ALCO PA -1 .............

[N1TXN]

I HAVE A PRESSING ONE HERE!! I KNOW ,NEW HAVEN,NYC AND PENNSY ALL HAD ALCO PA-1,2,3,s IN THERE ROASTERS, HERE IS THE BIG QUESTON,DID PENNCENTRAL, CONRAIL,OR AMTRACK EVER AQUIER A PA UNIT IN THE MURGERS??OR WHERE THAY ALL SCRAPPED BY THAT TIME??......frankie ([e-mail])

[N1TXN]

THANKS FOR THE INFO,ON THE PA-s I DIDNT THINK THAY LASTED LONG....TOBAD THAY WHERE GOOD LOOKING ENGINS............N1TXN

[egmurphy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by N1TXN

THANKS FOR THE INFO,ON THE PA-s I DIDNT THINK THAY LASTED LONG....

Well, if we consider that Penn Central was what, 1968-1970?, then there were PA-1's still operating at that time. Maybe not on NYC or PRR or their successor railroads, but certainly in the area. The D&H bought 4 from Santa Fe and was still running them into the early 70's. See following link for shots of these locos in upstate New York in '68-'72 (about a third of the way down the page):
http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/alco.html

In '74 these same 4 PA-1's were rebuilt at MK in Boise and sold to NdeM. They operated in Mexico for a number of years after that.


Regards

Ed

[Anonymous]

The closest you can get to Amtrak with a PA would be the 4 ex-ATSF D&H units that operated on the Adirondack, which was an ATK schedule funded under 403(b) by the state of NY. Rode behind them in 1977.

[Anonymous]

nanaimo73,

Thanks for your post. You list that D&RGW had PA-1's. What was the difference between these units and the original PA's?

I ask because I am interested in modelling the D&RGW's PAs as used on the California Zephyr - so I am wondering how suitable the Proto2000 HO models are?

Thanks in advance,

[David_Telesha]

The New Haven's 27 units lasted until the mid-1960's.

After the FL-9's arrived in 1957 and the rest in 1960, the PA-1's were bumped to local passenger and freight service.

It wasn't uncommon to see two or three beat up PA's hauling manifest freights between NY and Boston in the late 1950's into the 1960's and it wasn't uncommon to see one or two hauling a second or third rate local at this time.

Up until then, the PA-1's were some of the newest road passenger power on the NH, sans the CPA24-5 of 1951, the PA-1's were used on crack trains upon their arrival in 1948 through the 1950's.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Penn Central never had a PA or PB on its roster. All of the PA's and PB's from the three predecessor roads were gone by 1965. EL's PA's (12 PA1's and 2 PA2's) lasted in freight service until 1969. No PA's were on Conrail's roster, either.
The PB1's on D&RGW which were converted to steam generator cars lasted until the Ski Train was re-equipped. At some point, they were re-trucked with Blomberg trucks.

[Anonymous]

Just to add that there were also PA units in Brasil. 3 belonging to Companhia Paulista. I belive at least 2 of the units have been scrapped. The remaining unit is on display in a museum.
Anyway, if anyone gets the possibility of ging to Mexico, try to visit the National Railways museum. Units 'DH16' and 'DH18' are there and - I cannot garantee that - are in working order.

[PBenham]

Very few PAs made it into the '70's. I think that besides the D&H quartet, The Paulista's (Brazil) lasted into the 80's and there are rumors that at least one is preserved. It also is possible that other ex-AT&SF PAs lasted that long, if only because the scrappers hadn't gotten to them yet!

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Brazil was a most interesting place when it came to Alco flatnoses. The Paulista had the three PA1's mentioned above and Central of Brazil had 12 FA1's. Surprisingly, nobody had any DL500's (World Locomotive), which was an export design.

There also weren't any EMD bulldog noses in Brazil, either.

[SSW9389]

And who knows about the Canadian National's two PA-1s? I didn't until reading Richard Steinbrenner's The American Locomotive Company A Centennial Remembrance.

[SSW9389]

There were originally 169 PA-1s, not 167. Check out the history of the last two built.

Correct count of PA and PB units as built is: 169 PA-1, 39 PB-1; 32 PA-2, 3 PB-2; and 49 PA-3, 5 PB-3. Totals are 250 cabs and 47 boosters= 297 total units. The Paulista Railroad was an original owner of 3 PA-2s.

Bought new? I don't think so in several cases. The demonstrator history follows below.

The first two units a PA-1 and PB-1 were built in June 1946, demonstrated on Lehigh Valley in black demo paint that July before being rebuilt for Santa Fe in September 1946. Revise your roster to show that GM&O #292 was originally Alco-GE #1776 a demonstrator that pulled the first American Freedom Train, 9/47-1/49. Two other Alco-GE PA-1 demonstrators were rebuilt and sold to MKT as PA-2s. The first PA-2 PB-2 were the red Alco-GE Demonstrators used to pull the More Power to America GE exhibition train. These units were sold to NYC. Steinbrenner rocks![8D]



[PA ownership, bought new-
ATSF- 28 PA-1, 16 PB-1
D&RGW- 4 PA-1, 2 PB-1
EL- 12 PA-1, 2 PA-2
GM&O- 3 PA-1
LV- 14 PA-1
MKT- 4 PA-1, 10 PA-2
MP- 8 PA-1, 10 PA-2, 18 PA-3
NYNH&H- 27 PA-1
NYC (6 cabs used on the P&LE)-
8 PA-1, 4 PB-1, 5 PA-2, 1 PB-2, 2 PA-3
NKP- 11 PA-1
PRR- 10 PA-1, 5 PB-1
SSW- 2 PA-1
SR- 6 PA-3
SP- 24 PA-1, 6 PB-1, 4 PA-2, 2 PB-2, 23 PA-3, 5 PB-3
UP- 8 PA-1, 6 PB-1
WAB- 4 PA-1

Total-
167 PA-1, 39 PB-1, 31 PA-2, 3 PB-2, 49 PA-3, 5 PB-3
247 cabs, 47 boosters, 294 total