The Champion Train Out of New York

[Anonymous]

Hello,

What a wonderful find is Trains.com. I hope someone can help me. I'm trying locate info on trains that left New York City's Penn Station traveling to South Carolina in the 40's through the 60s. The name I remember was the Champion or Silver Metor. I was a little girl then, but I'm trying to write a story and I need info on the trains that travelled from Penn Station during this time. The name that sticks most often is The Champ or Champion. Does anyone remember these trains??

[passengerfan]

The Champion was the name of the Atlantic Coast Lines premeier year round train operating from New York to washington DC on the PRR and From Washington to Richmond over the rails of the RF&P Richmond Fredericksburg and Potomac. South of Richmond the train was operated by the ACL on their double track mainline to Jacksonville Florida where the train was handed off to the FEC Florida East Coast for the trip to Miami. Originally the Champion was a seven car coach streamliner operating daily with three sets of equipment between New York City and Miami. One yrear later the trains had grown to 14 car streamliners with sections servcing both the east coast of Florida and West Coasts of Florida daily. During WW II the trains received heavyweight sleeping cars and in 1950 lightweight streamlined sleeping cars joined the East and West Coast Champions.
The SILVER METEOR was inaugurated february 2, 1939 between New York and Miami and New York and St. Petersburg weekly. This was also a seven car coach streamliner when inaugurated and and in December they were providing daily service with the delivery of two additional train sets. Additional cars were delivered in 1940 increasing the length of the SILVER METEORS. Like the Champions the Silver Meteors were operated by the PRR between Washington and New York and the RF&P operated the trains between Washington and Richmond.
The two railroads were merged in the 1960's becomiing the Seaboard Coast line. The railroad continued to operate the Champion as a west coast train and the Silver Meteor became an east coast train. Both trains carried Coaches sleeping cars lounge cars and dining cars. Today the Silver Meteor is still operated by Amtrak. Hope this information helps.

[markn]

As a side note-I beleive the ACL President's name was "Champion" hence the name of the trains

[Anonymous]

The Silver Meteor originally operated every third day ... alternating between New York and Miami and between New York and St. Petersburg. In thesummer of 1939 it was made every third day to both cities ... I think 5 cars to Miami and 2 cars to St. Petersburg. It was never weekly.

The Champion was, like the Silver Meteor, named through a contest. Champion MacDowell Davis, although a high level ACL employee, was not president in 1939.

[daveklepper]

During the winter season, the Champion was actually two trains, the West Coast Champion and the East Coast Champion. For a considerable period, the East Coast Champion was the fastest train New York to and from Miami, 24 hours each way. ACL power generally ran through from Washington to Miami, without changing off RF&P power at Richmond or FEC power at Jacksonville. On the ACL, the train skipped a number of important stations, like Fayetteville and Rocky Mount that nearly all other trains stopped at. The West Coast Champion usually did stop at those stations. Also, the East Coast Champion ran nonstop on the RF&P Richmond - Alexandria, VA, not stopping at Fredricksburg or Quantico. The East Cast Champion also had matched equipment even during the winter season. This included PRR, RF&P, and FEC coaches and possibly sleepers as well that were all stainless steel with purple letterboards. The other ACL Florida trains were not so lucky in the winter season. In particular, the Florida Special, an all-sleeper 24-1/2 hour winter only train, that did stop at Fayetteville, usually ran with mostly borrowed UP, SP, and MP equipment, but its great feature was a lounge car with bingo games and television and other amentities. Borrowed cars were also occasionally used on the West Coast Campion. The East Coast also had a blunt end obervation-lounge which all the other trains lacked. But in the summer, the two Champions were combined, with the trains divided southbound at Jacksonville and combined northbound there. In the postwar era the Silver Meteor in Seaboard Airline days served both Tampa-St. Petersbug and Miami with the division and combining done at Wildwood. For a while, with fast running over its CTC single-track line, the SAL did match the ACL with a 24-hour New York - Miami running time. On the PRR, both trains (or all three including both Champions) were NOT combined with other trains and neither handled any local Washington NY business. Normal running time for the PRR NY - Washington expresses was 3:55, with the Morning and Afternoon Congressionals exceptions at 3:35. But the Silver Meteor and the East Coast Champion were 3:45 and could arrive in NY early with early station stops. All other through trains from the South took 3:55 or more on the PRR. (Some had extensive mail and express business, like the Havana Special, renamed the Gulf Coast Speical after the Castro revolution.) At the time of the big Florida East Coast strike, about 1960, the ACL trains to Miami were taken off the FEC and run over the ACL tracks used by the West Coast trains, and then switched to the rival Seaboard tracks at Aurbondale to the Seaboard's Miami station. The Silver Meteor was the last of the Florida trains to carry an observation car, a round end. The Silver Star and the Silver Meteor were almost always all stainless steel without heavyweight or borrowed equipment, and again, the RF&P and PRR furnished a few matching coaches. Where the ACL borrowed western railroad lighweight equipment for the added winter business, the SAL kept modernized heavyweight equipment to handle the extra load, including reclining seat "American Flyers" that saw summer service on the plug locals and then ran on the Silver Comet to Birmingham and the Tidewater from Portsmouth VA in the winter, runs handled by only lighweight equipment in the summer. This included some spruced up heavyweght six-wheel truck coaches as well. But on the ACL the heavyweight equipment retained was mostly lounge and dining cars, extensively rebuilt. The total lineup of NY - Florida ACL trains were the East Coast and West Coast Champions, the Florida Special, the Palmetto, and the Havana Special later the Gulf Coast Special. There was also the Jacksonville - Washington Eveglades. The Havana Speical had a Richmond - NY sleeper and the Everglades a Jacksonville Florence SC sleeper. The Palmetto had Jacksonville - Miami and Jacksonville - Tampa sleepers. The Seaboard ran the Silver Meteor, the Silver Star, the Palmland, and the Sunland to Florida. Also the Silver Comet, NY - Birmingham (competition for the Southern's Southerner) through Atlanta, the Tidewater, Portsmouth, VA - Jacksonville (with through sleepers to both Miami and St. Petersburg in winter and to Atlanta or Birmingham year-round). The Silver Meteor skipped stations like Southern Pines and Petersburg that other trains stopped at and also ran non-stop Richmond - Alexandria on the RF&P.

[daveklepper]

Oops! Forgot! The Seaboard equivalent to the ACL's winter only Florida Special was the winter only Orange Blossom Special which may have been one of the very last all-heavyweight all-Pullman trains in the USA. It did get lightwieght sleepers finally (some the aborted C&O Chessie steamliner equipment), and was the last of the crack NY - Florida trains to get them. I remember the days right after WWII when the SAL diesels would come off at a yard north of Main Street Station in Richmond and an RF&P 4-8-4 would power the train with very fast running to Alexandria and Washington.

Also, the Seaboard always allowed coach passengers to use the Silver Meteor's round end observation, while as soon as the sleeper equipment was added to the Champion, the blunt end observation became a 1st Class Passengers only operation.

[Anonymous]

The East Coast and West Coast Champions ran yearround as separate trains until the 1960s. In the early 1960s ACL began combining them and calling the result the Consolidated Champion. The East Coast Champion at times did run 24 hours New York to Miami, but as far as I know, the Florida Special matched that time. I have an Official Guide from December 1956 (I think) with both trains carded at 24 hours.

I don't think the Silver Meteor every made the New York to Miami trip faster than 25 hours. In fact, in my Guide, the Silver Star was faster (in one direction, at least).

The Orange Blossom Special was never equipped with lightweight sleepers. It was heavyweight until the end, which I believe was the 1952-1953 season. How about the Bar Harbor Express ... was it ever streamlined? I know it outlasted the OBS.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Coach passengers got to use the "Silver Meteor's" observation since the Pullmans were ahead of the diner (reverse of usual practice). I'm not sure if any other trains were arranged this way on a regular basis.

[daveklepper]

The Silver Star when I rode it did not have a rear-end observation. It had a mid-train lounge, very unusual with glass cut into the room, like a dome, only it was a regular dimension single level car. Of course very tinted glass to prevent too much sun. If I remember correctly, it was open to all passengers. It was also used by the dining car steward as a place for diners to wait for a table, as was true of many trains.

There was a time when the Silver Meteor made the trip in 24 hours. This may have been for a very short period, and they may have had difficulty meeting the schedule with the combination and separation at Wildwood. And once I rode the observation from Jacksonville north to Hamlet, with a quick meal and off at Southern Pines. (I think at the time the Meteor stopped northbound only.) On much of the run we doing a mile in 36 seconds, 100 mph. When I remarked this to the brakeman, he replied:

The ICC authorised speed on this line is 79 miles per hour and that is what we are doing.

But we are doing a mile in 36 seconds!

He repeated the first statement.

[Anonymous]

daveklepper: You seem to be describing the Sun Lounge cars (5 double bedroom lounge cars) that were built for the Silver Meteor.

[daveklepper]

You have refreshed my memory. They were built for the Silver Meteor and served as the mid-train Pullman lounge as an extra to the observation lounge that could be used by everyone. But when I rode the Silver Star in the summer season, apparently the Seabord had decided one lounge was enough for the Meteor and these cars then served as the lounge for the Star. A friend, Joe Whiteford, had reserved one of the rooms in the car for the trip. Joe Whiteford was President of Boston's Aeolian Skinner Organ Company and also preferred train to plane travel.

[Anonymous]

Hello, In reading these posts, I remembered something which has stayed with me over the years and may be of interest to some of you. I rode the East Coast Champion in Spring of 1957 from Newark to Miami. On the return trip, we left Miami with four red and yellow Florida East Coast diesels (ABBA), changed out to three purple and silver Atlantic Coast Line diesels (ABA) in Jacksonville or Savannah. Then, we picked up two Richmond, Fredericksburg and Potomac (two A's) diesels in Richmond. Finally, in Washington the consist was hooked up to one lonely, but extremely powerful GG1, which pulled us back into Newark. Two things stick with me from this trip (I was 9 years old). One is that the FEC had a really melodious horn set which was far superior to any of the others in its musical quality. Second, I was impressed, and remain so, that a single electric locomotive could pull a train at such high speeds that required 4, 3 and 2 diesels on the rest of the trip. What fond memories.