get worse. Fuel prices continue to rise.

So what's the answer? A new TV show called the "Love Train" to romanticize rail travel?
(Just joking boys!) True, even with all the frustration, hassle, and discomfort, when all you want is to get from point A to point B, air travel will never be beat for long distance.
The railroads can't and shouldn't waste their time and resources trying to compete with the airlines. Emphasis needs to be on the advantages of rail travel. Comfort, leisure, leg room, scenery. Especially short distance. I think that if trains got the right exposure, such as celebs airing shows on trains, and if rail travel were made fun for the whole family, headphones at all the seats, video games for the kids, etc., rail travel could find it's niche in 21st century America. Right or wrong, I belive it's all in the packaging.

[Anonymous]

Personally, I would love to see passenger train service expanded in this country.
Realisticly, I doubt it will ever happen.
Amrtak sorely needs more equipment to cover it's existing schedules.
Every car damaged in a mishap already robs another train of equipment.
A major car order is needed, and paid for to keep service credible.
Congress and the freight railroads would love to see these pests go away, rather than try to keep them on schedule and weave through traffic on mains they have to share outside the NEC.
With air travel becoming nitemarish, Amtrak needs an ally with some real clout to get what they need.

Jimmy

[Anonymous]

Personally, I would love to see passenger train service expanded in this country.
Realisticly, I doubt it will ever happen.
Amrtak sorely needs more equipment to cover it's existing schedules.
Every car damaged in a mishap already robs another train of equipment.
A major car order is needed, and paid for to keep service credible.
Congress and the freight railroads would love to see these pests go away, rather than try to keep them on schedule and weave through traffic on mains they have to share outside the NEC.
With air travel becoming nitemarish, Amtrak needs an ally with some real clout to get what they need.

Jimmy

[Anonymous]

I think that the Northeast Corridor such be by itself and not apart of Amtrak.

[Anonymous]

I think that the Northeast Corridor such be by itself and not apart of Amtrak.

[Anonymous]

I am a real free market "Libertarian", as apposed to a corporate welfare conservative. Yes Amtrack was and is railroad welfare, as the interstate highway system is road welfare for auto transportation, trucks and busses, and the massive airline and avaition subsidies are welfare for air travel. All should priviate and pay for the construction, maintenance and operating costs for their respective modes. All interstate highways should be sold as turnpikes, the air traffic control system and airports sold and the airlines billed for the services. Then we would have a truly competitive market system. I am sure rail passenger service would make a come back to a point haven't seen since the 1930s and 40s. Rail is the most efficient anc cost effective means of both goods and people. Let the market decide with a level playing field.

[Anonymous]

I am a real free market "Libertarian", as apposed to a corporate welfare conservative. Yes Amtrack was and is railroad welfare, as the interstate highway system is road welfare for auto transportation, trucks and busses, and the massive airline and avaition subsidies are welfare for air travel. All should priviate and pay for the construction, maintenance and operating costs for their respective modes. All interstate highways should be sold as turnpikes, the air traffic control system and airports sold and the airlines billed for the services. Then we would have a truly competitive market system. I am sure rail passenger service would make a come back to a point haven't seen since the 1930s and 40s. Rail is the most efficient anc cost effective means of both goods and people. Let the market decide with a level playing field.

[passengerfan]

Amtraks major problem is a lack of equipment not a lack of passengers. Time and time again i have tried to make reservations weeks in advance of a trip and been told their is no space available. Sleeping car space seems to sell out first especially in the Superliner equipped trains. Coach space for long distance is not all that enjoyable, I can take a plane and have two, three or four hours in a cramped seat and be their. Thanks for nothing Amtrak I have tried the last four times I wanted to travel to Seattle and back from Sacramento to reserve sleeping car space for the wife and I and even three months in advance is not enough time to get guarnteed sleeping car reservations. The major problem I see with Amtrak is the lack of equipment and or reservation agents that are deliberately telling people trains are sold out months in advance. It certainly is not cheap to travel by amtrak first class so why are the trains sold out months in advance? Is it B S or are the agents just to lazy to book reservations.
If the trains are sold out that far in advance then the problem is Amtrak should be running twenty car Superliner trains twelve hours apart to meet the demand for space. This is one longtime rail passenger who has reached a point where the next time I attempt to reserve space three months in advance for space and am told the space is sold out will be my last time on Amtrak. I will fly first class and pay less and have more time at my destination rather than make the trip part of the vacation. I spent two hours online with Amtrak last night trying for resrvations for July and was repeatedly told their was no space available. Is it a plot by the government to discourage Amtrak passengers or amtrak itself. Yes I am Handicapped and am booking the most expensive Superliner space available so whats the problem. Isn't this a violation of the American's with Diasbility Act? Airlines are not comfortable for any trip longer than three hours without a break for thoise restricted to wheel chairs. So what is amtraks problem. I am seriously considering bringing suit against Amtrak for violation of the ADA act.

[passengerfan]

Amtraks major problem is a lack of equipment not a lack of passengers. Time and time again i have tried to make reservations weeks in advance of a trip and been told their is no space available. Sleeping car space seems to sell out first especially in the Superliner equipped trains. Coach space for long distance is not all that enjoyable, I can take a plane and have two, three or four hours in a cramped seat and be their. Thanks for nothing Amtrak I have tried the last four times I wanted to travel to Seattle and back from Sacramento to reserve sleeping car space for the wife and I and even three months in advance is not enough time to get guarnteed sleeping car reservations. The major problem I see with Amtrak is the lack of equipment and or reservation agents that are deliberately telling people trains are sold out months in advance. It certainly is not cheap to travel by amtrak first class so why are the trains sold out months in advance? Is it B S or are the agents just to lazy to book reservations.
If the trains are sold out that far in advance then the problem is Amtrak should be running twenty car Superliner trains twelve hours apart to meet the demand for space. This is one longtime rail passenger who has reached a point where the next time I attempt to reserve space three months in advance for space and am told the space is sold out will be my last time on Amtrak. I will fly first class and pay less and have more time at my destination rather than make the trip part of the vacation. I spent two hours online with Amtrak last night trying for resrvations for July and was repeatedly told their was no space available. Is it a plot by the government to discourage Amtrak passengers or amtrak itself. Yes I am Handicapped and am booking the most expensive Superliner space available so whats the problem. Isn't this a violation of the American's with Diasbility Act? Airlines are not comfortable for any trip longer than three hours without a break for thoise restricted to wheel chairs. So what is amtraks problem. I am seriously considering bringing suit against Amtrak for violation of the ADA act.

[VerMontanan]

Amtrak has recently posted the ridership statistics for FY2004 at its website. What follows is a station-by-station breakdown of each station on the four long distance trains operating west from Chicago. Ridership is not broken down by train, so in the case where more than one train serves a station, the figures are all inclusive. Still, since most of the stops on these routes are served by only the one long distance train per day, the figures are a good representation of what's used where.

Amtrak carried a record number of riders in 2004, with most trains showing ridership increases. The single most-ridden train in FY 2004 was the Empire Builder, with just over 451,000 patrons.

**


Empire Builder:

Chicago 2,346,748 (served by numerous other Amtrak trains)
Glenview 32,708 (also served by Hiawatha Service trains)
Milwaukee 438,891 (also served by Hiawatha Service trains)
Columbus 12,638
Portage 5,176
Wisconsin Dells 10,480
Tomah 7,794
La Crosse 24,638
Winona 17,808
Red Wing 9,584
St. Paul 172,177
St. Cloud 9,775
Staples 4,776
Detroit Lakes 2,901
Fargo 15,456
Grand Forks 14,638
Devils Lake 4,834
Rugby 5,533
Minot 29,511
Stanley 2,688
Williston 16,659
Wolf Point 7,663
Glasgow 6,126
Malta 3,004
Havre 14,251
Shelby 14,493
Cut Bank 2,573
Browning (seasonal) 1,961
East Glacier (seasonal) 10,081
Essex 3,531
West Glacier 4,011
Whitefish 56,279
Libby 5,071
Sandpoint 4,932
Spokane 37,082
Ephrata 2,483
Wenatchee 12,838
Everett 35,760 (also served by Cascades trains)
Edmonds 25,710 (also served by Cascades trains)
Seattle 590,041 (also served by Cascades trains and Coast Starlight)
Pasco 17,875
Wishram 1,056
Bingen-White Salmon 1,381
Vancouver, WA 71,474 (also served by Cascades trains and Coast Starlight)
Portland, OR 468,016 (also served by Cascades trains and Coast Starlight)
******************************************************************************

California Zephyr:

Chicago 2,346,748 (served by numerous other Amtrak trains)
Naperville 30,845 (also served by Southwest Chief and Illinois Zephyr)
Princeton 16,648 (also served by Southwest Chief and Illinois Zephyr)
Galesburg 63,826 (also served by Southwest Chief and Illinois Zephyr)
Burlington 6,532
Mount Pleasant 12,010
Ottumwa 9,208
Osceola 14,044
Creston 3,894
Omaha 23,007
Lincoln 9,228
Hastings 3,190
Holdege 1,457
McCook 3,423
Fort Morgan 2,767
Denver 123,750
Fraser-Winter Park 9,367
Granby 2,580
Glenwood Springs 30,068
Grand Junction 20,088
Green River 1,174
Helper 1,390
Provo 2,861
Salt Lake City 29,489
Elko 3,041
Winnemucca 2,062
Sparks 24,664 (also served by Reno Fun Train)
Reno 57,079 (also served by Reno Fun Train)
Truckee 6,958
Colfax 2,992
Roseville 55,076 (also served by Capitol Corridor trains)
Sacramento 871,398 (also served by Capitol Corridor, Coast Starlight and special trains)
Davis 305,205 (also served by Capitol Corridor and Coast Starlight trains)
Martinez 288,076 (also served by Capitol Corridor, San Joaquin and Coast Starlight trains)
Emeryville 471,311 (also served by Capitol Corridor, San Joaquin, Coast Starlight and special trains)
******************************************************************************

Southwest Chief:

Chicago 2,346,748 (served by numerous other Amtrak trains)
Naperville 30,845 (also served by California Zephyr and Illinois Zephyr)
Mendota 11,997 (also served by Illinois Zephyr)
Princeton 16,648 (also served by California Zephyr and Illinois Zephyr)
Galesburg 63,826 (also served by California Zephyr and Illinois Zephyr)
Fort Madison 8,667
La Plata 7,336
Kansas City 109,597 (also served by Mules and Ann Rutledge)
Lawrence 2,999
Topeka 5,964
Newton 11,005
Hutchinson 3,149
Dodge City 3,282
Garden City 5,150
Lamar 1,834
La Junta 6,782
Trinidad 3,687
Raton 18,996
Las Vegas 2,717
Lamy 13,264
Albuquerque 58,614
Gallup 8,443
Winslow 2,889
Flagstaff 35,826
Williams Junction 7,454
Kingman 2,950
Needles 12,247
Barstow 2,900
Victorville 3,560
San Bernardino 11,660
Riverside 4,997
Fullerton 375,888 (also served by Pacific Surfliners)
Los Angeles 1,285,922 (served by numerous other Amtrak trains)
******************************************************************************

Texas Eagle (Chicago-San Antonio) and Sunset Limied (San Antonio-Los Angeles):

Chicago 2,346,748 (served by numerous other Amtrak trains)
Joliet 22.466 (also served by Ann Rutledge and State House)
Pontiac 7,462 (also served by Ann Rutledge and State House)
Normal-Bloomington 82,905 (also served by Ann Rutledge and State House)
Lincoln 13,871 (also served by Ann Rutledge and State House)
Springfield 98,623 (also served by Ann Rutledge and State House)
Alton 30,221 (also served by Ann Rutledge and State House)
St. Louis 160,093 (also served by Ann Rutledge, State House, and Mules)
Poplar Bluff 2,687
Walnut Ridge 2,429
Little Rock 13,438
Malvern 1,573
Arkadelphia 843
Texarkana 5,531
Marshall 5,076
Longview 23,692
Mineola 3,923
Dallas 33,409
Fort Worth 73,080 (also served by Heartland Flyer)
Cleburne 1,614
McGregor 2,444
Temple 10,431
Taylor 3,248
Austin 20,934
San Marcos 2,847
San Antonio 46,759
Del Rio 1,140
Sanderson 148
Alpine 1,665
El Paso 9,222
Deming 704
Lordsburg 304
Benson 1,492
Tucson 15,989
Maricopa 7,828
Yuma 1,996
Palm Springs 1,649
Ontario 3,277
Pomona 786
Los Angeles 1,285,922 (served by numerous other Amtrak trains)

[VerMontanan]

Amtrak has recently posted the ridership statistics for FY2004 at its website. What follows is a station-by-station breakdown of each station on the four long distance trains operating west from Chicago. Ridership is not broken down by train, so in the case where more than one train serves a station, the figures are all inclusive. Still, since most of the stops on these routes are served by only the one long distance train per day, the figures are a good representation of what's used where.

Amtrak carried a record number of riders in 2004, with most trains showing ridership increases. The single most-ridden train in FY 2004 was the Empire Builder, with just over 451,000 patrons.

**


Empire Builder:

Chicago 2,346,748 (served by numerous other Amtrak trains)
Glenview 32,708 (also served by Hiawatha Service trains)
Milwaukee 438,891 (also served by Hiawatha Service trains)
Columbus 12,638
Portage 5,176
Wisconsin Dells 10,480
Tomah 7,794
La Crosse 24,638
Winona 17,808
Red Wing 9,584
St. Paul 172,177
St. Cloud 9,775
Staples 4,776
Detroit Lakes 2,901
Fargo 15,456
Grand Forks 14,638
Devils Lake 4,834
Rugby 5,533
Minot 29,511
Stanley 2,688
Williston 16,659
Wolf Point 7,663
Glasgow 6,126
Malta 3,004
Havre 14,251
Shelby 14,493
Cut Bank 2,573
Browning (seasonal) 1,961
East Glacier (seasonal) 10,081
Essex 3,531
West Glacier 4,011
Whitefish 56,279
Libby 5,071
Sandpoint 4,932
Spokane 37,082
Ephrata 2,483
Wenatchee 12,838
Everett 35,760 (also served by Cascades trains)
Edmonds 25,710 (also served by Cascades trains)
Seattle 590,041 (also served by Cascades trains and Coast Starlight)
Pasco 17,875
Wishram 1,056
Bingen-White Salmon 1,381
Vancouver, WA 71,474 (also served by Cascades trains and Coast Starlight)
Portland, OR 468,016 (also served by Cascades trains and Coast Starlight)
******************************************************************************

California Zephyr:

Chicago 2,346,748 (served by numerous other Amtrak trains)
Naperville 30,845 (also served by Southwest Chief and Illinois Zephyr)
Princeton 16,648 (also served by Southwest Chief and Illinois Zephyr)
Galesburg 63,826 (also served by Southwest Chief and Illinois Zephyr)
Burlington 6,532
Mount Pleasant 12,010
Ottumwa 9,208
Osceola 14,044
Creston 3,894
Omaha 23,007
Lincoln 9,228
Hastings 3,190
Holdege 1,457
McCook 3,423
Fort Morgan 2,767
Denver 123,750
Fraser-Winter Park 9,367
Granby 2,580
Glenwood Springs 30,068
Grand Junction 20,088
Green River 1,174
Helper 1,390
Provo 2,861
Salt Lake City 29,489
Elko 3,041
Winnemucca 2,062
Sparks 24,664 (also served by Reno Fun Train)
Reno 57,079 (also served by Reno Fun Train)
Truckee 6,958
Colfax 2,992
Roseville 55,076 (also served by Capitol Corridor trains)
Sacramento 871,398 (also served by Capitol Corridor, Coast Starlight and special trains)
Davis 305,205 (also served by Capitol Corridor and Coast Starlight trains)
Martinez 288,076 (also served by Capitol Corridor, San Joaquin and Coast Starlight trains)
Emeryville 471,311 (also served by Capitol Corridor, San Joaquin, Coast Starlight and special trains)
******************************************************************************

Southwest Chief:

Chicago 2,346,748 (served by numerous other Amtrak trains)
Naperville 30,845 (also served by California Zephyr and Illinois Zephyr)
Mendota 11,997 (also served by Illinois Zephyr)
Princeton 16,648 (also served by California Zephyr and Illinois Zephyr)
Galesburg 63,826 (also served by California Zephyr and Illinois Zephyr)
Fort Madison 8,667
La Plata 7,336
Kansas City 109,597 (also served by Mules and Ann Rutledge)
Lawrence 2,999
Topeka 5,964
Newton 11,005
Hutchinson 3,149
Dodge City 3,282
Garden City 5,150
Lamar 1,834
La Junta 6,782
Trinidad 3,687
Raton 18,996
Las Vegas 2,717
Lamy 13,264
Albuquerque 58,614
Gallup 8,443
Winslow 2,889
Flagstaff 35,826
Williams Junction 7,454
Kingman 2,950
Needles 12,247
Barstow 2,900
Victorville 3,560
San Bernardino 11,660
Riverside 4,997
Fullerton 375,888 (also served by Pacific Surfliners)
Los Angeles 1,285,922 (served by numerous other Amtrak trains)
******************************************************************************

Texas Eagle (Chicago-San Antonio) and Sunset Limied (San Antonio-Los Angeles):

Chicago 2,346,748 (served by numerous other Amtrak trains)
Joliet 22.466 (also served by Ann Rutledge and State House)
Pontiac 7,462 (also served by Ann Rutledge and State House)
Normal-Bloomington 82,905 (also served by Ann Rutledge and State House)
Lincoln 13,871 (also served by Ann Rutledge and State House)
Springfield 98,623 (also served by Ann Rutledge and State House)
Alton 30,221 (also served by Ann Rutledge and State House)
St. Louis 160,093 (also served by Ann Rutledge, State House, and Mules)
Poplar Bluff 2,687
Walnut Ridge 2,429
Little Rock 13,438
Malvern 1,573
Arkadelphia 843
Texarkana 5,531
Marshall 5,076
Longview 23,692
Mineola 3,923
Dallas 33,409
Fort Worth 73,080 (also served by Heartland Flyer)
Cleburne 1,614
McGregor 2,444
Temple 10,431
Taylor 3,248
Austin 20,934
San Marcos 2,847
San Antonio 46,759
Del Rio 1,140
Sanderson 148
Alpine 1,665
El Paso 9,222
Deming 704
Lordsburg 304
Benson 1,492
Tucson 15,989
Maricopa 7,828
Yuma 1,996
Palm Springs 1,649
Ontario 3,277
Pomona 786
Los Angeles 1,285,922 (served by numerous other Amtrak trains)

[VerMontanan]

I do not believe there's been a newspaper that's been more pro-Amtrak than Montana's own Great Falls Tribune over the years. And true to form, here's an editorial from today's (February 6) edition explaining the fallacy of the current administration's recent announcement that the FY2006 budget would contain no funding for Amtrak.

--Mark Meyer

Plan to end Amtrak subsidy must be blocked

Coming off the high of George W. Bush's visit to northcentral Montana this past week, we return to the reality that while the president is popular here, he also advocates some things that would be harmful to this region.

On the very day of the visit, for example, came the news that his spending plan, which he'll submit to Congress Monday, contains nothing for Amtrak, the interstate passenger rail service. Not a penny.

Without a federal subsidy ($1.2 billion in the current year), the national passenger rail monopoly would fail, and quickly. That would open highly profitable intercity routes on the coasts to new operators, and almost certainly leave the rest of us without passenger rail service.

It's a lot of money, to be sure, but before you're dazzled by all those zeroes, note that it's just one-twentieth of what the United States has spent this year alone so Iraqis could vote.

Voting in Iraq isn't a bad thing, but neither is making sure public transportation exists to carry the 130,993 passengers who used Amtrak across Montana last year.

With a bankrupt Amtrak, it is widely believed the busy commuter routes would re-emerge under new ownership, and that the less concentrated cross-country routes — including the Empire Builder in Montana — would be abandoned.

The president's antipathy to Amtrak is not new. He typically budgets less than the operation needs, and then Congress increases it.

Last budget cycle, President Bush proposed shunting the costs off to the states on the theory that if they want it so much, they can pay for it. That didn't fly either.

In this year's budget, he's whacked Amtrak subsidies entirely.

What Amtrak has going for it politically is that it serves 46 states. That means 92 of the 100 senators and a similar proportion of representatives have lots of constituents who love Amtrak.

How much? A national survey a couple of years ago found that 71 percent of Americans believed federal subsidies of Amtrak were about right or not enough — compared with just 17 percent who opposed the subsidies. The rest in those surveyed didn't know or were undecided.

In terms of overall transportation funding, the $30 billion spent on Amtrak over the past 30 years barely merits a decimal point in the almost $2 trillion spent on highways and airports in the same period.

For that, a lower-cost alternative to air travel — seen as desirable in the aftermath of 9/11 — has been maintained within reasonable reach of most Americans.

In Montana, the Empire Builder spans 739 miles, from North Dakota to Idaho across the state's Hi-Line.

"We just plain need the doggoned thing," said Jerry Smith, a Galata farmer/rancher who heads the "Save Amtrak" group.

"We have people in all communities that do use it for medical purposes, besides just visiting," he said. "There really is no substitute for the Builder on the Highway 2 corridor. It's either travel by train or get someone to take you by car."

That alone is reason to keep the trains running. It's worth pointing out further that the passenger train is an important component of the transportation mix in most other nations, and every one of those nations subsidizes the service.

Removing the subsidy entirely, as the president proposes, would be sacrificing an essential service — and one that is potentially important to national security — on the altar of free enterprise.

Passenger rail service in America should be strengthened, not weakened. We trust that Montana's congressional delegates will continue to be resolute in their support of Amtrak. It wouldn't hurt to let them know what you think (see above).


Originally published February 6, 2005

[VerMontanan]

I do not believe there's been a newspaper that's been more pro-Amtrak than Montana's own Great Falls Tribune over the years. And true to form, here's an editorial from today's (February 6) edition explaining the fallacy of the current administration's recent announcement that the FY2006 budget would contain no funding for Amtrak.

--Mark Meyer

Plan to end Amtrak subsidy must be blocked

Coming off the high of George W. Bush's visit to northcentral Montana this past week, we return to the reality that while the president is popular here, he also advocates some things that would be harmful to this region.

On the very day of the visit, for example, came the news that his spending plan, which he'll submit to Congress Monday, contains nothing for Amtrak, the interstate passenger rail service. Not a penny.

Without a federal subsidy ($1.2 billion in the current year), the national passenger rail monopoly would fail, and quickly. That would open highly profitable intercity routes on the coasts to new operators, and almost certainly leave the rest of us without passenger rail service.

It's a lot of money, to be sure, but before you're dazzled by all those zeroes, note that it's just one-twentieth of what the United States has spent this year alone so Iraqis could vote.

Voting in Iraq isn't a bad thing, but neither is making sure public transportation exists to carry the 130,993 passengers who used Amtrak across Montana last year.

With a bankrupt Amtrak, it is widely believed the busy commuter routes would re-emerge under new ownership, and that the less concentrated cross-country routes — including the Empire Builder in Montana — would be abandoned.

The president's antipathy to Amtrak is not new. He typically budgets less than the operation needs, and then Congress increases it.

Last budget cycle, President Bush proposed shunting the costs off to the states on the theory that if they want it so much, they can pay for it. That didn't fly either.

In this year's budget, he's whacked Amtrak subsidies entirely.

What Amtrak has going for it politically is that it serves 46 states. That means 92 of the 100 senators and a similar proportion of representatives have lots of constituents who love Amtrak.

How much? A national survey a couple of years ago found that 71 percent of Americans believed federal subsidies of Amtrak were about right or not enough — compared with just 17 percent who opposed the subsidies. The rest in those surveyed didn't know or were undecided.

In terms of overall transportation funding, the $30 billion spent on Amtrak over the past 30 years barely merits a decimal point in the almost $2 trillion spent on highways and airports in the same period.

For that, a lower-cost alternative to air travel — seen as desirable in the aftermath of 9/11 — has been maintained within reasonable reach of most Americans.

In Montana, the Empire Builder spans 739 miles, from North Dakota to Idaho across the state's Hi-Line.

"We just plain need the doggoned thing," said Jerry Smith, a Galata farmer/rancher who heads the "Save Amtrak" group.

"We have people in all communities that do use it for medical purposes, besides just visiting," he said. "There really is no substitute for the Builder on the Highway 2 corridor. It's either travel by train or get someone to take you by car."

That alone is reason to keep the trains running. It's worth pointing out further that the passenger train is an important component of the transportation mix in most other nations, and every one of those nations subsidizes the service.

Removing the subsidy entirely, as the president proposes, would be sacrificing an essential service — and one that is potentially important to national security — on the altar of free enterprise.

Passenger rail service in America should be strengthened, not weakened. We trust that Montana's congressional delegates will continue to be resolute in their support of Amtrak. It wouldn't hurt to let them know what you think (see above).


Originally published February 6, 2005

[VerMontanan]

One Montana State Senator, Glenn Roush of Cut Bank, is being pro-active in countering the Bush Adminstration's proposal to eliminate all intercity rail passenger service in the United States by introducing this resoluation before the Montana Legislature:

2005 Montana Legislature

UNAPPROVED DRAFT BILL -- Subject to Change Without Notice!

About Bill -- Links

JOINT RESOLUTION NO.

INTRODUCED BY

(Primary Sponsor)

A JOINT RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE STATE OF MONTANA URGING SUPPORT FOR AND CONTINUED FUNDING OF AMTRAK PASSENGER RAIL SERVICE THROUGH MONTANA.



WHEREAS, Amtrak is energy-efficient and environmentally beneficial, consuming about half as much energy per passenger-mile as airlines and causing less air pollution; and

WHEREAS, Amtrak provides mobility to citizens of many smaller communities that are poorly served by air and bus service, as well as to senior citizens, persons with disabilities, students, and persons with medical conditions that prevent them from flying; and

WHEREAS, communities served by Amtrak in Montana are not provided with any other mode of public transportation, and residents of these communities are required to travel up to 200 miles to the nearest airport; and

WHEREAS, 129,044 passengers rode Amtrak across Montana in fiscal year 2004, up from 122,053 in fiscal year 2003; and

WHEREAS, Montana's tourism industry benefits from rail passenger service through the state; and

WHEREAS, Amtrak spent $57,495 for goods and services in Montana in fiscal year 2004, up from $19,800 in fiscal year 2003; and

WHEREAS, during fiscal year 2004, Amtrak employed 57 Montanans, who earned a total of $3,293,052 in wages; and

WHEREAS, according to a February 6, 2005, editorial in the Great Falls Tribune, a recent national survey found that 71% of Americans believe federal subsidies of Amtrak are about right or not enough; and

WHEREAS, Amtrak is vital to the economy of Montana's northern tier, as indicated by a recent study by R.L. Banks & Associates that concluded that Amtrak's Empire Builder contributes nearly $14 million annually in economic benefits to the State of Montana.



NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE STATE OF MONTANA:

That the 59th Montana Legislature urge Montana's Congressional Delegation to support continued Amtrak passenger rail service through Montana.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the 59th Montana Legislature urge the President and the United States Congress to include funding for Amtrak in any spending plan that is adopted.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Secretary of State send copies of this resolution to Montana's Congressional Delegation.

- END -

[VerMontanan]

One Montana State Senator, Glenn Roush of Cut Bank, is being pro-active in countering the Bush Adminstration's proposal to eliminate all intercity rail passenger service in the United States by introducing this resoluation before the Montana Legislature:

2005 Montana Legislature

UNAPPROVED DRAFT BILL -- Subject to Change Without Notice!

About Bill -- Links

JOINT RESOLUTION NO.

INTRODUCED BY

(Primary Sponsor)

A JOINT RESOLUTION OF THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE STATE OF MONTANA URGING SUPPORT FOR AND CONTINUED FUNDING OF AMTRAK PASSENGER RAIL SERVICE THROUGH MONTANA.



WHEREAS, Amtrak is energy-efficient and environmentally beneficial, consuming about half as much energy per passenger-mile as airlines and causing less air pollution; and

WHEREAS, Amtrak provides mobility to citizens of many smaller communities that are poorly served by air and bus service, as well as to senior citizens, persons with disabilities, students, and persons with medical conditions that prevent them from flying; and

WHEREAS, communities served by Amtrak in Montana are not provided with any other mode of public transportation, and residents of these communities are required to travel up to 200 miles to the nearest airport; and

WHEREAS, 129,044 passengers rode Amtrak across Montana in fiscal year 2004, up from 122,053 in fiscal year 2003; and

WHEREAS, Montana's tourism industry benefits from rail passenger service through the state; and

WHEREAS, Amtrak spent $57,495 for goods and services in Montana in fiscal year 2004, up from $19,800 in fiscal year 2003; and

WHEREAS, during fiscal year 2004, Amtrak employed 57 Montanans, who earned a total of $3,293,052 in wages; and

WHEREAS, according to a February 6, 2005, editorial in the Great Falls Tribune, a recent national survey found that 71% of Americans believe federal subsidies of Amtrak are about right or not enough; and

WHEREAS, Amtrak is vital to the economy of Montana's northern tier, as indicated by a recent study by R.L. Banks & Associates that concluded that Amtrak's Empire Builder contributes nearly $14 million annually in economic benefits to the State of Montana.



NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE STATE OF MONTANA:

That the 59th Montana Legislature urge Montana's Congressional Delegation to support continued Amtrak passenger rail service through Montana.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the 59th Montana Legislature urge the President and the United States Congress to include funding for Amtrak in any spending plan that is adopted.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Secretary of State send copies of this resolution to Montana's Congressional Delegation.

- END -

[Anonymous]

Sad to say that looking back over 30 years, there is precious little new equipment (except for the cascades and acela trains) developed. The "future" seems to be stuck in 1974. Much as I like Amtrak and do ride at least once or twice a year. The only future we will see is a few commuter lines in the northeast, northwest, califirnia, and the chicago area. I have been contacting my congressmen for twenty years and I am tired of the whole thing. I can still drive for the next thirty five years (I'm 43) and there is air service. The tax policies of this government (the US not the current administration) are too far skewed for passenger rail as we knew it to exist.

[Anonymous]

Sad to say that looking back over 30 years, there is precious little new equipment (except for the cascades and acela trains) developed. The "future" seems to be stuck in 1974. Much as I like Amtrak and do ride at least once or twice a year. The only future we will see is a few commuter lines in the northeast, northwest, califirnia, and the chicago area. I have been contacting my congressmen for twenty years and I am tired of the whole thing. I can still drive for the next thirty five years (I'm 43) and there is air service. The tax policies of this government (the US not the current administration) are too far skewed for passenger rail as we knew it to exist.

[siberianmo]

Hello all,

Well, here it is February 2005, and I thought I'd keep this conversation going .... an interesting one indeed.

Several years ago I terminated my affiliation with a group of people who meet in our state capital (Jefferson City, Missouri) for quarterly meetings with government - Amtrak - chambers of commerce - tourism organizations and passenger rail enthusiasts (represented by a group, rather than individual). This organization was put together as a semi-governmental body with the purpose of putting together reasonable solutions to the operating, administrative and budgetary problems encountered by Amtrak and therefore, the traveling public.

For now, I would rather not get into the particulars insofar as the major players were - for many of them probably are still at it. So please let me continue with this caveat: What I have to say represents my thoughts based on my involvements and observations at four years of meetings - that's about 16 in total.

In Missouri, Amtrak has two intra-state trains totally subsidized by our taxpayers. These trains cross the state daily from St. Louis to Kansas City/Kansas City to St. Louis. There are two others that operate on subsidies from an adjacent state and of coure, the federal government, providing daily service between Kansas City - St. Louis and Chicago/Chicago - St. Louis - Kansas City. Additionally, four Amtrak trains traverse our landscape as long distance trains - the Texas Eagle (north & south) and the Southwest Chief (east & west). No state subsidies are provided for these long distance trains.

About 12 years ago, Amtak threatened to do one of two things impacting our intra-state trains: (1) Cut back service by one-half or (2) eliminate service entirely. These threats were made as a result of insufficient funds to meet the operating costs projected for the ensuing fiscal year. I became very invoved with an effort to let Amtrak know that many of us simply would not put up with the cessation of passenger train service without a fight. As a result, many of us were able to put together effective petition lists demanding help from our state and federal governments. At the time, I was with our local police department and wound up getting over 1,000 signatures to help with our cause. (Hmmm, I always wondered about that connection!) To make a long story short - we won - more or less. The trains are still operating within our state.

Many of the people who sat at that large rectangular table during our quarterly meetings had not ridden a passenger train in decades - if ever. Others simply were there representing their particular communities along the intra-state route in question - the Chamber of Commerce people along with the Tourism folks and either the Mayors from the towns/cities or their representatives. The decisions we came up with ran the spectrum from more bicycles on the train to cleaner station restrooms to better on time performance to more advertising to ...... I'm sure you get my point.

At no time during my four years of attendance and interaction do I recall any serious discussion of getting on board with a high speed rail corridor and of course, a demand for a state and national transportation plan that would take us into the future. Nah, we were more concerned with the comparative minutia and mundane than the actual future of passenger rail service. So, I simply stopped going.

Now, a little about me: I love passenger trains and I ride 'em whenever possible, even if it is only a day trip to and from Jeffereson City or Kansas City. My wife and I have ridden Via Rail trains for nearly 15 years and will continue to do so. To compare what is offered north of our border to what we have with Amtrak is to say that the old Marx electric trains are an equivalent to the Lionel trains of the day. Just no comparison. But is that to say that there are no problems in Canuckistan? (Sorry, that just slipped out! We are a Canadian-American family, so perhaps I can get by with it this time!) Of course there are. Whenever government gets involved, you wind up having to pander to those who have no clue regarding the difference between a truck (railroad) and a truck (highway)! When legislators take to the floor and pontificate for hours on end about this or that, you can be sure they are buying time for their interns to come up with something profound that they can use to wrap up the discussion on which they really have very little or any knowledge of! Sorry for those of you who may be more politically inclined than I, but again, I refer to MY thoughts and observations.

So, what's the future for the American Passenger train? Grim is the word that comes to mind. The reasons are all well documented in the four pages I have read on this discussion forum. Much of what has been said I fully agree with and others somewhat, with yet a slim few falling outside of my ability to reason. I do think that Amtrak will wind up as a regional entity and I believe that long distance travel will be dramatically changed from the way it is today. It appears to me that more of a point to point day trip system will be put into place. For example, take a trip from Chicago to Seattle. With a morning departure in Chicago the train would stop at whatever point is reasonable for a day trip - perhaps 12 hours. Passengers would have to stay in hotels for the night, then board either the same or a different one for the continuation along the way. Now, before you jump all over me about what a stupid and ridiculous idea this is - please think about it first. I am not saying that this idea is a good one or the best one or one that every one will accept, but I do see it as an alternative to where we are headed a present time.

I have heard this notion discussion before - it is not entirely from my aging gray matter. In fact, there are some north of our border who have openly kicked around the idea as well. Why? Because long distance trains just cost too much money in equipment and personnel compared to what is recouped at the cash box. It is that simple. These trains have to be staffed with sleeping cars and attendants - full service diners - along with all the supplies and provisions required. Dropping those cars and employees spells savings in dollars - real and projected; operational and maintenance.

What I want to happen is not what I think will happen. My love for the passenger train will stay with me for the remainder of my life. There is one thing that no one, including government, can take from me. When those passenger trains become a distant memory, at least I will have the memories!

Happy railroading!

Siberianmo

[siberianmo]

Hello all,

Well, here it is February 2005, and I thought I'd keep this conversation going .... an interesting one indeed.

Several years ago I terminated my affiliation with a group of people who meet in our state capital (Jefferson City, Missouri) for quarterly meetings with government - Amtrak - chambers of commerce - tourism organizations and passenger rail enthusiasts (represented by a group, rather than individual). This organization was put together as a semi-governmental body with the purpose of putting together reasonable solutions to the operating, administrative and budgetary problems encountered by Amtrak and therefore, the traveling public.

For now, I would rather not get into the particulars insofar as the major players were - for many of them probably are still at it. So please let me continue with this caveat: What I have to say represents my thoughts based on my involvements and observations at four years of meetings - that's about 16 in total.

In Missouri, Amtrak has two intra-state trains totally subsidized by our taxpayers. These trains cross the state daily from St. Louis to Kansas City/Kansas City to St. Louis. There are two others that operate on subsidies from an adjacent state and of coure, the federal government, providing daily service between Kansas City - St. Louis and Chicago/Chicago - St. Louis - Kansas City. Additionally, four Amtrak trains traverse our landscape as long distance trains - the Texas Eagle (north & south) and the Southwest Chief (east & west). No state subsidies are provided for these long distance trains.

About 12 years ago, Amtak threatened to do one of two things impacting our intra-state trains: (1) Cut back service by one-half or (2) eliminate service entirely. These threats were made as a result of insufficient funds to meet the operating costs projected for the ensuing fiscal year. I became very invoved with an effort to let Amtrak know that many of us simply would not put up with the cessation of passenger train service without a fight. As a result, many of us were able to put together effective petition lists demanding help from our state and federal governments. At the time, I was with our local police department and wound up getting over 1,000 signatures to help with our cause. (Hmmm, I always wondered about that connection!) To make a long story short - we won - more or less. The trains are still operating within our state.

Many of the people who sat at that large rectangular table during our quarterly meetings had not ridden a passenger train in decades - if ever. Others simply were there representing their particular communities along the intra-state route in question - the Chamber of Commerce people along with the Tourism folks and either the Mayors from the towns/cities or their representatives. The decisions we came up with ran the spectrum from more bicycles on the train to cleaner station restrooms to better on time performance to more advertising to ...... I'm sure you get my point.

At no time during my four years of attendance and interaction do I recall any serious discussion of getting on board with a high speed rail corridor and of course, a demand for a state and national transportation plan that would take us into the future. Nah, we were more concerned with the comparative minutia and mundane than the actual future of passenger rail service. So, I simply stopped going.

Now, a little about me: I love passenger trains and I ride 'em whenever possible, even if it is only a day trip to and from Jeffereson City or Kansas City. My wife and I have ridden Via Rail trains for nearly 15 years and will continue to do so. To compare what is offered north of our border to what we have with Amtrak is to say that the old Marx electric trains are an equivalent to the Lionel trains of the day. Just no comparison. But is that to say that there are no problems in Canuckistan? (Sorry, that just slipped out! We are a Canadian-American family, so perhaps I can get by with it this time!) Of course there are. Whenever government gets involved, you wind up having to pander to those who have no clue regarding the difference between a truck (railroad) and a truck (highway)! When legislators take to the floor and pontificate for hours on end about this or that, you can be sure they are buying time for their interns to come up with something profound that they can use to wrap up the discussion on which they really have very little or any knowledge of! Sorry for those of you who may be more politically inclined than I, but again, I refer to MY thoughts and observations.

So, what's the future for the American Passenger train? Grim is the word that comes to mind. The reasons are all well documented in the four pages I have read on this discussion forum. Much of what has been said I fully agree with and others somewhat, with yet a slim few falling outside of my ability to reason. I do think that Amtrak will wind up as a regional entity and I believe that long distance travel will be dramatically changed from the way it is today. It appears to me that more of a point to point day trip system will be put into place. For example, take a trip from Chicago to Seattle. With a morning departure in Chicago the train would stop at whatever point is reasonable for a day trip - perhaps 12 hours. Passengers would have to stay in hotels for the night, then board either the same or a different one for the continuation along the way. Now, before you jump all over me about what a stupid and ridiculous idea this is - please think about it first. I am not saying that this idea is a good one or the best one or one that every one will accept, but I do see it as an alternative to where we are headed a present time.

I have heard this notion discussion before - it is not entirely from my aging gray matter. In fact, there are some north of our border who have openly kicked around the idea as well. Why? Because long distance trains just cost too much money in equipment and personnel compared to what is recouped at the cash box. It is that simple. These trains have to be staffed with sleeping cars and attendants - full service diners - along with all the supplies and provisions required. Dropping those cars and employees spells savings in dollars - real and projected; operational and maintenance.

What I want to happen is not what I think will happen. My love for the passenger train will stay with me for the remainder of my life. There is one thing that no one, including government, can take from me. When those passenger trains become a distant memory, at least I will have the memories!

Happy railroading!

Siberianmo

[ValorStorm]

"13,000+ people boarding a year in Montana? Where did you get those figures?"

I got them from YOU, In your first posting. Be more clear next time. In fact, I'm tired. You win.