California Zephyr Consists

[BNSF4ever]

Thanks for the replies. I too suspect that there might have been an all-CB&Q consist but it was probably just by happenstance, not design.

Anyway, that helped make my decision in ordering Broadway Limited's new HO cars--I went for an all CB&Q order. I always thought it would be fun not only to run a CZ but the California Service that BN ran for a short time with ex-CZ equipment.

[passengerfan]

An interesting sidebar to the California Zephyr consists was the diesel power selected by each operating road. The contract stated that each railroad would be responsible for supplying the power for the CZ across their territory. At a meeting between the three roads 4,500 hp was decided to be the minimum horsepower requirement to get the train across the road in the scheduled time allotted.
For the CB&Q a user of E-Units it would have required two as the new E-8 only provided 2,250 hp and two would have supplied the required 5,000 hp. The CB&Q was operating combinations of two E-5 or E-7 units to power the Denver Zephyrs and in the winter when the rails were slippery et. they sometimes had trouble maintaing the hot schedule. So the CB&Q deviated from the E-units and ordered three sets of A-B-A F-3 units instead. This was also a result of the findings by the Great Northern on the 1947 Empire Builders that the two E-7 units overheated climbing Marias Pass.
These three A-B-A sets of F3 doiesels were the only F units the CB&Q ever purchased for passenger power and within a year E units could be found more often then not on the California Zephyr between Chicago and Denver.
The WP ordered A-B-B F3 sets of the CZ between Salt Lake City and Oakland Pier. The 4,500 hp they provided was ample for the schedule across the WP line. Grades on the WP were held to 1 and 1.5 % easily surmountable by three F3s.
The D&RGW was the railroad faced with steep grades tight curves and difficult operating condidtions particulary in the winter months. They chose 6,000 hp to maintain schedule between Denver and Salt Lake City in the form of Alco PA-PB-PA sets. Being the only alcos on an almost otherwise EMD railroad the railroad soon assigned EMD F3 diesels in A-B-B-A sets providing 6,000 hp.

[passengerfan]

Well once again I opened my big mouth without checking my facts first. i said that I was sure their was an all CB&Q consist of the CZ, well their probably was but not any of the six inaugural consists. But as maintenance took its toll it was bound to have happened. The six consists were all mixed.The first Dome coach in each consist forward of the dome was designated the Womens and Chidrens area. These cars were equipped with a swinging door on the lower level beneath the dome in the passageway. Coach passengers were permitted access two the domes in the first three domes all dome coaches with 46-leg rest seats on the cars main levels bathrooms were located beneath the domes and the standard 24 seats in the dome. The fourth dome was a 24-Seat Vista Dome 19-Seat Coffee Shop 7 Seat Lounge 17-Crew Dormitory Car. The dome in this car was accessible to Sleeping car passengers only. This was also true of the Vista dome 3-Double Bedroom 1-Drawing room Buffet 12-Seat lounge 17-Seat lounge Observation. The inaugural consist leaving Chicago on March 20, 1949 was as follows:
Power Chicago - Denver (CB&Q)
9960 A EMD F3A 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit
9960 B EMD F3B 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit
9960 C EMD F3A 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

Power Denver - Salt Lake City (D&RGW)
6001 ALCO PA-1 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit
6002 ALCO PB-1 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit
6003 ALCO PA-1 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

Power Salt Lake City - Oakland Pier (WP)
801A EMD F3A 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit
801B EMD F3B 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit
801C EMD F3B 1,500 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

802 SILVER STAG (WP) Baggage Car
4718 SILVER LARIAT (CB&Q) Vista Dome Coach
1107 SILVER MUSTANG (D&RGW) Vista Dome Coach
817 SILVER THISTLE (WP) Vista Dome Coach
251 SILVER LOUNGE (CB&Q) Vista dome Coffee Shop Lounge Crew Dorm
864 SILVER PALISADE (WP) 10-Rmt 6-DBR Sleeper
861 SILVER ARROYO (WP) 10-Rmt 6-DBR Sleeper
195 SILVER RESTAURANT (CB&Q)48-Seat Dining Car
400 SILVER MAPLE (CB&Q) 16-Section Sleeper
1133 SILVER CREEK (CB&Q) 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeper
(New York - Oakland Sleeper)
375 SILVER HORIZON (CB&Q)Vista dome Sleeper Lounge Observation

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The PRR car in the California Zephyr was a 10R-6DBR sleeper named "Silver Rapids", using the CB&Q "Silver" prefix and the PRR "Rapids" suffix for the name. See "A Twist on Tuscan Red" in a 1967 issue of TRAINS.

"Cascade" was a prefix used for 10R-5DBR sleepers on several roads beginning in the prewar (about 1938) era.

[jimrice4449]

The "standard consist" was an 11 car train. Ownership was scattered throught the train (there was even one Calfornia Zephyr car owned by the Pennsy. It was Silver Cascade, utilizing the "Cascade" series from PRR and the Q's "Silver". It was the PRR contribution to the "Coast to Coast" routing from Oakland to New York.) and had PRR where the other RRs had their initials.
The typical consist was Bagg, 3 dome coach, dome coffee shop/ dorm, flat top diner, 16 sect (later changed) sleeper, 3 10 rmt 6 br sleepers and a dome sleeper/obs/lounge. Typically in the peak summer season there would be a "foriegn line 10/6 sleeper cut in just ahead of the dome/obs. It was most frequently SP although IC cars would appear occasionally and the time I rode the train it was a C&O.
The motive power gives you a really wide choice. The Q started w/ 3 unit (ABA) sets of F-3s but soon switched to E units. The D&RGW started w/ Alco PABA sets but soon switched to four and then 5 unit F-3s. The WP started w/ F-3 ABB sets and later Fp-7 A units w/ a mix of F-3 and f-7 Bs Towards the end the WP had steam generator car that looked like a realy short baggage car painted to match the diesels cut in between the eng and train.

[passengerfan]

As a matter of fact their was as the CB&Q owned the most equipment. Initially their was six eleven car consists with the CB&Q owning 27 cars D&RGW owning 15 WP owning 24 and the PRR owning 1. In August 1952 the six consists increased by one additional car with the CB&Q owning 3 D&RGW owing 1 and WP owning 2. Also in 1952 the CB&Q received four additional CZ cars so they could upgrade the AK-SAR-BEN ZEPHYR using these four extra cars and other CB&Q owned cars with the equipment laying over in Chicago from each days CZ.
I will do my best to look up the six initial consists of the CZ sometime this weekend and get back to you. I am in the process of writing a book on the Streamliners and the dates they entered service and consists where known. i live less than seven blocks from the old WP California Zephyr in Stockton which now unfortunately sits derelict. Hope this will help as I say I will try to get back to you with the exact inaugural consists sometime this weekend. Keep in mind the consists changed almost immediatly after entering service due to the through New York cars and routine maintenance.

[BNSF4ever]

We know that the CZ was made up of cars owned by the CB&Q, DRGW, and WP. Does anyone know what the typical breakdown of cars by railroad in a standard consist was? Were there ever all-CB&Q consists?