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Railway age gazette. v.54 1913 Jan-Jun. - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
Santa Barbara is on the SP. Best routing guess Frisco to Kansas City, then Rock Island/SP via Tucumcari, El Paso and Los Angeles.
That's a wonderful story, William. Thank you.
Concerning the little girl chatting up passengers: My oldest sister, born in 1916, was taken with her parents to San Francisco to visit friends in 1921. They probably took the Santa Fe, although I am not certain. I know they had two Pullman berths and went by way of Santa Barbara because of a family story. Dad was a long-time Frisco Railway office supervisor in Springfield, Missouri. My sister said she was talking to other passengers and one of them was a prisoner being transported. He gave her a handkerchief that he had made, and she still had it years later. This, or something similar, might add some color to your story.
timzSupposedly, passengers tended to call porters "George". Why would the porter make a point of telling them to call him that? Why would he object to his own name?
The current 'understanding' is that the practice comes from addressing slaves by their master's name -- the idea being that "George Pullman" was the massa-in-charge. The Society for the Prevention of Calling Sleeping-Car Porters 'George' actually went so far at one point as to tot up just how many porters were actually named George -- you can find that datum if you look up the Society's history. It makes the case better than I probably could.
The Society also arranged, by about 1926, to have the Pullman Company put little racks at the ends of the cars, with the porters' actual names in them. But that is several years past the date of the OP's story.
Supposedly, passengers tended to call porters "George". Why would the porter make a point of telling them to call him that? Why would he object to his own name?
I had heard the stories of all porters being called George, a custom that came from slave days. I had already decided that Anna, the mother, when the porter introduced himself as George as the family boarded, that she'd tell him flatly she would never call him that. The children would ask for an explanation, why Anna would not say his name. Later Anna will ask for his real name and she and the children would go by that. Meanwhile Elizabeth, the youngest and only 8, had a habit of wandering off and chatting up the other passengers, learning their names and such. She'd take a liking to their porter, and so on. The reaction of the other passengers seeing her fraternizing with a black man would tell the rest of the story.
People who knew Anna said she would never tolerate anyone denegrating another person and demanded that her children both show and expect respect. She was very stern in certain areas.
There are several themes I want to develop in this chapter, and this is one of them.
Mike
m610I assume all Pullmans had porters, even the tourist Pullmans.
This would have been the heyday of the Society for the Prevention of Calling Sleeping Car Porters "George". By 1926 that organization had succeeded in getting the Pullman Company to provide signs with the porters' right names in at least some of the cars. It will be interesting to see how your travelers 'treat the help' in this era...
Again, thanks all for your help not only with the route but other details that will help me depict what it was like to travel by train back then. Reading the policies of the UP was also helpful, such as admonishments about keeping your arms in when the wondws were open, transportation of luggage, etc.
I road a small steam engine driven train as a kid visiting the mountains of NC. I remember the ride being a little rough and noisy. That train might have been an older style but I figure trains of the 20's were still no where as quiet and comforable as modern trains. I've taken Amtrack between Sacto and SF and travled by train a lot in Europe, and once they are away from the station and up to speed you can almost forget you were on a train, except for the French TGV, but at those speeds you can expect the ride to be a little bumpy.
I see there is a publication and possibly a video coming out soon that covers the Pullmans, but it seems to be focused on the high-end luxury versions, not what my family will be experiencing.
I assume all Pullmans had porters, even the tourist Pullmans. Am I correct?
The "Harvey House" at the Frisco depot was one of the best places to eat in my home town of Springfield, Missouri, when I was a kid in the 1930's, although there were a lot of other restaurants in that town of 60,000.
Concerning bringing food on board, in recent years some of the trains heading south from Washington, D.C., and I assume other points north, were known as "fried chicken specials" from the meals families brought on board to eat on their way.
m610 Thanks, all. Great information. It's fantastic that this knowledge exists. The Missionary does sound like the way to go, even if it does go out of the way a bit (Los Angeles). Traveling with five kids and having to change trains and get your baggage transfered would have been difficult. I think you answered my questions about food. The Wikipedia entry on the Fred Harvey system sounded quite fond of it. I think I can find a way to have a Harvey Girl make an appearance. Helen, the eldest daughter, did end up working as a waitress in Bakersfield. What was the Fred Harvey and the Harvey Girls status in the mid-20's? All I've read so far describes them in their early days. I expect the Harvey Girls' dress changed, but not by a lot. Then again, the roaring 20's were just beginning to roar and women had the vote, a very different situation thatn when Will Rogers said the Harvey Girls brought food and wives to the west. I guess I need to watch the movie. What kind of engine pulled The Missionary? I assume it was a steam engine, but in a few years would probably be deisel-electric. And how fast did it travel? I have a book from the 1870's that recommended traveling west for your health, instead of to the spas in Europe. It described train travel in the east as being too hurried, running 45 mph, while out west it slowed to a more relaxing 25 mph, slow enough that one could take in the scenery and wildlife. It was interesting reading the policies, such as fares for children, the handling of baggage, transportation of dog, pets, etc. Passanges were told to bring on board only what they needed for the trip, much like airlines do today for carry-on items. Anna, the mother, probably had to get creative to bring enough food on to keep five young stomachs quiet.
Thanks, all. Great information. It's fantastic that this knowledge exists.
The Missionary does sound like the way to go, even if it does go out of the way a bit (Los Angeles). Traveling with five kids and having to change trains and get your baggage transfered would have been difficult.
I think you answered my questions about food. The Wikipedia entry on the Fred Harvey system sounded quite fond of it. I think I can find a way to have a Harvey Girl make an appearance. Helen, the eldest daughter, did end up working as a waitress in Bakersfield.
What was the Fred Harvey and the Harvey Girls status in the mid-20's? All I've read so far describes them in their early days. I expect the Harvey Girls' dress changed, but not by a lot. Then again, the roaring 20's were just beginning to roar and women had the vote, a very different situation thatn when Will Rogers said the Harvey Girls brought food and wives to the west. I guess I need to watch the movie.
What kind of engine pulled The Missionary? I assume it was a steam engine, but in a few years would probably be deisel-electric. And how fast did it travel? I have a book from the 1870's that recommended traveling west for your health, instead of to the spas in Europe. It described train travel in the east as being too hurried, running 45 mph, while out west it slowed to a more relaxing 25 mph, slow enough that one could take in the scenery and wildlife.
It was interesting reading the policies, such as fares for children, the handling of baggage, transportation of dog, pets, etc. Passanges were told to bring on board only what they needed for the trip, much like airlines do today for carry-on items. Anna, the mother, probably had to get creative to bring enough food on to keep five young stomachs quiet.
About your concern about The Missionary and Los Angeles. The train is traveling to Los Angeles but, the subjects of your work will be riding a Chicago-Oakland First Class Pullman or Tourist Sleeper on this train. At Barstow, their car would be switched out and put on another train that would be operating west and northbound, from Barstow to Oakland; they would be getting off of this car at Bakersfield. From Barstow, The Missionary would be traveling south towards Los Angeles. Hence, a "one-seat" Chicago-Bakersfield service. Concerning Fred Harvey: At this time the Harvey brand was still strong. For years Santa Fe bragged "Meals by Fred Harvey" in their timetables, whether the meals were served in their dining cars or in station restaurants along its line. Note, that there were no Harvey Girls working in the dining cars, only in the station restaurants. They had a good number of restaurants in locations stretching from Chicago westward to California along the Santa Fe. They also had restaurants in some non-Santa Fe locations, such as Chicago Union Station (The Missionary and other Santa Fe trains left from Dearborn Station, about a mile away). Another railroad, the Frisco, was another line utilizing Fred Harvey service in their dining cars. As for the Harvey Girls and the roaring 20s: keep in mind that during WW1 women were encouraged to work in the factories while the men were off to war. When the war ended and the US went through a depression in 1920-21, women were strongly encouraged to go back home to become homemakers again while the returning men got their old jobs back. Being a Harvey Girl was still a way for women to earn a living and see another part of the country, but I'm guessing the romanticised notions portrayed in the film The Harvey Girls was not as prevalent by the time the 20's came. In the 20s not all women were flappers or even emulated that lifestyle, especially in smaller towns.If you look up Fred Harvey and the Harvey Girls in Google, you'll see a number of visual resources that provide additional references.Steam was the motive power for The Missionary, and would be for years to come. Santa Fe was a pioneer in utilizing diesel-electric power for their trains. The Super Chief would be their first train utlizing diesels starting in 1935. As time went on, more trains would be hauled by diesels, but the big push would not occur until after WW2. Santa Fe was motivated to dieselize because they spent a lot of financial and physical resources to treat and ship water to their water facilities to replenish their steam engines all along their lines, including desert locations. Another tidbit about riding Pullmans and Tourist sleepers: individuals who purchased lower berths sat in the seat facing forward; those in the upper berths rode backwards, sitting in the other seat.
Also about bringing food aboard: Unlike flying today, where you are strictly limited to what you an bring onboard, the railroads then were more tolarant in passengers bringing food onbard. I'm sure a number of passengers would be bringing food stuffs for the journey ahead on The Missionary, especially in coach and Tourist. I wouldnt be surprised if your subject brings a picnic basket of foodstuffs to keep her kids quiet and content during the journey and maybe pick up some snacks in one of the station restaurants along the way.
m610The Missionary does sound like the way to go, even if it does go out of the way a bit (Los Angeles).
The fastest schedules Chicago to LA in 1923 were about 68 hours for 2200+ miles.
Chicago to Bakersfield via the southwest is a shorter route than via Northern California.
Harvey Houses were still active in the 1920s, with most of the counter staff still women.
Forgot to mention, I have a subscription to Newspapers.com and I have checked the weather for specific dates in the story. I'll check it for route and Bakersfield weather. But, I live in the Sacramento Valley, which is immediately north of the San Joaquine Valley. Here it reached 117F at may place last summer. The valley to the south is even hotter and dryer, but we are talking 100 years ago.
Good point on food service. The Fred Harvey system was one of the hallmarks of travel on the Santa Fe. The restaurants were very aware of trains arriving and departing, and the service was designed to work within tight windows. The delay due to food service stops was not as much as you'd think, as most or all of them coincided with stops to service engines and change crews.
m610 I'm not a train guy so I didn't know what AT&SF meant, but Wikipedia sorted that out for me. I found "The Scout" and "The Missionary" on pages 870 and 871 of the "Offical Guide". It looks like either of those will do.
I'm not a train guy so I didn't know what AT&SF meant, but Wikipedia sorted that out for me.
I found "The Scout" and "The Missionary" on pages 870 and 871 of the "Offical Guide". It looks like either of those will do.
I don't think The Scout would suit your story needs, because at the time, this train did not carry any through sleepers to Oakland, and taking this train would involve a 2+ layover in the early morning hours in Barstow.Concerning the Santa Fe: Of all the Chicago-California services that were offered, only Santa Fe operated its own line all the way from Chicago to California - it could be argued that it was the main player in Chicago-Southern California passenger traffic. The iconic Route 66 would loosely follow the Santa Fe line, except in the center third of the route. Going westbound, at Newton, Kansas, the main line would split: one line, called the Northern Division, would continue west, going through a corner of Colorado, via LaJunta, and then veer south to Albquerque, turning west. The other line, called the Southern Division (or Panhandle Divison), would veer southwest, eventually going through Armarillo, Texas and Clovis, New Mexico. Both lines would eventually merge around Belen, New Mexico, just west of Albquerque. The majority of Santa Fe's through passenger trains operated via the Northern Division. In fact, at this time The Missionary was the only through Santa Fe California train that operated via the Panhandle Division. Timings for both routes were about the same, so I have a suspicision that your story subjects would be steered by the Santa Fe ticket agent to take The Missionary, because it offered a "one-seat" service from Chicago to Bakersfield. The alternate option of #9, The Navajo, (shown on page 869 of the Official Guide you downloaded) operated via the Northern Division, and its schedule was 12 hours "off" from that of The Missionary, leaving Chicago in the morning, and arriving in Bakersfield the third morning. The Missionary left Chicago in the evening, and arrived in Bakersfield in the third evening.Another issue concerns meals. At this time, only Santa Fe's best train, the California Limited, offered a dining car for all meals. All of the other trains offered dining car service only part of the way. For the balance of the trip passengers would eat at Fred Harvey restaurants in specific stations, being given about 30 minutes to purchase and consume their meal. The westbound Missionary only had a dining car between Marcelene, Mo and Kansas City, for breakfast. Beyond that, meal stops could probably be made at:Kansas CityEmporia, KansasNewton, KansasArmarillo, TexasClovis, New MexicoVaughn, New MexicoBelen, New MexicoKingman, ArizonaBarstow, California I believe that snacks could be purchased as well. Hope this verbose description assists you in your story development, and provides a context to your story.
m610 Mid-summer, that is going to be a hot train! This Chicago family is in for a treat.
Mid-summer, that is going to be a hot train! This Chicago family is in for a treat.
Maybe....
Once you decided on a timeframe of travel for your story, you may want to look into newspaper archives of that time period and check out the weather forecasts that were published. Start with your local library and see if they have online access to the New York Times or Chicago Tribune. Another free resource would be www.chroniclingamerica.org, operated by the Library of Congress. They have millions of pages of newspapers from publications from around the country. Looking through these could also give you a sense of the time, what was newsworthy, what people were talking about, sports and entertainment listings, etc.
If I am reading /1923-06-10SP_systemPTT correctly, train 8 leaves San Francisco/Oakland a little before 11 AM and arrives in Bakersfield at 11 PM. Train 50 leaves at 4 PM and arrives in Bakersfield at 3 AM.
I'm not used to reading these.
In the big guide I see the San Francisco Overland, Pacific Limited, Continental Limited, and the California Mail on page 768.
Awesome, guys.
I'll download and dig in and will let you know what I end up using.
I hadn't thought about the summer travel thing. That will be a nice detail to add to the story.
The new time period of travel for the story to summer 1923 changes things in terms of travel offerings, because at this time the Gold Coast Limited did not exist. Instead, a possible direct internary for a Chicago-Bakersfield trip via the Overland Route would be:Chicago-Oakland trainMilwaukee Road #19 - Pacific Limited Lv. Chicago 10:45 am (first day)Southern Pacific #19 - Pacific Limited Ar. Sacramento 4:50 am (third day)Sacramento-Oakland trainSouthern Pacific #31 - Lv. Sacrmamento 8:50 amSouthern Pacific #31 - Ar. Tracy 11:45 amOakland-Los Angeles trainSouthern Pacific #8 - Los Angeles Passenger - Lv. Tracy 1:55 pmSouthern Pacific #8 - Los Angeles Passenger - Ar. Bakersfield 11:40 pmThis itenerary would be challenging for a mother and five children, involving changing trains twice. It also would have been possible, instead, to remain on the Pacific Limited to Oakland, arriving 7:51 am, and pick up the Los Angeles Passenger there instead, leaving Oakland at 11:14 am.The suggestion made by rcdrye of using the Santa Fe would make more sense, since it was possible to travel directly to Bakersfield from Chicago on this railroad, utilizing through Chicago-Oakland Pullman or Tourist sleepers. Santa Fe's west coast service primarily operated to Los Angeles, but in several instances, Oakland bound cars would be switched off at Barstow, to be handled in Barstow-Oakland connecting trains, running through Bakersfield.Using the Santa Fe, the best option would be using Train #21, The Missionary, leaving Chicago at 9:55 pm, arriving Bakersfield at 8:25 pm the third day, via #21, the Barstow-Oakland connection to The Missionary. This train had through Chicago-Oakland Pullmans and Tourist sleepers.Another option via Santa Fe would be #9, The Navajo, leaving Chicago at 10:25 am, and arriving in Bakersfield 8:10 am third morning, via #9, the Barstow-Oakland connection to The Navajo. In this case, Kansas City-Oakland tourist sleepers were added to the train, requiring a change of cars in Kansas City, which would have not been a big deal.The California Limited at this time was primarily a Los Angeles train, with no Oakland connection available westbound.One other item to keep in mind that traveling to California in summer during the 1920's could be somewhat uncomfortable, since the cars had no air conditioning, but screened in car windows could be opened during the journey.
Chicag to Bakersfield could also have been done on AT&SF's California Limited, among other trains. If the route via Sacramento was used, the train to used to Bakersfield would likely have been one of SP's trains. There were three connecting trains out of Sacramento connecting to the San Joaquin Valley trains in either Stockton or Tracy.
Scan of a 1923 SP timetable - Valley trains in tables 11 and 12
https://wx4.org/to/foam/maps/1more7/1923-06-10SP_systemPTT.pdf from
https://wx4.org/to/foam/maps/and_timetables1.html
Schedule book for July 1923 is online
The Official guide of the railways and steam navigation ... July 1923. - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
Thanks all for the great feedback.
Last weekend new information came in on the family's move from Chicago to Bakersfield. I had them making the move in the summer of 1927, for reasons related to Walter's new job. At that time the Gold Coast Limited was running and in California the San Joachine Flyer, too, so I put the family on those trains. Turns out, they made the move sometime before June 1924, probably late summer 1923, to coincide with the start of school. I have newspaper clippings confirming June 1924. That's when the oldest daughter graduated from grammar school. I also have a phone book from that year stating their address.
The chapter will need reworking, and I have to find a train schedule, or schedules, to set the place and time. I could make that all up, but I loved being able to use the actual times when their train stopped or passed through various towns. I want this story to stick as close to documented history as possible.
Some railroads also provided limited food via "news butchers" who sold sandwiches in addition to newspapers. These were more likely to be found in the east, with shorter distances between stations and more frequent schedules, allowing the new butchers to return home.
There was no restriction on passenbers bringing fod and drink onboard trains. But no making a mess or cooking. And no bringing one's own food into the dining car, with some railroads also resrtricting it into the lounge car.
Thanks, all.
THe reason I am digging deeper into the details of this is I want to link this story to the history of the 1920-30s, and if train people read this chapter they wouldn't find any major faults.
For now I am going to stick with the idea that the family traveled on the Gold Coast. I have the rates and the schedule, so I can weave a story using that info.
Was it possible or even allowed for passengers to bring their own food or buy food at the longer stops? I'm trying to picture a mother of five feeding her kids on this 4-day trip, and I can't exactly see them eating in basically a resturant three times a day. Plus I'd expect mom to have brought food for snacks.
Railroad fares - you got them from the ticket agent. The Pullman charges noted are only the price of accomodations. Note that there are some rooms that require a minimum number of railroad fares.
Half fare for children under 12 was near universal until very recently.
Since the Gold Coast was all-Pullman folks would be expected to eat in the diner.
The Barber, Hairdresser, Maid, Valet and bath were all services provided in the Club-Observation car for a price.
The Pacific Limited (via the Chicago Milwaukee and St. Paul) also carried tourist sleepers and coaches. Used Union Station in Chicago.
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