History of the F & E units...

[Anonymous]

I'm a big fan of F & E unit locos, but am unable to find much history on them. One of the things I was wanting to know was what year the E8/9 came out and how long they ran. I'd also be very interested in any history I can get on the Santa Fe Super Chief and its pulling units...

Trainluver1

[passengerfan]

Santa Fe Super Chief of 1938 was pulled by an A-B set of EA-EB units from EMC the first of the early E-units operated by B&O and AT&SF only. They developed 1,800 hp and rode on A-1-A trucks number 1A and 1B later changed to 1L and 1A. The cars were all from Budd and were as follows in train order.
3430 Baggage Car
ISLETA 8-Section 1-Drawing Room 2-Compartment Sleeping Car
TAOS 6-Double Bedroom 2-Compartments 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car
1370 ACOMA 12-Crew Dormitory Barber Shop Buffet 28-Seat Lounge Car
1474 COCHITI 36-Seat Dining Car
ORAIBI 6-Double Bedroom 2-Compartment 2-Drawing Room Sleeping Car
LAGUNA 8-Section 1-Drawing Room 2-Compartment Sleeping Car
MAVAJO 2-Drawing Room 1-Double Bedroom 3-Compartment 13-Seat Lounge Observation
Following WW-II the Super Chief was assigned A-B-B-A sets of EMD F-3 or F-7 diesels later folloed by the FP-45 diesels for the last several years before Amtrak. The Super Chief became a daily train in 1947 with cars from Pullman Standard , American Car & Foundry and Budd . Six sets of equipment were necessary for daily operation.
The consists had three REGAL series sleepers with 4-Compartments 2-Drawing Rooms and three BLUE series sleepers with 10-Roomettes 2- Compartments 3-Double Bedrooms One Vista Series 4-Drawing Room 1-Double Bedroom 17-seat Lounge Observation . One 60'RPO in the 82-88 series, one Dormitory Club Lounge car in the 1390-1395 series and a 36 seat dining car from the 1475-1484 series.
In 1950 the Super Chief was reequipped with new 36 seat dining cars 600-606 Pleasure Domes 500-505 Palm series 10-6 Sleeping Cars PINE series 10-6 sleeping cars new REGAL series 4-2-4 series sleeping cars They retained the RPO cars and VISTA series sleeper lounge Observations.
While the early E-units were assigned to power the SUPER CHIEF steam helpers were required over Cajon and Raton Passes. The F-units did not need helpers unless for some reason the Super Chief might be running late than additional diesel helpers were assigned to get the train over the passes faster. As for the question on E-Units will have to look it up.

[M636C]

I think some confusion has crept into Passengerfan's description of ATSF units. Units 1A and 1B (September 1935) were built as double ended B-B box cab units both with cabs at each end. They were later rebuilt as 1B-1B cab units numbered 1 and 10, and 10 later became a B unit. These were the first units to haul the lightweight Super Chief.

The first Red and Silver units were E1A and E1B units 2 and 2A, (June 1937) which replaced 1A and 1B on the Super Chief. AT&SF had several other E1A and E1B units. All the EA and EB units (from May 1937) were built for B&O, and they were very similar to the E1A and E1B units.

E8s were introduced in August 1949 and had 567B engines. The E9 used the greatly improved 567C engine, and were built from May 1954 until December 1963. They were rated at 2400 HP (1200 HP from each engine) compared to 2250 HP (total) for the E8. The power increase was due to improved electrical equipment, rather than the engines themselves.

Peter

[passengerfan]

Thanks M636 you are absolutely right but as you can see it was pretty early when i was doing that response. Anyway that is my excuse and I'm sticking with it. THX.

[Anonymous]

Jerry Pinkepank's orginal "Diesel Spotter's Guide" (long out of print) has nice b/w pictures of the B&O unit (before it went to the Alton) and one with the Alton slant nose redo which got removed when it was used as a switcher and renumbered 1200.
It also has pictures of the ATSF unit before and after it's modifications.
The newer guide: "Diesel Locomotives: The First 50 Years" by Louis A Marre is printed on better paper and has different pictures of the B&O/Alton unit and the ATSF units.
Me? I like the UP's first streamliners, the M10000 series, especially the M10003-6 that powered the City of Denver and other 'City' trains. Lionel put out a City of Denver Streamliner and also fielded the original M10000. But Santa only brought a NYC Commodore Vanderbuilt (sp?) style engine to my house.
Marre's book lists how many of each model of the E's and F's were built and the years they were built. It's a Kalmach book, price 29.95, but I think I paid less getting it from Ron's Books with free shipping!

[DSchmitt]

E7 built 2/45 - 4/49
E8 built 8/49 - 12/53
E9 built 5/54 - 12/63

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the information guys. I mean that. You don't know how much I appreciate it.

Trainluver1

[Anonymous]

You and I think alike. I love the E and F units. I grow up in the 1950s and the bulldog face of the units turns me on

[Anonymous]

Eunits are awesome. I just barely remember them in revenue service so until a few short years ago, I had'nt seen one in action until a chance arose to ride behind one. That progressed to a cab ride and now I am an engineer on 2 different Eunits.
Our E6 has the remnants of an electric/air brake system that allowed for quicker running and shorter stopping distances that was introduced about 1939. I have'nt seen many references about this system in the railfan media so was wondering if anyone had any recollections to share? It uses a #22 brake valve and the system is called HSC.

[Wdlgln005]

Nashville and the Tennesse Central Railway Museum is becoming a home to E and F units. A set of E's regularly run the museum's excursion trains to Lebanon or Watertown & back. They also bought 3 BN/Metra E's. 2Funits have been rebuilt. Y'all invited to come ride our trains!

Next October, the Music City Star commuter line should begin operation. The RTA bought several C&NW/Metra coaches, and will rebuild them. They will be pulled by ex-Amtrak F40's. Anybody looking for a good time should visit!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SILVERCHAMPION

You and I think alike. I love the E and F units. I grow up in the 1950s and the bulldog face of the units turns me on

Ain't it the truth... When I think of trains in general, those are the first that come to mind.

Trainluver1

[espeefoamer]

I also grew up watching E and F units.That's why I like them so much today.The closest F units to me is the two unit set at the Fillmore and Western.[:)]

[eolafan]

If memory serves me correctly the last bulldog unit ever produced by EMD was an FL9 for New Haven in 1964 and is slated for preservation somewhere.

[SSW9389]

Um, last FL9 was in 11/60. Last bulldog nosed unit was Union Pacific E9A #914 in 1/64. Diesel data from A J Kristopans. [8D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

If memory serves me correctly the last bulldog unit ever produced by EMD was an FL9 for New Haven in 1964 and is slated for preservation somewhere.

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SSW9389

Um, last FL9 was in 11/60. Last bulldog nosed unit was Union Pacific E9A #914 in 1/64. Diesel data from A J Kristopans. [8D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

If memory serves me correctly the last bulldog unit ever produced by EMD was an FL9 for New Haven in 1964 and is slated for preservation somewhere.

[:)] Thanks for the date correction...and perhaps I was thiniing that the FL9 was the last of the F series built. Thanks for the clarificaion.

[Anonymous]

When I was 18, way back in 1976, I was a regular in the cabs of C&NW commuter trains, all powered by F-7's and E units. It was that year the engineer allowed me to operate the little train of 3 bi levels from des plaines to palatine and from crystal lake to harvard.(illinois) To this day, it remains one of the highlights of my life. (it was F-7 #407)

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gentlegiant

When I was 18, way back in 1976, I was a regular in the cabs of C&NW commuter trains, all powered by F-7's and E units. It was that year the engineer allowed me to operate the little train of 3 bi levels from des plaines to palatine and from crystal lake to harvard.(illinois) To this day, it remains one of the highlights of my life. (it was F-7 #407)

[:O] NOW THAT IS REALLY COOL, SOME OF US REALLY KNOW HOW TO BE AT THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME...THE CLOSEST TO THAT I HAVE GOTTEN IS A TOUR OF A U.P. DASH 9 CAB IN SAN ANTONIO A FEW YEARS BACK, BUT NOT WHILE IT WAS IN MOTION, ONLY SITTING AT A RED SIGNAL WAITING TO GET INTO THE YARD. WAY TO GO!

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I'm going to stretch things a bit and claim that the last bulldog nose built new was Commonwealth Railways CL17, an AT26C built in June 1972. It has been rebuilt and is still in service as Australian Railway Group CLP10, painted in Genesee & Wyoming black and orange.
It may not have been built in North America but it IS a bulldog nose from an EMD licensee.