Why the Olympian Hiawatha???

[Anonymous]

Why was the Olympian Hiawatha discontinued so soon (in 1961) ??? The flagships of other railroads lasted much longer, mostly up to Amtrak, and that´s 10 years later than the date of of the OH´s discontinuance. Why wasn´t that train so succesfull? Was it really that uncomfortable and unluxurious? And when was the Minneapolis-Deer Lodge remnant of that train discontinued?

[nanaimo73]

It pulled back from Deer Lodge to Aberdeen, South Dakota in January 1964.

[passengerfan]

Having ridden all four of the Northwests premier trains and writing about passenger trains I will try to answer your question.

First the coaches on the OH had no leg rest seats The EMPIRE BUILDER, WESTERN STAR, NORTH COAST LIMITED and CITY OF PORTLAND all had leg rest seat coaches.

The NCL served most major cities in Montana and Washington served by the OH and beginning in 1954 the NCL EB and OH all operated 45 hour schedules.

Both the EB and NCL offered more dome seats. In the heat of the summer the OH domelevel was almost unbearable due to the heat. The problem the full length P/S domes had with air conditioning was never solved until the cars became the property of Princess California Sun Express.

The OH offered Tourist sleepers using sections they called Touralux cars. The NCL operated Slumbercoaches with all private room accomodations.

The EB was the finest of them all.

The City of Portland was the fastest between Chicago and Portland but not the fastest to Seattle.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for that info, passengerfan.
And there´s still one thing I would like to know:
Why was the Olympian Hiawatha painted in UP yellow in 1957? As far as I know, MILW was never under UP´s banner. Is it probably because MILW started operating UP´s City Streamliners east of Omaha in 1955?

[passengerfan]

Exactly right about the MILW painting their passenger equipment in UP yellow as they had to contribute equipment to the CITY streamliner pool and the UP paint job was cheaper to apply then the Milwaukee colors. C&NW always maintained their own colors when they operated the CITY trains but Milwaukee took the cheapest way out.

[Anonymous]

I cannot agree that the EB was "finest of them all" I worked in the dining car dept of the NP (NCL) in mid to late 40's. There were 2 sections then and I worked both. The all pullman section was as good as any first class hotel. The equipment of the EB and NCL was almost identical except for livery. I was aboard during transition from steam (mostly 4-8-4's, including 2626 to the EMD diesels. The NP dining cars had several thousand dollars worth of silver service in each car

[passengerfan]

I rode the NCL on several occasions between Seattle and St. Paul and once all the way to Chicago. I never rode the heavyweight NCL only the lightweight train with and without domes.
I first rode the EB in February 1947 when the streamlined version was new and it became an every year event for the family. I do belive the GN Commisssary Department carried several thousand dollars of silver in their dining cars was well.

The one thing on the NP I do remember was the great big baked potato for a seven year old it was a meal in itself. The other thing I remember on the NCL was Sue the Stewardess Nurse.

As we traveled so often on the Empire Builder my dad got to know several of the Dining car Stewards and even several of the Pullman Car porters that were regulars on that particular train.

I certainly enjoyed the Raymond Loewy two-tone green paint scheme adopted by the NCL but the EB colors were my favorites until they switched to the Big Sky Blue.

From all of my readings of the EB it two ran during WW II as an all Pullman Section and a coach section.

I guess it is just personal preference but the EB was my favorite.

[Anonymous]

You are right about the NP's" Great Big Baked Potato". We had a special oval dish on which they were served. They were Idaho Russets specified at no more than 80 potatoes to the 100# sack. Do the math!

Also, on sections, when the Pacific War ended, we often ran MORE than two sections to accomodate the thousands of servicemen returning.
I remember them being 'frisked' at the King St. station in SEA and all those hundreds of bottles smahed against the rails end buffers.

Another memory of that time was returing Japanese kids from the WW II concentrations camps set up by Roosevelt.
The ones I met, about my same age at the time, were none the worse for wear, at least on the outside.
I think the NP served more and largere cities than the GN.

[passengerfan]

I think you are right about the NP serving a greater population area than the GN. After the GN turned east from Everett their was only Wenatchee before Spokane of any size. Where on the NP after they turned east at Auburn their was Yakima and Pasco both more than double the size of Wenatchee. And crossing Montana the GN missed all of the major population centers. But the NP had the Milwaukee serving many of the same Montana centers of population.
And today the Interstate follows much of the former NP route while the former GN route has little two lane highway 2 for most of its route across Washington, Montana and North Dakota.
If you are interested in Classic trains try "Our Place" in the classic trains forum nice friendly bunch of people and lots of classic train talk.

[erikem]

The NP reached the most population centers of all the RR's in Montana, the only major city it didn't serve was Great Falls (Great Northern and Milw). If I recall correctly, Great Falls wasn't served by any of major transcon trains. The Milwaukee ran quite a bit north of Billings, which has been Montana's largest city for several decades.

I do have vague memories of riding the OH in 1957 from Seattle to Miles City, was only 33 months old at the time. I also have fond memories of the North Coast Hiawatha from 1976, the best French toast I've ever had was in an ex-Santa Fe diner going through Paradise, MT.

[Anonymous]

hey sando, can you tell me in which year the last NP steam locos were dropped from NCL service? Did the NP steamers ever do service on the Pine Tree NCL ?

[passengerfan]

Erikem The Great Northern EMPIRE BUILDER always served Great Falls with a spur train from Havre. For many years the WESTERN STAR left the main line at Havre and ran to Great Falls rejoining the mainline at Shelby. For many years the WESTERN STAR also had a dedicated sleeping cars to and from Great Falls frrom and to St. Paul.

[PBenham]

The point here is that the Milwaukee's transcon was built too late and duplicated service to points already served by Great Northern or Northern Pacific. Only GN consistently made money on that route. NP and CMStP&P had their problems, although NP's were over after James J. Hill bought NP for a song following the panic of 1893! It then took nearly 80 years to merge them, thanks to the ICC! The train was a fine one to ride by the accounts I have read. It had some of the finest domes and the superb sleeper-obs, which went to CN. They rode a bit rough, but that was not why the Olymian Hiawatha left the scene in 1961-4. Freight service on the MILW's line didn't even last a quarter century after the Hi ran it's last. They couldn't compete with BN or UP.

[Anonymous]

Deluxe:
Do you mean the Pine Tree livery" As far as I can remember, the consit(s) came complerte from the EMD engines to the Pullmans, all painted in the two greens. I don't remember ever being pilled by steam after the new NCL's arrived. Tthat started near the end of WWII
.
I'm having trouble navigating here -- hope I get the hang of these forums, etc. Bear with me TNX