Pennsy Branch Line

[Anonymous]

I have quite a few b&w pictures of diesel action on the Mt. Carmel branch.  I had to get out A Pennsy Diesel Power Review to try and identify them.  Here's what I have:  GP9s (a lot of them, including 8624, 8643, 8863, and the "infamous" 8628 that wrecked on The Horn right in front of me and our house on Wolverton St. in Sunbury on December 13, 1962), ALCO PAs, and F7s.  There may have been others, but I have no photos of them on the branch.  Shark Noses "nosed" around all over the Central Susquehanna Valley, but all my pix are on the N/S main.

If anybody's interested, I have pix back to 1955 of action on this branch, although steam pix are limited to the one I use on my "signature" on this forum.  Also lots of stories.

Chuck Lytle

[John Krug]

To Mike - Littleboom

In a previous message you mentioned some material you received on the Williamsport North and Eagles Mere line. Was this line a PRR branch? What was its purpose? lumber, tourist? Anything you can share would be of interest?

John

[John Krug]

I just reviewed the "Vignettes of the Pennsylvania Railroad", volume 2; a DVD by Clear Block Productions and there is footage made of the I-1's on this branch. However in the last scene the pushers are an I-1 plus a A-B-B-A of EMD F units. I guess that answers some of the questions. I also do remember hanging out at Sunbury in the late 50's and seeing what I think were two Alco RS's going up around the horn.
In answer to Dave and the streetcars. When I a little kid; many years ago when the crust of the earth was just starting to cool, I loved to go to Wilkes Barre to see the "Charley cars"

[Anonymous]

Well John I can't seem to make up my mind on which one was the right on. The E-7's were used for passenger only. I have a book called Pennsy Power II, and they depict a lot of those locomotives. I do believe it was the F units. They have been around, and probally made stronger by the time they took control of that run. Something I need to investigate a little futher.

[daveklepper]

They could have been baby-Sharks the Baldwin competition for the FA's and F-3's and F7's. The Pennsy had quite a few and generally did not mix the Balwins with other power as they often did with Alcos and EMDs. The Pennsy rarely used E units in freight service, almost never. When they did it was with intermodel truck trains and the like, not coal or ore.

I was in the area of your branch line, but what interested me was the Laural Line interuruban and the streetcars in Scranton and Willksbare.

I think I actually once may have ridden behind an H10, however, and saw plenty of them as a kid, not only on the PRR but on the LIRR as well.

[Anonymous]

Would they be the E-7's? I just was on the pennsylvania rail road museum's web site and they have a photo on the last e-7 left in the world. Looks simular to the one on the video. This is a head scratcher for me. I just want to say it's nice to meet and share stories with people who love the railroad. My grand father worked on the Pennsy Lines out of Northumberland. Needless to say I never met him, but i did see a photo of him with my father posing in front of the engine he worked on. I believe he was the fireman. He was from Shamokin, and worked the mines until he got married, then he moved to Sunbury and got a job with the PRR.

[John Krug]

You jogged my memory on those diesel powered ore trains. The train I saw had only two units and they had a relatively short train. The units were not F's. They were hood units; I think Alco. Does that make sense? In any event, they certainly were no match in excitement for the I-1's!

[Anonymous]

I would believe that EMD F units or the Alco PA and PB. I have to look it up. I know at the end of the ore train video the Lehigh Vally Railraod picked up the train from Mt. Carmel to Bethlehem and they were using F units. Hard to say for sure without looking it up. Only thing for sure that the diesels back then were way under powered to handle such loads as iron ore and coal. They needed to break the train into smaller segments or add more units. I used to hop trains as well to go to Northumberland to see my girl when i was in High school. Always went for the hopper cars. I wouldn't even dream of doing it today. I'll look it up and get back to you. [:)]

[John Krug]

I have all the Weaver films and they are great! I know the "horn" well. When my railfan buddy and I used to hang around Sunbury when we were students at Bucknell, we occasionally saw a diesel powered ore train going up that branch to Mt. Carmel. We used to hang around that tower on the north end of town and although I would not recommend it today, we would catch freight trains to Enola, Williamsport and even Altoona. This was back in the days when we were dumb and adventurous engineering students. We even were on a train that went into Harrisburg pulled by Baldwin Sharks. As a child I even remember being in Sunbury with my Dad at the station watching a southbound troop train pulled by a K-4 take off. Never forgot that occasion.
I forgot what diesel power pulled the ore trains to Mt. Carmel. Do you know?

John

[Anonymous]

Have anyone here ever watch the ore train video that Clarence Weaver filmed? Very good piece of PRR history. To the guy who told the story about the derailment and to the one who asked about the H-10's. I wished I would have seen at least one Pennsy Steam train. I was born way too late. But I am a PRR fan all the way. I used to live by what they called the Horn. Then from the horn it would go onto the Shamokin line which was supposed to run from Danville to Pottsville. Never the less it never reached both towns. All that remains of the Horn is the bed and some bridge supports on sixth st. The elementry school I attended sits on the old through way of that old railroad. All I can remember of any Pennsy trains is that of the Penn Central coal trains coming in from Shamokin. I also have been through the old roundhouse in Northumberland, not as a visitor to say the least. It kinda scared me. Knowing that big black steamers used to housed there.

[John Krug]

Back to the Pennsy branch line. The original name of that line was the SB&B which I'm pretty sure stands for Susquehanna, Bloomsburg and Berwick. In its early years they ran a passenger train each way. The service was not the best in the world. The SB&B soon took the names: Sour Bread and Bisquits or Sores, Bumps and Bruises.

[John Krug]

That North Shore line is also interesting and it's really neat that it is still in use. That of course was originally the DL&W that went from Northumberland to the Wilkes Barre area. When I was a little kid, if the windows were open, I could hear the whistle and steam noise from the passenger train going north in the morning. Also when about 6 years old, my dad had business in Kingston so he put my two sisters, Mom and I on the train and met us later in Kingston. I still remember it! My grandparents also had a farm along that track where the present PP&L nucleur (s?) power plant is north of Berwick. There was a small building along the track about the size of a phone booth that served as a flag stop location. We never flagged the train, but when we knew it was coming, we would stand in that shack and get a real rush when the train would go by at about 60MPH. I also remember that at the ACF shops in Berwick, much of the switching chores were done by a neat little DL&W 0-6-0 switcher complete with slope back tender. I remember seeing it one time when it derailed on a rough siding. It ended up tipped at an odd angle but didn't flop over. My uncle Al was a brakeman at the time and was on the front footboard. They were going at a slow speed and he jumped off to the side just at the board was torn off the locomotive by the ballast when it hit the ground. Fortunately, no one else was injured either.

John

[littleboom]

Man, you've seen some cool stuff in your day!

About the only interesting recent local story I know of is that the North Shore RR local hit a pickup truck at a crossing in Danville a couple months back. I guess the guy thought he could beat the train. What's funny is that the train only goes like 5 mph through town.

Thanks for the stories!
Mike

[John Krug]

Mike,
ACF did and still makes rolling stock. Their present plants are in southern Missouri and northern Arkansas and the company name is ARI - American Railcar Industries. I was involved in design, testing and manufacture of rolling stock for about 37 years.
Another derailment of interest in Berwick on the Pennsy in the late '40's. During some severe winter weather, the local hadn't appeared for a few days. When it did, the crossings were all frozen and the consist was a long string of loaded coal hoppers with double headed H-10's on the point. A few blocks from my house the front locomotive climbed on top of the ice and went off the rails, but since it was going slow it remained upright and only went about 50 feet on the ground. Since is was a slight downgrade, and all the slack bunched to the front, the second locomotive could not back up the loads and clear the crossings. The crossings were blocked for about a mile all night. The next morning the wreck train appeared and its task was to pull the cars back and clear the crossings. The second locomotive, now free from its loads was used to slowly pull the lead locomotive back as they build a hardwood ramp to guide it back on the rails. I about froze to death, but I had to watch the whole operation.

[littleboom]

John that IS a little strange. They were obviously in a hurry.

I actually live in Riverside(Danville) so we get to see plenty of Norfolk Southern trains on the old Pennsy line, as well as North Shore RR locals through town. We can't see the trains from our house but we can sure hear them.

Thanks for the tale! Didn't ACF used to make rolling stock?

Mike

[John Krug]

The one derailment concerned the old wooden caboose. Typical of most PRR locals, they ran the cabooses in the middle of the train. One day there was a fire to which the local fire department was responding with their open cab Mack truck. When they were about a hundred feet from the unprotected blind crossing, the train came lumbering across. The fire truck with only rear brakes, t-boned the caboose (cabin car on the Pennsy) and lifted it off the track. The train soon stopped with the caboose tipped almost 45 degrees. The crew walked out unhurt. Two firemen on the back of the truck dropped with their butts on the pavement. Except for worn pants and a few brushburns they were unhurt. The firemen in the cab of the truck dove out each side. One ended up with a broken leg and bruises and the other unhurt. Next day the big hook, which probably came from Williamsport or Northumberland brought things back to normal. The caboose had little damage. The firetruck was totaled.
I'll pass on a few other incidents later. I also went to Bucknell and was chief engineer with ACF until retirement about 8 years ago. Having been in and out of the ACF Milton facility quite often, I'm a little familiar with your area.

John

[littleboom]

Strange derailments...I gotta hear this [8)]

I love the local RR history of central PA. A friend just found and gave me an old book on the Williamport North and Eagles Mere line, good stuff! [8D]

Mike

[John Krug]

Good to hear from another Pennsy fan. There are still many evidences of the old roadbed in Berwick where I grew up. Occasionlly out through the countryside west of Berwick to the town of Lightstreet, evidences of the roadbed still exist. In particular just west of Berwick where the track crosses the Orangeville highway, the old iron railway bridge across the creek still stands. I understand that the reason that they changed quickly from the H-10's to the Baldwin switchers was that the crew got an extra day's pay a week for turning the locomotive on the turntable that was located at the east end of the ACF Berwick plant. If you're interested, I'll tell you of some strange derailments that occurred a few blocks from my home.

John

[littleboom]

I'm currently about 1 minute from that line now, working in Watsontown. As far as I know, the line only survives as far as the PPL plant in Montour. I see coal drags occasionally. I've seen what I believe to be the old right-of-way in patches here and there around Millville as well. I wish I could have seen those H-10s!

Mike

[John Krug]

I grew up along the Pennsy branch line that went from Watsontown to Berwick, Pa. I fondly remember the husky H-10's that traversed there on their daily round trip. There were even double headers to carry the large amount of military material from the American Car and Foundry to support the WWII effort. Anyone else out there remember this branch?