What’s the maximum number of passenger cars that a locomotive could carry?

[Anonymous]

It's fun to split hairs, but not at the expense of middle-schoolers.

Most passenger locomotives are designed to carry 10-15 cars, although there are exceptions. The legendary GG-1 electric locomotive of the 1930s was retooled in the 1950s so that (some of) the fleet could carry 20 "heavyweight" steel coaches. (Today's Amtrak "Amfleet" day coaches are lightweight by comparison.) I challenge readers of this forum to name any contemporary, regularly scheduled American passenger train that typically hauls more than 20 cars behind it. In practice, not in theory.

Beyond 20, things get really problematic for anything other than an engine and a "booster" (many of the early designed diesel-electrics of the 1940s called for a second engine --- in effect an extra charging and motive force). Tell your students as well that most locomotives today are not purely Diesel as in diesel truck, but "Diesel-electric" - that is, the diesel engines power dynamos that drive the train with electric power.

I realize my answer is not sufficient for circus trains, excursion trains, Tweetsie Railroad, and THINGS THAT ARE IMPOSSIBLE like hauling "prewar wooden" European passenger cars with an American steam engine from the 1940s.

If you don't like the parameters I've given then fine, but for God's sake remember you're talking to a history class of middle schoolers, not students of the railroad industry per se or locomotive designers or electrical engineers. We must enlighen Mr. Hu before we entertain and educate each other. - a.s.

[Anonymous]

I think your best answer would be to check out the Ringling Bros. train.
While not exactly "passenger cars" ,its still varnish, and I believe their trains
are 2-3 miles long![:)]

[Anonymous]

Erudite, but was that really layman-friendly?

[Anonymous]

HI Luke Hu,

I hope, your students are still off school, so my contribution to this interesting question won't be too late.

For any practical purposes, platform lengths, station track time limited availibilyty & timetables & elderly passenger catcing the train abilities to reach the furthest car ,I would say twenty is the limit.

IF we ignore these considerations, I think a N&W classical Y6b steam 2-8-8-2 could get easily run some 80 lightweight European pre-war wooden passenger cars at 50mph each sitting some 70 persons. No steel wheels on iron rail locomotive can draw any number of cars because there is a problem with tiny traction. Even the the Y6b would use it's sandbox to get moving with such a load.

To run 11 heavy cars past 200 mph, a TGV still needs double the power of Y6b. Still it could not get the same train moving as Y6b did.

[Anonymous]

Is there a consensus that diesel hauling passenger cars is a rarity above the low twenties of cars carried -- and for practical reasons like brakes and heat?

I think we need to give Luke Hu something a bit more toothy.

[Anonymous]

Dear Luke Hu,
Strictly by the math, a Union Pacific 4-8-8-4 4000 Class "Big Boy" could haul 4800 tons up a 1% grade. Let's say that each passenger car carried 65 people and weighed 150,000 lbs (some average figures). This would yield 64 passenger cars or 4160 people. Keep in mind that a Big Boy is at the very largest end of the spectrum, and that though it would have no problem with brakes for 64 cars (it could handle about 250 probably), steam heat might not make it all the way to the rear cars, and slack action, the banging of cars together and apart, would be very uncomfortable at the rear with all those cars. Also, the Big Boy was primarily a freight engine (only in rare emergencies did it pull passengers), and had a top speed of 80 mph, while an FEF-2 (the UP's passenger engine on flagship trains) could EASILY do 100 mph, it would probably only be able to haul 12 cars (the official number) up a 1% grade. Now, on level ground, let's just say that amazing things can happen....

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[agentatascadero]

AMTRAK , at one time had an 18 car limit. There was no 20 car limit on SP, 98/99 regularly ran with 22 cars behind steam, 75/76, especially after combining with 94/95, ran frequently with 23-24 cars. And I once rode 95 with 28 cars , including 2 diners and 3 lounges. Currently, the Canadian seems to run up to 30 cars on a regular basis. I think the practical limits are as stated above, air brake response, and maintaining air pressure and heat in the winter. The platform length issue relates more to timekeeping due to the need for double or even triple stops for long trains, and these can cause long delays. Oh yes, 98/99=The Coast Daylight, 75/76= The Lark, 94/95= The Starlight. I know these especially well because I lived about a block from the rails in Atascadero in the 50's.

[selector]

Was this by chance an English class? If so, the answer is 'none'.

I'm not being churlish...honestly!...but the question, as posed, and if asked exactly that way by the teacher, can only be answered as I have. A locomotive carries no passenger cars, but pulls or tows them.

That aside, I have no better answer than those already provided. Many variables to consider, so no right answer.

[Gunns]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lukehu

Hello, I am Luke Hu and thank you to everyone who posted an answer (or quite a few answers) to my question.
I am not a train fan or a train collector, but I might become one in the near future. It#8217;s so wonderful to read so many professional replies and they are more than I will ever need to know regarding the topic. My middle school students are doing a train project, and they wanted to top the longest passenger train possible.
<snip>.

Our club is buliding a "resource box" for lesson planing, for next years casses here in New Mexico. Drop me a line and I'll get you what my wife has come up with so far. Some of the Ideas include haveing the students unroll a ball of twine that is the length of our Locomotive <120 feet>, and talking about rail safety.
Our page http://www.nmrhs.org/

Gunns

[Gunns]

Our engine <#2926> has a rated drawbar pull of 66,000 lb <actually 86,000+ as they were never rated after the roller bearings were put on the side rods> and was known to pull a max of 29 heavy pulman type cars. This was mostly on flat ground, Raton pass with its 3.3% grade required a helper to be cut in. This was at an avrage speed of 90 MPH <one of the Engineers that drove our engine said he "topped out" at 104 MPH once> We are working on restoring the 2926 and hope to be running in the future, but no date is yet forseen.

http://www.nmrhs.org/

Gunns

[Wdlgln005]

THe easy answer is that it depends on how much HP is required to pull a ton of train over the grade in question. It starts with the HP rating of the engine, less a factor of adhesion. THe cars present a resistance factor. Just as important as starting, is the ability to stop in a reasonable distance. The train should be under control at all times. I'm not talking about emergencies like the crazy motorist stopped on the track at a grade crossing. Pedestrians need to stay where they can be seen & not hit by something from the train.

For passenger trains, another factor is how much HP is required to heat & light the train. Power used for this purpose cannot be used to move the train. I don't know how much manual overrides may be available if the power goes out.

[espeefoamer]

I rode a train in Mexico once that had 23 cars.It had a baggage,5 coaches,lounge,diner.The rest were Pullmans,with an ex NYC lounge observation on the rear.I saw this same train on a different day with 27 cars.

[West Coast S]

The SP was infamous for combined passenger trains during unusual circumstances. For example, in 1952 when the City was trapped at Yuba Pass, SP combined a subsitute City Of SF, West Coast and mail train 75 into a monsterous 36 car consits that detoured via UP from Salt Lake to Barstow, Santa Fe from Barstow to Mojave, SP from Mojave to Oakland, utilizing mostly heavyweight equiptment, although one Cab Forward was ample power It was necessary to add 4300s to maintain steam heat cabability and reliable brake pipe pressure.

[Anonymous]

There are many factors involved such as the size of the locomotive, the grade of the track etc. In May of 1956, we ran an excursion special on the SP&S Ry from Portland, OR to Wishram, WA and return using the SP&S 700, now owned by the City of Portland. It was a Farewell to Steam trip for the area that sold out and we were able to obtain 25 passenger cars for the trip with 1500 passengers aboard. We had to turn away several hundred passengers. The track is level except for a short 1 % grade to reach the bridge over the Willamette River in Portland.
The train operated at passenger train track speed over the line and was able to maintain its regular scheduled time over the line. It ran as the second section to the Portland-Spokane local operated by the SP&S Ry at that time. We had everything from streamline cars to 1920's cars with walk-over plush seats. The 700 received a new paint job by SP&S for the trip. SP&S later donated the 700 to the city of Portland for their proposed rail passenger park, that never happened.

[txhighballer]

The other consideration for the length of a passenger train is air brake resonse. Unlike freight trains,most passenger equipment is equipped with gradulated release brake equipment,which gets a little fuzzy if you have more that 25 cars. Most railroad had limits based on that air brake consideration.

[BR60103]

I missed Dale's 36 car Canadian. I have a listing of one with 25 cars behind 3 locomotives. The 50th anniversary Canadian had 19 cars behind 2 locomotives.
VIA's LRC locomotives were designed to haul 4 cars -- longer trains were supposed to get a locomotive at each end.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

ATSF had a cap of 18 cars on the Super Chief/El Capitan which was due to length restrictions to clear grade crossings during station stops at Topeka. Some mail and express trains could run 20-30 cars, this includes the express boxes and Roadrailers on the rear of Amtrak's Pennsylvanian when it ran as a Chicago-Philadelphia daytime run.

[jimrice4449]

Of course if you're talking about frieght trains, how about those N&W 15000 ton coal trains made up of 55 ton hoppers. Figure 20 tons lt wt for the car that's a gross of 75 tons which, after reference to my handy calculator comes to200 cars! Of course, if they ran that much tonnage with empties you'd be looking at 750 cars! How'd you like to be stuck at a grade crossing watching something like that go by? As a practical matter, slack action and keeping the brakes functioning on a 5 or 6 mile long train would preclude such a monster, but it is an interesting thought.

[cnw4001]

The Canadian recently left Toronto for Vancouver with 36 cars. This is in the past month. While this is longer than normal, I understand in the summer very long consists are not unusual.

While not a true passenger train because it has flat cars and stock cars in the consist, the two Ringling Brothers Circuis trains regularly have 45 or more cars.

Amtrak's Auto Train also is in the 30's and 40's but half of them are the auto carriers.

Dale

[Anonymous]

There's another issue regarding lenght of trains and of course of passengers ones: the lenght of the blocks.
Presentlly in Europe we are around 10-12 cars. Even the TGV or ICE trains are 11 cars. In the past we had in Italy normal intercity trains of about 16/18 or over cars that occupied two blocks, being a nightmere for dispatchers even because sometime the cars don't activate the blocks because of dirty rails.

Best Andrea

[Anonymous]

Hello, I am Luke Hu and thank you to everyone who posted an answer (or quite a few answers) to my question.
I am not a train fan or a train collector, but I might become one in the near future. It’s so wonderful to read so many professional replies and they are more than I will ever need to know regarding the topic. My middle school students are doing a train project, and they wanted to top the longest passenger train possible.
After read all your replies, I realize the “longest train possible” may or may not mean much in the real world situation. But making the longest train will certainly mean a lot to those middle school students. Due to lack of funding and very limit resources, students probably won’t be making a rail track. Nevertheless, a 24-car-train by itself will still look very impressive, don’t you think?
Again, thank you to every knowledge person here and to the people in “OUR PLACE - C'mon in, sit a spell and let's talk Classic Trains” who replied to my question.

[jimrice4449]

It depends. There, doesn't that clarify things! The SP had a 20 car limit for the Daylight between LA and San Fran. and during the early 50s that was a daily occurance.
The train ran with one GS4 or GS 5 except for a short,stiff grade out of San Luis Obispo. During WWII troop trains would occasionally go over 20 cars but not by much (speed not being a factor). As psgr on privatly owned RRs was dying out in the 60s the UP would consolidate a number of the "City of" Streamliners into one massive traine with 5 or 6 E-8s on the point and these monsters would sometimes top 20 cars, but, as a practical matter, 20 cars would probably be a good bet for maximum train length.

[passengerfan]

ironrooster thanks for the latest info on the ARR I knew about the 1979 train guess I need to pay a little more attention to the latest. I will keep that info in my archives.
I kind of answered the same question over in the "Our Place" forum under Classic trains.
Someone mentioned that winters were an entirely different story regarding train lengths as railroads such as the CN and UP when they operated steam heated trains used steam generator cars as the last cars in their consists so that heat could be provided throughout the train. The CN used these cars on the Super Continental and other trains and the UP used there steam generator cars on the rear of the City of Everywhere the last few years before Amtrak. The CN steam generator cars were built new and looked like boxcars painted passenger colors (colours for those Canadaian readers) and the UP were converted from Baggage cars with the end having the steam generator equipped with a six wheel truck while the baggage end retained its 4-wheel truck.
I have a question is Amtraks timekeeping improving since they no longer operate the MHP cars?

[IRONROOSTER]

Passenger train length is governed by several factors which include:
1. How long are the platforms, tracks, etc that are available for loading and unloading passengers?
2. How fast does the train need to go and over what grades?
3. What's available in terms of passenger cars and engines?


Usually when a lot of cars were needed the railroad ran two (or more) sections. These would be separate trains but they all operated under one train number and schedule.

Here's a website for Alaska RR longest http://www.alaskarails.org/fp/passenger/longest.html
For Australia
http://www.alaskarails.org/fp/passenger/longest.html
http://www.railpage.com.au/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=672
This site lists the longest passenger train
http://www.trainweb.org/metrovalleyline/ but you'll notice that only half the cars carry passengers the other half carry autos.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

This is my best recollection of one trip I took.

In June 1998, an excursion was supposed to be pulled by MILW 261 between Chicago and Galesburg. It was replaced by BN 6153 an SD9 rated at 1750 HP.

As I recall, there was about 16-18 passenger cars. It was very slow on accelerating but would get up to track speed eventually. The return trip was pulled by MLW 261 and seemed to reach track speed much faster.

Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone here.

I am a middle school teacher and students asked me this question that I could not answer.

They wanted to know what’s the maximum number of passenger cars that a locomotive could carry?

I have been searching everywhere for an answer, include Guinness World Records, but did not find anything.

I guess a train can have as many passenger cars as one desires, it will just run very slowly. But I need to know in the real world situation, how many psaaenger cars can a train have? I hope someone here is knowledge enough to answer my question.

Yours truly,
Luke Hu