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Pittsburgh Railways

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, August 29, 2021 1:45 PM

PAT continued the pay on entry inbound/pay on exit outbound well into the 1980s.  It may still be in effect on buses.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 29, 2021 1:13 PM

During rush-hours, some trips of the Mt. Lebanon line, via the tunnel to South Hills Junction and then Liberty Avenue and Beechwood, was extended over the Mt. Lebanon - Castle Shannon Shuttle route to Castle Shannon.  In June 1949, although nearly all service on the Mt. Lebanon route was by PCCs, some rush-hour trips were still overed by single-end Peter Witts, as here downtown.

Fare collection inbound on Pittsburgh Railways was the usual one-man-car way, with boaring at the front door and cash or pass-display used fhere.  Exit downtown via both doors.  But trips from downtown, had boarding via both doors and exit only via the front dooe with cash or pass-display on exiting.

And back to Washington, PA, and another spot on the East & West local line

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, August 19, 2021 6:44 AM

Effective - maybe not.  Standard practice - sure.  They were a common feature on the Overbrook line.  Doubtful if they were ever narrow gauge rails but even if they were they were set that way deliberately.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, August 18, 2021 10:10 PM

I saw the bridge in the distance, but the rail ghost looked to far from the gauge rail to be an effictive gard rail.

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Posted by rcdrye on Wednesday, August 18, 2021 6:48 AM

The history of the Pittsburg & Castle Shannon is very tangled and and actually involves two gauges as the line was built to 3'4" gauge but later converted to 3' before Pittsburgh Rwys dual-gauged it with a 5'2" rail.  What's in the picture is a missing "bridge guard" rail which was used on approaches to bridges (note the one in the background).  This wasn't a running rail and was set to no particular gauge.

Pittsburgh didn't get the final "h" officially until 1911, though it was in use on and off since the late 1700s.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, August 18, 2021 5:05 AM

3-ft. gauge, not standard.  Coal=hauling steam raiload, until 1914.

 

You may wish to review an earlier post wher I posted information from transit expert Russ Jackson.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, August 17, 2021 9:57 PM

In the photo above on the right side track, there seems to be an outline of an inside rail.  I understand the trolley tracks were wide guage.  Could there be a trace of a former standard guage rail.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 17, 2021 2:45 AM

Ed Lybarger confirms this and notes that 1711 in the Charleroi photo with John Stern's back ti the camera:

1711 is northbound entering 7th Street Siding on Monongahela

and that two photos are indeed at the west end of the East and West Washington linr.

Here is 4908, a local car, not an interurban, route 17 for (Castle) Shannon only, after crossing the bridge over PA Highway 51 at Oak.  Ed informs me that the area has been deveoped for many years, and only the high elevation of the RuW gives a false rural impression:

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, August 15, 2021 2:42 PM

Most pre-PCC PRyCo cars had poles that were longer than normal.  In addition to having some high wire in downtown Pittsburgh and elsewhere PRyCo liked cars with long platforms (the overhanging part) and also liked to center trolley bases over the truck centers.  From an overhead wire maintenance standpoint the tradeoff was a little more wear on frogs and tight curves in exchange for very reliable pole tracking.  Poles flexing are common in old Pittsurgh photos.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 15, 2021 5:20 AM

When I  first posted this photo:

I thought it was at the opposite end of the Washington, PA,  East & West Line from this photo:

 

which Ed Lybarger identified at the west end of the line at Caldwell Avenue.  I now think it might be at the same location, just looking in the opposite direction at the east end of the car after the operator "changed ends."   Any commenta?

I believe older steel PR interurban cars had longer trolley poles because of spots of remaining high wire from the days when sercice was provided by heavy, high, large wood inzerurban cars.  By the time PCCs for interurban service went on-line, 1946, wire hight was more uniform.   Any comments?

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 15, 2021 4:04 AM

Still another view at South Hills Junction:

And another at Washington Junction:

And one more in Charleroi, with John Stern's back to my camera while he is takinig a reflex camera photo:

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 10, 2021 2:56 AM

Bob Dietrich's website says Brill 1917.   I think I have an explanation fr the extra-long trolley-pole.   First, anyne else have ideas?

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 9, 2021 3:02 PM

I made a n error: The car I labeled as 3603, wod interutban, is 3703, steel.

I had forgotten Pittsburgh Railways had steel RR-roof cars:

Here is a side view:

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 9, 2021 10:05 AM

Another June 1949 Washington Junction picture:

And Richard Allman provided a view looking south some 62 years later:

  

And Ron Yee of the existing new station, obviously quite different.  I assume this is north of the actual junction:

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 9, 2021 1:29 AM

Thanks.  A very infrmative comment.  Infrmation on 3603 is from Bob Dietrich's website (and his model railroad is most intereting):  

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Posted by rcdrye on Sunday, August 8, 2021 2:23 PM

The folks on the line car are working on a new pull-off.  At some point they will put a clamp and hanger over the other track.  You can tell because the pull-off wire ends at the line car, and just crosses the other track without a hanger. You can't see the half-yoke hanger because the lineman is in front.  The other PRyCo photos show the hanger types.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, August 8, 2021 9:18 AM

Somewhere, the PCC we were riding paased a line-car with wiremen doing sometning, like checking a slice or remving slack.

  

Back to Suoth Hills Junction, steel RR-roof interurban 3703.

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Posted by daveklepper on Saturday, August 7, 2021 1:55 PM

 

Edward H. Lybarger
 
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif
 

 

It is M555 on the inbound track at County Line siding.

 

 

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 6, 2021 9:21 AM

Is M555 the correct number for this crane work-moter?  There was a big white hole in the number as originally scanned, and I my best to piece together what remained, but I can be corrected on this matter.  And location?

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, August 6, 2021 4:04 AM

Enhancements of a  photo posted esrlier:

From

Russ Jackson.
Aug 5, 2021, 10:27 PM (13 hours ago)
 
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif
 to me
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif
Wash. Jct was something created when the Charleroi line was built.
 
 
The Pittsburgh Southern narrow gauge steam line came up from the river to Mt. Lebanon.  It's said that at the top of the grade there was a tunnel.  Leaving that the line ran down to the Saw Mill run valley at Castle Shannon and headed rightward through what later became Washington Junction and headed out on what we came to know as the Drake line.  The steam line did not span the valley at Drake, that was done by the later (much) interurban line.  It stayed on the high ground and swung left through several communities to get to Finleyville, later served by the Charleroi line.  (South of Wash Jct. the interurban tackled a steep grade to go direct through Bethel Park, as it still does.)  The 38A PRCO line from Mt.Lebanon to Castle Shannon used the steam  line right of way.  From Finleyville the line went to Washington more indirectly than the interurban line.
 
At Washington there was connection with the Waynesburgh & Washington narrow gauge line, later taken over by PRR and standard gauged, but never much used. 
 

 

The area south of Pittsburgh was full of narrow gauge lines.  As the 'Big Boys' worked their way into the area, some was standard gauged and a lot closed.  The Pittsburgh and Castle Shannon was one of the few to survive until trolley days. 

 

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, August 5, 2021 11:09 AM

The 3800s bought for interurban service had relatively light frames around the windows.  They tended to "rack" like an open car.  The 1600s were assigned in the late 1940s.

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, August 5, 2021 9:59 AM

Geoff, basically I want others to xnribute to this thread, not just I, and I did want to make the point that you have  opportunities also to record history yourselve.

Anyway, 1715'photo at Washington Jc. had a few problems, that I thought I had corrected, so here it is inbound from Roscoe and Charleroi again:

 And 1702 inbound from Washington at the Junction, operator neglected to adjust the rollsign.   After taking this piscture, I had to hustle to board the Washington car on the right:

And RC is right.  There were 1600s equipped for interurban service.  1617 was one:

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Posted by GeoffS on Thursday, August 5, 2021 9:29 AM

David, you can google it. Washington junction station, Bethel Park, PA.

G

 After posting this I felt a little foolish. Of course David knows you can google this. Like College and Adams in Canonsburg. Some of the buildings are gone, no old Chevy truck, and no trolley either. Ah for a time machine!

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, August 4, 2021 9:04 PM

Washington Junction.  The line to Charleroi and Roscoe was considered the main, with that to Washington a brasnch, even though it had the greater number of riders.  This junction, same name, still exists today as part of the current light rail system.  Can another reader post an up-to-date picture?

 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 9:27 PM

Taking pictures of streetcars in Washington, PA, cannot be done tofay.  But today's railfan who can travel in the USA has the opportunity to photograph, even make videos, of the new Washington, DC streetcarm the Tacoma, Washington, stereetcar, and the Seattle, Washington, Light Rail.  I'm 89+, and it seems inlikely that I will have those opportunities, 8000+ miles away.  but most of you have that opportunity.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 9:22 PM

Cannonsburg was a rush-hour short-turn seatination on the Washington, PA, line/

Edward H. Lybarger
4:18 PM (5 hours ago)
 
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif
to me, BobDietrich, Richard, Ryan
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif

 

3801 is southbound at County Line siding.

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 10:13 AM
Edward H. Lybarger
4:13 PM (2 hours ago)
 
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif
 
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif
Southbound car on Adams Avenue at College Street, Canonsburg
 

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, August 3, 2021 4:59 AM

View out the rear window of an interurban PCC in Wshington, PA, bound for Pittsburgh


Edward H. Lybarger

Mon, Aug 2, 7:04 PM (17 hours ago)
 
 
to meRichardBobDietrich
This view looks east along W. Chestnut Street, Washington, at the Hart Avenue siding.
 
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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, August 2, 2021 9:34 AM

Downtown Washington, PA, information from Ed:

4380 is northbound on North Main Street, Washington, where it will turn left onto Chestnut. 

 

Northbound on the Charleroi (Roscoe) line at Black Diamond Station:

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