SANTA FE 2-10-4 HEAVY SANTA FE QUESTION

[SPer]

Did any Santa Fe 2-10-4 Heavy Santa Fe types ran to California such as Los Angeles.

[daveklepper]

Pretty certain they did, including Tehachapi (Sp?).

[Backshop]

2-10-4 are Texas

2-10-2 are Santa Fes

Which do you mean?

[SPer]

Not on the Santa Fe the 4-8-4s are called Heavy Mountain, 4-6-4s are called Heavy Pacific,2-10-4s are called Heavy Santa Fe, and 2-8-4s are called Heavy Mikado according to the blueprints. Santa Fe never called any of their steam locomtives Northern,Hudson,Berkshire and Texas

[Overmod]

It was my understanding that only the as-built 3751 class, possibly only the original locomotive, was a 'heavy Mountain' or 'Mountain four-wheel trailer' on blueprints.  The ATSF historical society itself has references to the 3776 class being called 'heavy Mountains', but a quick perusal of actual diagrams has them only as what I remember, "3776 class"

https://img.kansasmemory.org/00308511.jpg

Perhaps the actual blueprints for the 'big three' have the 'heavy xxx' notation on them somewhere -- I suspect the New Mexicans who rebuilt 2926 could resolve that for the 2900 class in very short order!

Likewise the only 'heavy Santa Fe' would have been the 3829 of 1919 -- note that it ran as converted into the Fifties, but no other 2-10-2s were so converted, either in the ensuing decade or after.

The 5000 was purpose-built from Baldwin in 1930, and the 5001/5011 classes were nearly as far from any version of a 'classical' 2-10-2 as you could get.  I don't know enough about Madam Queen to know if there are notations on her builder's blueprints like those for 3751, but the drawings I've seen for the 74"-drivered 2-10-4s go by class number, not a silly name.

I simply cannot imagine anyone calling a 3460 class a 'Pacific' anything.

I would agree, though, that no one at ATSF called the 'big three' by any name like Northern, Texas, or Hudson/Baltic.

[txhighballer]

daveklepper

Pretty certain they did, including Tehachapi (Sp?).

2-10-4's did not operate over Tehachapi. SP thought they were too heavy.

 

[Overmod]

txhighballer

Dave Klepper

Pretty certain they did, including Tehachapi (Sp?).

2-10-4's did not operate over Tehachapi. SP thought they were too heavy.

That's not really the primary reason.  Note this (from 'another forum'):

Use of Santa Fe 3776 Class and 2900 Class 4-8-4's was prohibited by the Southern Pacific on the joint trackage between Mojave and Kern Jct., California.  Stan Kistler verified it, and has seen the correspondence file of letters sent between Southern Pacific and Santa Fe on this subject.  The main reason was the SP curves and the ATSF wheelbase.

It does not require rocket science to observe that the rigid wheelbase of the 5001 and 5011 classes is still longer, as I suspect is the overall engine wheelbase.

[rcdrye]

The driver wheelbase of the AT&SF 2900 and 3776 class was very close to that of the SP GS-class 4-8-4 but the overall engine wheelbase was about 6 feet longer.  SP's own SP class 4-10-2s and F Class 2-10-2s had longer driver wheelbases than the GS classes but had blind center drivers and lateral motion devices on the front drivers.  The AC class articulateds and MT class Mountains had shorter rigid wheelbases than the GS classes.

[timz]

Overmod

"Use of Santa Fe 3776 Class and 2900 Class 4-8-4's was prohibited by the Southern Pacific on the joint trackage between Mojave and Kern Jct."

Wonder if the 3765 class was allowed. Don't recall if I've seen a picture of one on Tehachapi. (3751 class was allowed, of course.)

[rcdrye]

3765 class had the same overall wheelbase (50 ft) as the 2900 and 3776 classes.  3751 class (and rebuilds) were comparable to an SP GS class (44 ft).

[samfp1943]

 Admitedly, although "Mod-man' did reach back, a nmber of years when he mentioned how Santa Fe had done some conersions lof the "Heavy" Santa Fe types early on. 

   I had found, some years back, a set of photos of a 'really-heavy' 2-10-10-2 (1911-Topeka,Ks Shops)(#3000-3009)..   It was unfortunately, not too successful a type, and was gone by 1918. 

The 10 were cut down and made into a class of 'Santa Fe's of 2-10-2's  after 1918

 

See linked website for photos of #3009 on first trip in Winfield, Ks @

https://ausbcomp.com/~bbott/WINRR/wrsfd8.htm

[ sp'43- edited for spelling ]

[Overmod]

samfp1943

I had found, some years back, a set of photos of a 'really-heavy' 2-10-10-2

How about even better?  Here is a 3000, in steam!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo1IsTqE5BQ

[samfp1943]

[quote user="Overmod"]

 samfp1943

I had found, some years back, a set of photos of a 'really-heavy' 2-10-10-2

 How about even better?  Here is a 3000, in steam!

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo1IsTqE5BQ

 

[/quote]

PERFECT !! 

 The 1915 Movie: Not only shows #3001 in steam ! 

  But with the original 'Whale-back', style-tender [oil, not coal ] ; and an insight into a period of early, 20th Century, eqiupment, and practices (roof walkng). Interesting !  Thanks     

[SSW9389]

txhighballer

 daveklepper

Pretty certain they did, including Tehachapi (Sp?).

2-10-4's did not operate over Tehachapi. SP thought they were too heavy.

 

A Santa Fe 2-10-4 was run over the Tehachapi grade in early 1940 during tests run at the same time that EMC 103 was testing. This is documented in books by Stagner and Signor.