Jacksonville-Miami through train route after FEC strike.....

[ZephyrOverland]

When the FEC went on strike in 1963, how were ACL Miami-bound passenger trains rerouted south of Jacksonville? Was the detour route pretty stable, or was it modified over time up to the beginning of Amtrak?

[passengerfan]

The ACL switched to the SAL after the FEC stopped passenger service between Jacksonville and Miami.

[ZephyrOverland]

QUOTE: Originally posted by passengerfan

The ACL switched to the SAL after the FEC stopped passenger service between Jacksonville and Miami.

Was it an all SAL routing? I've read in the past that it was a ACL/SAL route - not sure where the trains would enter SAL territory. Also, in ACL timetables published during that period, the Jacksonville-Miami portion would only be shown in a condensed-type schedule.

[passengerfan]

Zephyroverland You are correct the ACL trains operated from Jacksonville to Auburndale where they crossed over the SAL Miami -Wildwood line. They then followed the SAL route to Miami from that point.

[silvertomiami]

ACL trains bound for Miami remained on ACL rails out of Jacksonville, utilizing the ACL route to Tampa (via Orlando) as far as Auburndale (between Orlando and Lakeland). The SAL route to Miami crossed the ACL Tampa route at Auburndale. Therefore, at Auburndale, the ACL trains would leave the Tampa route and enter SAL rails for the rest of the trip south to Miami, remaining on SAL rails the rest of the way. Auburndale on the SAL route was between Wildwood and Winter Haven. This might sound a little confusing without checking a railroad map, but keep in mind that leaving Jacksonville, the SAL route to Miami was actually to the WEST of the ACL route to Tampa. The two routes crossed each other at Auburndale on the way to their respective endpoints.

This routing continues to this day for Amtrak trains that travel from Jacksonville-Miami via Orlando. Amtrak has only recently discontinued direct train service between Jacksonville and Miami that utilized the former SAL route via Ocala and Wildwood. Although passenger service on the FEC south of Jacksonville has been long-gone, there has been some preliminary planning investigation work done on restoring Amtrak service on the FEC between Jacksonville and West Palm Beach, with the proposed construction of a connection in West Palm between the FEC and the CSX (Amtrak) route. However, considering Amtrak's shaky future, it is doubtful if this idea still has any momentum.

Hope this is helpful.

[ZephyrOverland]

Thank you passengerfan and silvertomiami for clueing me in on the Jacksonville-Miami post-FEC strike route. I have heard those reports concerning the Amtrak proposal to utilize the FEC south of Jacksonville, but at this point Amtrak has more critical issues to deal with. At this point all we can do is enjoy the few passenger era pieces that are left on the FEC and keep an eye out for the ghost of the Havana Special.

[VerMontanan]

I have always wondered if ACL operating crews worked their trains when operating on SAL, and to what extent extra personnel had to be employed on SAL to handle the ACL trains.

From a 1965 Official Guide at the end of the Florida East Coast section, there is a half-page notice from ACL stating, "During the work stoppage on the Florida East Coast, Atlantic Coast Line Railroad has made arrangements to handle the East Coast Champion, Consolidated Champions, City of Miami, and South Wind between Jacksonville and Miami over an alternate route."

The "Consolidated Champions" refers to, that in the off seasons, the ACL Champion passenger train was one train from New York to Jacksonville, where it split into a Tampa and Miami section; in busier seasons, the trains ran separately all the way from New York.

As near as I can see, ACL only ran one train over SAL on the detour route, and it must have been huge. Not only was the Champion (or East Coast Champion, depending on the season) ACL's only train from New York, Washington, and Richmond to Miami, which is generally considered to be the greatest single tourist destination in Florida, but the train also handled the cars for the City of Miami and South Wind (these trains operated on alternate days). Anyone know how long this train was? I would think that since it was carrying all ACL patrons to/from Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and West Palm Beach, it would probably be 20-30 cars, but I don't know for sure.

From a 1962 Official Guide, prior to the strike, ACL trains handled by FEC between Jacksonville and Miami were the East Coast Champion from New York and City of Miami/South Wind from Chicago. Also listed was the Havanna Special, but it (by this time) carried no through cars between ACL and FEC. Meanwhile, (in 1962), the Seaboard was still fielding three trains daily (Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Palmland) between New York and Miami (via PRR-RF&P), which were still running just prior to the ACL-SAL merger.

It is for this reason that, of the two railroads, I've always favored the Seaboard. That ACL, even before the FEC strike, was basically offering only one New York-Miami train while SAL operated multiple trains means that not only was ACL probably overrated, but the SAL was underrated, or at least trying harder. That ACL had better route to Tampa (through Orlando) is not disputed, but the area between West Palm Beach and Miami is the primary Florida destination, and SAL served it best, and didn't need another carrier to get its trains there. And, I've always been fascinated that ACL, in its notice about the route for its Miami train, simply states "via an alternate route" rather than to admit they had to use the track of their prime competitor. While this might understandable on some level, explaining that the trains were using the Seaboard would provide information, for example, on which station the trains would be using in cities served both by the FEC and SAL. This reminds me of the Northern Pacific, which would never admit to using the station of its primary competitor, Great Northern, in Minneapolis, the single largest city on the NP. While CB&Q, CGW, and C&NW also used the Great Northern Station in Minneapolis at 2 Hennepin Avenue, and indicated it as such in their timetables, Northern Pacific stated that their trains arrived and departed from "Hennepin Avenue Station" even though there was not one by that name!

[ZephyrOverland]

Agreed, the combined East Coast Champion and the City of Miami/South Wind must have made an impressive sight. But I wouldnt be surprised if those trains ran separately if traffic warranted it.

Also, don't forget the winter season Florida Special that ran on its own schedule separately from the East Coast Champion.