ATSF El Capitan-Super Chief and SP Sunset just before AMTRAK in 1970

[Anonymous]

I had enlisted in the Navy in the summer of 1970, and after basic training in Orlando, FL, I was sent to a Navy service school near Chicago. By the last part of December, 1970, I had received my orders to go to San Diego, and join an aircraft carrier heading for Vietnam. So, I decided to take the train from Chicago to San Diego.
Where I was attending a Navy service school just north of Chicago, that area was served by the Chicago and Northwestern commuter and passenger line, so just about any time I had free time, I took one of the C&NW commuter trains to Chicago. Although commuter trains do not accurately reflect passenger train service as it was just prior to AMTRAK, riding those C&NW commuter really made me want to take a long train trip somewhere, and my being sent all the way to San Diego from Chicago gave me that opportunity.
On the day (Late in December of 1970)t hat I was to leave Chicago, I went to the C&NW commuter station adjacent to the Navy base where I had been attending their service school, and I asked the C&NW ticket agent if she could ticket me all the way to San Diego. The lady politely told me that all she could do was sell me a commuter ticket (or was it a token) for a one way trip to Chicago, but she could not sell me a ticket to San Diego, because the C&NW commuter service had no dealings with long haul passenger service. However the C&NW ticket agent did have the schedule pamphlets of the two railroads that operated long haul passenger trains from Chicago to Los Angeles. One was the Santa Fe railroad, which operated the El Capitan-Super Chief out of Dearborn Station in Chicago to Los Angeles. Both trains made decent connections in Los Angeles with Santa Fe San Diegan trains to San Diego.
For some reason, and I don't know why, I decided to take the ATSF El Capitan-Super Chief to Los Angeles, so I eventually called a taxicab, and went to Dearborn Station in Chicago, where I bought my ticket on ATSF to SanDiego.
The El Capitan-Super Chief left Chicago on time, but, as the train progressed west, it steadily lost time for some reason, even though it had to be racing at 90-100 mph in northern Arizona. The El Captian coach seat I paid for was excellent. It was basically a Lazy-Boy type reclining seat with leg and foot rests.
The dining car was decent, and not overly expensive according to what I remember. And, the train was really clean, warm, and deodorized from one end to another. It also had a trainwide communications system with loudspeakers in every car; and all of it worked impeccably!
The run from Chicago was to be about 40 hours in length, but we arrived at the Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal about an hour and a half late. I caught a San Diegan shortly after arriving in LA, so I was in San Diego in plenty of time to catch my ship I had been assigned. Later on, I found out that the fare I had been charged by ATSF to ride the El Capitan-Super Chief was somewhat more (It was extra fare) than what I would have had to pay to go from Chicago to Los Angeles on The City of Los Angeles, but, I enjoyed the entire trip, so I didn't mind.
Oddly, the next day when I joined my ship, I found that it was not scheduled to sail to Vietnam until mid January of 1971, so that all of its crew could have Christmas leave. So, I asked for and also got a Christmas leave.
My parents lived in south Texas at the time, so I decided to take a train, if there was one, from Los Angeles to San Antonio. Sure enough the Southern Pacific Railroad's Sunset Limited ran three days a week in those days from Los Angeles to New Orleans, with San Antonio a stop on the Sunset's route.
I had heard of the many stories about how SP was trying to discourage passengers from riding the Sunset Limited any more so that it could get legal authority to discontinue this train. A lady who worked for SP near where my parents live told me that the Sunset had no Pullmans, no dining car, and it used heavyweight commuter train cars from its commuter train service in the San Francisco Bay area, rather than reclining seat coaches. The lady even said the seats in these commuter cars were fixed and upright, with no capacity to recline at all.
Even worse, when I got my ticket to take this train from Los Angeles to San Antonio, I was charged another extra fare. In addition to this, I was told by the Los Angeles ticket agent that the Sunset Limited was scheduled to leave Los Angeles at 10:30 PM that night, which I thought was rather late for a train to start out.
When 10:30 PM came around that night at the Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal, those of us who were waiting to board the Sunset Limited had to wait even longer. The train was not ready for boarding for another 30 minutes, so we did not even leave Los Angeles until nearly an hour later than scheduled. The Sunset Limited never came close to reaching the speeds that the El Capitan-Super Chief did, and unlike ATSF, Espee made the Sunset pull onto sidings for every freight train that came by, causing us to be later and later by the hour.
However, I was surprised to see that for some reason Espee had put a dining car and Pullmans back on the Sunset. Also, the coaches were all equipped with reclining seats and legrests. I even saw the coach porters periodically sweeping the floors of the coaches, and wiping the bathroom fixtures after ever stop.
To my even more surprise, the food on the Espee dining car of the Sunset was actually better and more generous in portion to that of the El Capitan-Super Chief. So, despite the continual pulling over for Espee freights, I really enjoyed the trip from Los Angeles to San Antonio.on the Sunset.
Later on, I also got to ride the Southern Railway's Crescent from New Orleans to New York before the Southern Railway joined AMTRAK. This train matched the ATSF's El Capitan-Super Chief in quality of service and cleanliness, and like the El Capitan-Super Chief, the Crescent was run at very high rates of speed.. The Southern Railway apparently wooed its passenger to the day it joined AMTRAK, because it had a big column on the back of its dining car menus, telling its passengers that it hoped they would take its trains every time they needed or wanted to travel.
All-in all, I noticed that the time I rode these trains, the railroads operating them, even ine infamous Espee, did make an effort to provide quality service, at least in part, such as the superior food service I got on Espee's diner on their Sunset. So, what I enjoyed about these trains far outweighed what I saw to be a drawback. In fact, I miss them, and the railroads that operated them.

[espeefoamer]

Sometime in 1970,the Southern Pacific put dining and sleeping cars back on the Sunset Limited.This was in exchange for being allowed to reduce the frequency of service from daily to tri weekly.
Before this time the train ran daily, but was coach only with just an Automat [xx(] for food service.AFIK the SP never ran the heavyweight commute coaches on the Sunset,but I have heard of SP running non reclining seat streamlined coaches on this train.
I saw the Sunset once in October 1969. it consisted of one loco,bagggage car two coches,automat,and three more coaches.Very sad consist[:(].

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by caveman613
...Southern Railway's Crescent from New Orleans to New York before the Southern Railway joined AMTRAK.

When did the Southern join Amtrak? I thought they were one of the original holdouts like D&RGW. D&RGW joined in what 1979-1980?

[Anonymous]

I think Southern finally gave up its independence in 76-77. D&RGW was the last of the holdouts. I was on the last RG Zephyr to Amtrak.

[daveklepper]

If you were on the last Rio Grande Zephyr, you road it only to Grand Junction, with a bus connection to Salt Lake City and then a van or taxi to Ogden. The Thistle mud slide that closed the D&RGW main line occured about five or six weeks before the Amtrak takeover of the service, and the D&RGW ran its three-times-a-week train only to Grand Junction on the regular schedule with bus each way to Salt Lake City close to the regular schedule. Amtrak did not reroute its train over the D&RGW until the line was reopened with the new and current tunnel. Meanwhile, the schedule was protected with a Denver - Ogden bus that connected with the train at both ends.

On of my last trips i decided to skip the bus and flew from Grand Junction to Denver and the pilot made a special effort for everyone to see the mudslide and the construction of the replacement railroad and highway.

[Anonymous]

Fantastic stories, caveman613! Thanks for sharing them! I always love hearing about the great old passenger trains that ran in the days before Amtrak. I wish I could have been around to experience them as you did, but, sadly, I was born far to late.

By the way, to set the record straight about how long the Amtrak holdouts held out, the Crescent ran until Feb. 1, 1979 and the Rio Grande Zephyr until Apr. 23/24, 1983.

[daveklepper]

Note that the classic Crescent was an all Pullman train, even into the lightweight car era, that did not run on the all-Southern route via Birmingham, but on the slightly shorter route using the "West Point Route" to Montogomery and then the Lousville and Nashville to Flomaton, junction with the Gulf Coast route, and then west to New Orleans. I am not sure what years it received coaches and what year it was rerouted via Birmingham, the pressent route of the Amtrak train. The Southern had the all-coach streamliner, the Southerner, that ran via Birmingham. The Southern also had a coach and sleeper train that went via Montgomery and the L&N, the Piedmont Limited. In the '60's all these trains gave good service with fine dining cars, clean equipment, reasonably on time performance, and friendly crews.

[cnw4001]

I don't know if it is available for purchase but the Pittsburgh PBS station recently ran a one hour show on the Super Chief.

You would certainly enjoy same.

WQED is the station.