Revival of the Fallen Flags

[MikeSanta]

What the government should do is pass a law that the railroads can NOT merge unless they agree to keep ALL their old paint schemes in action. I understand the railroads merging for business reasons, but they could still maintain all the old paint jobs. They save the cost of repainting the engines and WE get to see the old railroads again. Anyway, I saw an unpainted Chicago and Northwestern engine last week on the Union Pacific track. I see Southern Pacific, but I HATE seeing them with yellow and red numbers.

[Anonymous]

Norfolk Southern painted GP-59 #4610 in SR green back in 1994. Is it still green?

[David_Telesha]

That's true - Metro-North doesn't have any NH painted equipment.

Those units are owned by the Connecticut Department of Transportation.

And, in fact there are 4 P32 Genesis units in New Haven colors - #228-231.

The CDOT used this scheme on its Shore Line East GP40 and F7 units too.

The FL-9's are all original NH units and there are a few still around.

Note that only the FL-9's were originally New Haven owned. CDOT adopted the NH scheme and colors to set apart their equipment from Metro-North's. The Cosmopolitan MU's on the New Haven line and CDOT coaches have a red-orange stripe/windowband. All the equipment however, is pooled so MTA units end up in CT and CT units end up in NY.

[route_rock]

UP only did it so they can extort copyrights. God knows their trains dont move or make money so they had to get another source for income! WINK WINK. Anyhow these will be hte only ones, youll never see a Deere Green Katy.
Someone commented on hard to apply schemes, KAty Red Mopac Blue? How hard were those? The images UP used are fancy flashy one time affairs. All they cared about was the nose hearld to say "See we still use these images and logos" Now pay us!.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by msernak

Whether UP is protecting trademarks or not, I think it is a great idea. It adds some variety.

It will be great if they paint more more than one unit in the special colors. If not they are just novelties, accomplishing nothing more than trademark protection.

[Anonymous]

Whether UP is protecting trademarks or not, I think it is a great idea. It adds some variety. I wish NS and CSX would do the same.

[trainboyH16-44]

http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?ids=116542,116541,116540
http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?ids=113991,113992,113989,113990,113988,113986,114123,114146
That pretty much covers the UP units.
Trainboy

[AltonFan]

The remnant of the Penn Central corporation still owns the Pennsylvania Railroad's trademarks, and last I heard, had no plans to exact royalties for their use in model railroading.

Some years ago, a scam artist claimed to have acquired the PRR trademarks, and attempted to extort royalties. His scheme fell through, and the scam artist ended up in jail for some financial irregularities connected with these activities. (I think he tried to create a PRR Visa Card.)

[tsgtbob]

Was there not some brohaha a few years ago involving a model RR manfacturer and Conrail over the PRR keystone?
It would be so neat to see a B&O SD70, or a Western Maryland speedlettered AC. The only reason that any of these would happen is to reinforce a copyright of a corperate name.
I would hate to see what the license fee for these would cost.
As an aside, I was looking at a toy f-16 in Wal-Mart. On the back, belive it or not was a copyright statement saying that Lockheed owns the rights to the name Fighting Falcon AND the term F-16. Since when did a government applied nomenclature and model desigination become the property of the manufacturer? For those who want to see this for themselves, look for the die cast planes under the "kid connection" or Maisto imprints

[underworld]

I don't know how you could convince them but around here I do sometimes see an old loco that hasn't been repainted to the "new" line. About 10 years ago I even saw a Erie and Lackawana loco.

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

underworld

[poppyl]

For the eastern roads, the real question, besides cost and corporate willingness, may be who owns the names of the fallen flags encompassed by Conrail, particularly since both CSX and NS ended up with trackage belonging to these fallen flags and Conrail and Penn Central still exist as legal entities. To hope for something to happen is probably wishful thinking.

[Anonymous]

With all of the former anthracite haulers now under CSX and Norfolk Southern control, it would be nice if those paint schemes would be revived. The CNJ's US Coast Guard inspired paint scheme would be nice to see again as would the Cornell Red with the Black stripes of the Lehigh Valley.

[poppyl]

The latest issue of Trains has an interesting article on the UP initiative. Pretty much backs up what PBenham reported. UP is doing this with brand new locos. Cost was never mentioned as a big factor in the decision.

[Anonymous]

I'd like to see NS repaint some of their high-hood SD40-2's in Southern black tuxedo.

[PBenham]

Railfan& Railroad implied that UP did these heritage units to re-inforce their copyright on images of itself,and its merger acqusitions, so they could control (ask for payment) the use of UP or acquired/merged carriers images. They ARE within their rights,though.

[AltonFan]

Most of those old paint schemes were complex affairs, difficult (and expensive) to apply and maintain.

I have a feeling UP's "Heritage Units" have less to do with the company's sense of history, and more to do with UP's current campaign to secure its claims to the trademarks of those fallen flags.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Actually, only the Connecticut DOT FL9's, P32's, and Shore Line East power are painted in the NH McGinnis Madness colors. Since the CDOT power is pooled with Metro North's own power, it can often turn up on a Hudson Line train. A similar arrangement exists with NJ Transit and Metro North for "west of Hudson" service.

[markn]

I do not mean to start anything, and am just a casual railfan but...... UP may have a sense of history, but until the "KATY" heritage loco, everything they absorbed became "armour yellow" and gray at the next repaint-the only changes I've seen in past ten-fifteen years is variation on the nose wings. I live on the east coast and only see UP/BNSF in the magazines. Ironically right next to your post is an ad for "railroads at work"-it shows a current BNSF loco in Great Northern orange and green with a modified Santa Fe cross herald on the nose. IMHO BNSF has the lead on "heritage" paint and of course would like to see all others get onboard (I mostly see NS-and only get to see their variations of light black and dark black)

[PBenham]

Have any of you seen any of the UP's "heritage" units? I rather doubt any other carrier has the same sense of its history that UP has, which sets it apart from most other carrers in North America. CP did well on those FP9s, so UP isn't totally alone,lets enjoy what we have, nothing is forever. PBenham

[Anonymous]

I know that Metro North repainted one of their Genesis locomotives to the New Haven RR colors.

It kinda makes a donkey look like it's masquerading as a race horse, but one can hardly expect a functioning railroad to bring back the locomotives that originally ran on the line.

The interesting side of the repaint job is that the locomotive was being used to pull commuter trains up the Hudson river, and as far as I know, the New Haven never ran up the Hudson River.

Erik

[poppyl]

Any ideas about how we could get the Class I's, particularly CSX and NS, to paint a few of their locos with the color schemes and road names of the various fallen flags that they have absorbed over the years? Sure would be a nice way to acknowlege their heritiage.