SLUMBERCOACH! a/k/a Sleepercoach

[daveklepper]

In 1960, the New Haven ran a "Dollar-Saver-Sleeper" on the Owl between New York and Boston, in addition to the lightweight 10&6 cars. This was a regular six-wheel truck heavyweight 12-section and double-bedroom car, and the fare was considerably less than regular first class plus roomette.

[Anonymous]

Mountain View and Tower View were leased to SCL and, in winters at least, operated some years as part of the Florida Special from Richmond to Miami.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

But when the General was renamed the Broadway, didn't rear end blunt end observation cars Mountain View and Tower View continue for some time? Possibly right up to Amtrak?

The observation cars were dropped in 1967 when the Broadway schedule (28-29) was discontinued and the General (48-49) was renamed.

[daveklepper]

But when the General was renamed the Broadway, didn't rear end blunt end observation cars Mountain View and Tower View continue for some time? Possibly right up to Amtrak?

[passengerfan]

Another bargain in sleeping accommodation was operated for a year or two on the GN Western Star when they operated a 16 Duplex Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Glacier series sleeper between St. Paul and Seattle at Slumbercoach rates to compete with the NP Mainstreeter and North Coast Limited.

[Anonymous]

Dave Klepper: The Broadway Limited, Nos. 28 and 29, was discontinued December 13, 1967. The General, Nos. 48 and 49, was renamed the Broadway Limited and from that point forward, it was a coach and sleeper train.

I believe the Rio Grande train you're thinking of was the Scenic Limited (I believe originally a MoPac-Rio Grande-WP train). It was gone by the time you're discussing though. I believe it was renamed the Royal Gorge when it lost its connection from the east. In the 1950s, the Royal Gorge was an all-day affair from Denver via Pueblo to Grand Junction where it was consolidated with the Prospector for the run into Salt Lake City.

Coast Line trains to Florida (East Coast Champion and maybe the West Coast Champion) also carried City of Denver-style Slumbercoaches (although I think they were called Budget Room Coaches). They were usually all-roomette sleepers. Regular 10-6s assigned to the train were replaced with ex-B&O 16 duplex roomette-4 bedroom sleepers so that the first class passengers buying 1 person accommodations would have something different from the Budget Room passengers.

[ZephyrOverland]

In a number of past Amtrak trips, I rode Slumbercoach on the Broadway Limited from Chicago to Philadelphia. Yes it was a little cramped, but it was a private room for only a little more than a coach seat. I always ended up getting a "lower" room, which I prefered. I didn't really care for the coffin-life effect of the lower third of the bed being over part of the next-door upper room. Also, the bedding was not as substantial as one would typically find in a roomette. But again, it was a good travel value and I preferred the privacy of an enclosed room.

Around 1995, I booked a Slumbercoach on the Cardinal from Chicago to Washington. Appearently, the regular car was out of service and I ended up getting a roomette in a 10-6 that was subbing for the Slumbercoach. Of course, I appreciated the extra room, but the bedding was severly worn out - the center of the mattress literally sunk in.

My last trip on a Slumbercoach took place a few months later, near the end of operation of the Broadway Limited. I did a Chicago-New York round trip, and in both directions I had a room in Monroe Harbor, an ex-New York Central rebuild. My previous Slumbercoach experiences were on the ex-CBQ and NP cars, so riding in Monroe Harbor was a pleasant surprise. Fortunately, I was assigned to the first single room next to the double rooms. Appearently, to compensate for the placements of the rooms between the single and double rooms, the room I was assigned to, and the one across the hall, was larger than the standard single Slumbercoach room. The room size was almost as big as a roomette, but the interior fixtures were the standard Slumbercoach type.

It was unfortunate when Amtrak retired all of their Slumbercoach cars and did not replace them with a similiar service. There was (and is) definitely a market for such service.

[daveklepper]

Artschlosser is correct about the single rooms in the slumber coaches/sleeper coaches, but the double rooms occupied the space of a regular roomette and were similar to modern Amtrak economy rooms in Superliners. More details: The slumbercoach to Colorado Springs from the Denver Zephyr was handled in the Joint D&RG-AT&SF-Colorado Southern (Burlington System) Denver-Pueblo train that was really the D&RGW's Denver - Pueblo - Royal Gorge - Tennessee Pass - Grand Junction train. A coach or possibly the dome-coach-snack car built originally for the Chessie, continued through to Salt Lake City at the back of the Prospector, which was the really great Denver - Salt Lake City overnight train via the Moffat Tunnel. (The dining car was even better than the California Zephyr!) I don't recall if the Burlington equipment was the Texas Zephyr, but I think not, possibly just coaches off the Denver Zephyr. But there were both a sleeper and a coach connection for the Chief (not the Super Chief) for Los Angeles. Usually, D&RGW power was used. Once I also saw Rock Island equipment on this train, being moved from Colorado Springs to Denver, but this was probably a non-revenue move.

Rather quickly the Burlington learned they did not need both the Colorado Springs slumbercoach and the Denver slumbercoach on the Denver Zephyr. The Denver slumbercoach line was taken off and a slumbercoach began running overnight on the Blackhawk, the Burlington's overnight Chicago - Twin Cities train, replacing the overnight 6 and 10's to reduce car mileage and increase capacity as well as take business from the Milwaukee's Pioneer Limited through a lower fair, which it did. The Colorado Spings car continued a lot longer, but then it was cut back to Denver, I believe even before passenger service on the "Joint" was discontinued. In my day there were, I believe, three trains each way on the "Joint." The train described, the Texas Zephyr, and the Colorado Eagle off the Missouri Pacific. The D&RGW passenger trains were the made up of the California Zephyr, the Yampa Valley Mail, the Prospector, the Panorama Limited (I think that was the name, although it might have been the Scenic Limited), which was also the joint train) and the winter Ski Train.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Art, I always wanted to hear from someone who had experienced those "checkered" sleepers.

[Anonymous]

The sleeper coach I had about 30 years ago was one of those that saved space by having your feet under the bed of the next one that was slightly elevated. From the outside, the windows were not at the same level, alternating up and down.

Terrible night. With a lot of flipping, a very narrow bed was created with an unlocked joint separating one third of the bed from the rest. This flexed during the night. The bed also covered the toilet but that's the scheme in a roomette, too. Much preferred the roomette.

Art

[daveklepper]

One of the first things that Amtrak did on 1 May 1971 (with no Chicago - NY service via Buffalo and Albany, the Lake Shore came later) was to put a slumbercoach each way on the Broadway. At this point I am unsure whether the Broadway was all sleeper up to Amtrak, but I think not. I think Penn Central had already added coaches, but not a slumbercoach.

When the New York Central merged all east-west overnight trains into one train, what we called "The Steel Fleet", discontinuing all named overnight trains including the 20th Century Limited and the New England States, Wolverine, Ohio State Limited, one slumbercoach ran each way Chicago - New York via Cleveland and one each way Detroit - New York. The train throught Detroit did continue on to Chicago, but a NY - Ann Arbor passenger (did it) had to move to coach in Detroit. One or two 6 Bedroom 10 rommette sleepers did run through. Did that too, and once rode the Silver Rapids, the PRR California Zephyr sleeper, from New York to Detroit or Ann Arbor.

The Detroit slumbercoach was dropped at one point during Penn Central's operation of passenger trains, but the Chicago - NY slumbercoach or sleepercoach if you prefer did continue to Amtrak, then was shifted to the Broadway.

NP and Burlington slumbercoaches operated in one pool to maximize availabilitiy in and out of Chicago. NP slumbercoaches were never painted two-tone green but matched the Burlington stainless steel finish and were often the only silver cars in an all two-tone green NP streamliner. The Central's sleepercoaches were also stainless, but the NYC had lots of stainless coaches, diners, and lounge cars also (Budd). It's regular sleepers were two-tone grey with white stripes.

I don't remember the paint on the B&O-MP slumbercoaches, but I think they were a sort of modified blue and grey and mostly stainless scheme that was fairly attractive.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

An interesting sidebar to the Slumbercoaches involved the City of Denver. To provide competition for the Denver Zephyr, the Pullman Company took two 22-roomette sleepers from the PRR pool, painted them yellow and Harbor Mist Gray (keeping the PRR reporting marks by the doors) and assigned them to the City of Denver. The room charges may have been adjusted to better compete with Slumbercoach fares.

[siberianmo]

Hello Allen

The info provided to you by passengerfan is just a sample of what he and others provide on those threads I suggested to you earlier on your "trip report" Post.

C'mon and join us!

Tom

[passengerfan]

The Slumber coach was a modern version of the Tourist sleeping car. Budd built the Slumbercoaches and there were two basic types the standard Slumbercoach had 24 single Rooms and 8 Double Rooms for a total of 40 passengers. The CB&Q recived the first slumbercoaches in 1956 for the new Denvewr Zephyr which carried two per consist one a Chicago-Denver Car the other a Chicago - Colorado Springs car. Fare was coach fare plus $7.00 for a single per night.
The NYC leased four similar cars and named theirs Sleepercoaches and operated them between New York and Chicago The B&O and MP leased four more of the Slumbercoaches between them and operated them between Washington and San Antonio via St. Louis. Two additional 24-8 slumbercoaches were owned by the B&O and operated between Washington and Chicago in the COLUMBIAN. The NP bought four of the Slumbercoaches from Budd and ended up purchasing all of the leased Budd slumbercoaches as well. They became the largest operator of 24-8 slumbercoaches prior to Burlington Northern. The NP operated the Slumbercoaches in the North Coast Limited between Chicago and Seattle and later they were assigned to the Mainstreeter as well.
The NYC had the Budd Company rebuild 10 of their 22-Roomette Sleeping cars and they imerged from Budd as 16 single room 10 double room sleepercoaches and were assigned to the Twentieth Century Limited, New England States, Ohio State Limited, Cleveland Limited and Wolverine. Experienced personally the slumbercoach on the North Coast Limited and Mainstreeter as well as the Denver Zephyr. As long as you were not assigned a room over the trucks they were nearly as quiet as a Pullman and rode very comfortably. The only reason Amtrak retired the cars was due to their being no place to put holding tanks for the cars waste.
Any other questions about the slumbercoaches let me know.

[Anonymous]

[:)]
A 2004 post on the TRAINS Magazine site called "Looking to understand sleeping car confgurations" recently re-flowered and among the subjects touched on were the Slumbercoaches that some RR's used and offered a popular-priced alternative to the Pullman.

Here's what I've picked up and please correct me if I'm wrong.
Slumbercoach was the darling of only a few railroads--particularly the NYC--yet well-liked among the traveling public who tried them, it seems. The standard arrangement slept two in upper-and-lower berths and contained sanitary facilities, obviating the need for big men's and women's lounges at either end of the car.. I gather that the high-efficiency NYC Slumbercoach could "sleep" 40 people whereas many line's "daynighter" type coach could only manage a dozen more passengers -- 52.

I'm opening this topic because there may be enough people with exposure to the Slumbercoach to sustain it. I for one would love to hear travel experiences good [:D] and bad [:(] -- if you know someone who worked on them -- and route and company history if you know it. It's also useful to remember that Amtrak Heritage inherited some (see my post on the TRAINS magazine site mentioned above; my post is dated October 31 and there are other relevant posts before the after before they ceased.

Of course, Slumbercoach pertains only to PASSENGER trains, so I thought further discussion might work out here--particularly because they are now by definition classic and nostalgic -- and sadly nonexistent.

What do you say? [:D]