The SP also lost some of its rail focus, getting into things like pipelines and telecommunications (SPRINT stands for Southern Pacific Railroad Internal Networking Telephony)
SP was a well-run property into the 1970s. A number of key product areas turned out to be particularly vulnerable to truck diversion - produce went from a mainstay to an also-ran in about a decade. The collapse of western forest products, though only a brief dip, also took its toll. Runaway fuel prices and inflation broke what remained. SP also tried to get to Chicago, but the cost of rehabbing former Rock Island lines proved a back-breaker. The SFSP merger (as Colorado Rail mentions above) would likely have wound up a disastrous mess. Its failure probably saved SP's footprint, which remains essentially intact - if just as part of UP.
Miningman Tuesday July 21 Photo OTD
Tuesday July 21 Photo OTD
MiningmanOnce upon a time the Southern Pacific was a big deal railroad, dubbed by Trains as the "New Standard of Railroading." ... Of course this is all hard to understand as to just what happened, why, and all that and why is it still not so today in this very manner ...
The comments to this original post give some interesting info on the railroad that was the SP. But no one has attempted to answer minningman's basic question -- framed again in the second sentence above. Basically: Why is the Southern Pacific RR no longer in operation as such -- not a survivor RR?
I am not as familiar with the SP as those making the previous comments to this original post. But I will attempt to answer this basic question, anyhow.
Basically the SP, after WW2, did not continue to modernize as quickly as other western RRs did. When I was living in Chicago (working in the oil industry) in the 1970's & 1980's, the word on the street was that the Sante Fe was the best run RR in the west and possibly in the whole country. Not being in the RR industry, I never knew if this was true; but is seemed to be so. Even the Sante Fe ended up in a combination RR, but with "Sante Fe" a part of the surviving name. Only the UP has been able to absorb other western RRs without putting the acquired RR's name in with the UP name.
The SP was bought by Phil Anschutz and combined with the D&RGW (which he had acquired earlier at a cheap price) into what became a larger SP. But Anschutz was just out to make a buck, not to run a RR. So he sold the combination to the UP at what to him was an attractive profit.
If the SP had earlier been more active in modernizing and cutting costs, it could possibly (althought somewhat remotely) have ended up at least being a named part of a combined RR with a name somenting like the "Southern Pacific - Sante Fe RR" or even the "Southern & Northern Pacific RR." But that was not to be -- because the SP was not strong enough (ie worth enough) -- which made it available for Anschutz to pick up at an attractive (relatively cheap) price.
Bottom line: The SP was an innovative RR early in its existence. Look at cab-forward steam engines and the many profitable rail lines they built, including going all the way from CA to New Orleans. They even came out of WW2 being well run, as cited in the original post. They just lost it after that, and so the SP no longer exists, except as an un-named part of the larger Union Pacific RR -- the surving RR.
The remaining line through Irricana is CN, the CP line has been abandoned.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Good good, thanks Balt. Not very many know where Irricana is!
Well looks like I'm out of a temporary job again as it appears the Photo of the Day has been repaired.
Until next time.
Miningman Heading off to Irricana! ( of Agent Kid aka Bruce) fame. Beautiful locomotives I might add. Behind 144(i) is the Van Horne style station completed January or February 1884 with three chimneys. Calgary (ii) and Medicine Hat structures were the only two of the Van Horne era style stations with three, all others had two chimneys. The sandstone structure (iii) was designed in 1893 and construction started that fall. After completion of this new building the wood structure (ii) was then moved across the main track and yard to the south side. The photo had to be taken summer 1894. Calgary’s first station (i) was a bunk-house which looked much like a box car, but was of a standard design for that purpose. Doug PhillipsNOTE: This is not the 144 of New Brunswick fame so well-known to many along with 29 and 136.
Heading off to Irricana! ( of Agent Kid aka Bruce) fame.
Beautiful locomotives I might add.
Behind 144(i) is the Van Horne style station completed January or February 1884 with three chimneys. Calgary (ii) and Medicine Hat structures were the only two of the Van Horne era style stations with three, all others had two chimneys. The sandstone structure (iii) was designed in 1893 and construction started that fall. After completion of this new building the wood structure (ii) was then moved across the main track and yard to the south side. The photo had to be taken summer 1894. Calgary’s first station (i) was a bunk-house which looked much like a box car, but was of a standard design for that purpose. Doug PhillipsNOTE: This is not the 144 of New Brunswick fame so well-known to many along with 29 and 136.
https://earth.google.com/web/search/Irricana,+AB,+Canada/@51.32236562,-113.60261808,931.19917338a,4320.62752369d,35y,-0h,0t,0r/data=CigiJgokCdduRfL3qENAETlOT2GPqENAGWhvsVLMM1PAIQQkrXhPNFPA
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Those CP 4-4-0's were just plain elegant! There's no other way to put it!
An overdue thankyou to gmpullman for the fine Century series. Great!
Photo Of The Day stuck again. For those of us needing our daily easing into the start of the day I offer this .. a triple photo of the day.
Canadian National Railways
SW1200RS
187 units
Brand new 1583 in Bathurst Street yard with 0-8-0 8384 switching behind. In background is Bathurst Street bridge with Loblaws warehouse at corner of Lake Shore Blvd. W, Tip Top Tailors on south side of Lake Shore Blvd, Molson's Brewery on north side of Fleet Street in CPR's Fez City. GR-12d 1575-1592 (18 units) renumbered 1204-1221. GMD A753 4/1956 Renumbered 1212 (see below).
Two views of three brand new units 1582-1585-1583 at Bathurst Street Yard.
Alco yard diesel partially hidden behind 1582. TTC PCC streetcar on Bathurst Street bridge. Loblaws warehouse in middle background. Second Loblaws building is their Green Grocer building on south side of Lake Shore Blvd.W.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJh_34smPWY
Hey! Mr. Jones is back! Cool!
Several things. OK, the "Shasta Club" may look dated, but to me that's part of the charm. It'd be enjoyable indeed to sit in something like that in a perfect state of preservation, kind of like having a meal in a perfectly preserved post-war American diner.
Oh yeah, those Erie heavy Pacifics. The Erie never saw the need to upgrade to a Hudson type for passenger service, those big K's were more than adequate.
Miningman Tuesday July 21 Photo OTD Once upon a time the Southern Pacific was a big deal railroad, dubbed by Trains as the "New Standard of Railroading". Their colour scheme of their passenger fleets honoured the bright sunny days and the boundless optimism of California.
Once upon a time the Southern Pacific was a big deal railroad, dubbed by Trains as the "New Standard of Railroading". Their colour scheme of their passenger fleets honoured the bright sunny days and the boundless optimism of California.
I love how they extended the white stripe to the pilot; other RRs would just ignore things like this. Every little detail counts, every little choice of our life can make a huge difference. The interior color of the Shasta Club looks dated, but at least it was roomy and comfortable.
Overmod Illustrated (and zoomable!) map of the original T.A.T. route https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~2208~190076:Illustrated-Map-of-the-Route-of-Tra
Illustrated (and zoomable!) map of the original T.A.T. route
https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~2208~190076:Illustrated-Map-of-the-Route-of-Tra
Thanks for the map, Overmod. The whole journey would take 44 hours by road nowadays (skipping St.Louis and Kansas City), the shortest route between New York and Los Angeles takes "only" 41 hours. I am too old for a road trip like this. I wonder what was the consist of the short-lived PRR "The Airway Limited".
PRR THE AIRWAY LIMITED:
Est. 7/7/1929 as advance section of THE AMERICAN; 1st #65;
New York-Port Columbus as part of air-rail service to Los Angeles; eastbound planes connect with THE AMERICAN without any special designation as AIRWAY LIMITED; operated as separate train #55 4/27/1930- 9/28/1930 one hour earlier than #65 a/c Daylight Saving Time; last trip 2/16/1932 due to sudden "temporary" discontinuance of connecting Flight #5 by T&WA.
Flintlock76 ...And if you didn't have to be in Chicago yesterday there were other trains like the "Erie Limited." Certainly not the "Century," but it was a comfortable ride with good amenities and a fine diner. Oh well, what are you gonna do? Times change, some (most) times for the better, sometimes not...
...And if you didn't have to be in Chicago yesterday there were other trains like the "Erie Limited." Certainly not the "Century," but it was a comfortable ride with good amenities and a fine diner.
Oh well, what are you gonna do? Times change, some (most) times for the better, sometimes not...
I almost completely forget the "Erie Limited" and those handsome Erie K class Pacific!
K5b
Jones 3D Modeling Club https://www.youtube.com/Jones3DModelingClub
Overmod Of course T.A.T. evolved into TWA, but in the meantime there was another interesting development, by the end of 1935: TWO HUNDRED NINETEEN mph and widened for 14 to 16 open-section-style sleeper berths plus a kind of bedroom for two. Gets rid of much of the problem with transfers ... and some of the weather and safety issues, too... https://simanaitissays.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/sleeper36.jpg?w=547&h=760 https://simanaitissays.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/dc114.jpg https://simanaitissays.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/berthsclosed.jpg?w=547&h=743
Of course T.A.T. evolved into TWA, but in the meantime there was another interesting development, by the end of 1935:
TWO HUNDRED NINETEEN mph and widened for 14 to 16 open-section-style sleeper berths plus a kind of bedroom for two. Gets rid of much of the problem with transfers ... and some of the weather and safety issues, too...
https://simanaitissays.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/sleeper36.jpg?w=547&h=760
https://simanaitissays.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/dc114.jpg
https://simanaitissays.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/berthsclosed.jpg?w=547&h=743
My mother's eldest sister was the deputy editor of "The Australian Women's Weekly". During the 1970s she told me that she had been invited on an inaugural New York-Los Angeles flight on a Douglas Sleeper Transport (possibly with American Airlines) in 1936. The aircraft was diverted to a small town in the mid-west due to bad weather and the passengers were transferred to a local hotel, still in their nightwear. She was still quite upset about this more than thirty years later, since many of the local residents came out to view the event. I think she went to the Coronation in 1953.
While on the subject of sleeping (or trying to) on aircraft the last Australian 747 departed for storage in Victorville today. For the users of "Flight Radar 24" the aircraft traced out the QANTAS kangaroo logo with its flight path just off the Australian coast. The aircraft is probably still in the air and this logo might still be viewable by users of the site. the flight number is QF7474, registration VH-OEJ. I have slept (or not) on many 747s in all three classes and first class, even when they were sill just seats, is quite acceptable.
Peter
Isn't that something! A few degrees of separation, great info, thanks Overmod.
I'm thinking you would have to have some serious sleeping aids, like a ball peen hammer, to get some shut eye back then. Probably would have done it if I was in my twenties but then I would not be able to afford it at that age. Were I older and could afford it then I would know better and stay on the ground. I'd be a nervous wreck.
And it was not long before folks realized that 92" widened fuselage could take a much more profitable row of regular seats, and so a little thing called the DC-3 was born...
Not long before Hank lost his girlfriend Phoebe to something much more attractive than absence of bituminous smoke...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqP-76KUw8Y
Brochure for the T.A.T. service:
https://simanaitissays.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/tat2909bl.jpg
Coverage of the initial T.A.T. service route. Note the civilized Fred Harvey sit-down meals at the transfer points -- and catered luncheons served in the air...
http://www.dreamsmithphotos.com/arrow/airmail_routes/route_31_34/34/tat_route.html
Ceremonial paperweight
Mike adds this :
TAT
Thanks Mr. Drye! Good Lord, I had no idea!
Thanks to rcdrye for that great info on Southern Pacific and The Crescent Route and thanks to Overmod and gm pullman and all the other comments. We have all learned a lot during this short thread and that's really why we are all here.
The Crescent Limited was operated by Southern Washington-Atlanta, Atlanta & West Point/Western Railway of Alabama (West Point Route) Atlanta- Montgomery, and L&N Montgomery-New Orleans. Southern Railway's through train via the route of today's Crescent was the Southerner. It's not as strange as you might think. Southern didn't have a hammerlock on the Alabama Great Southern and New Orleans & Northeastern until the teens, some time after the Crescent was inaugurated. The Piedmont Limited took the same route, along with some other lesser trains. All of the participating roads bought postwar streamlined cars specifically for the Crescent. Through operation ended in the late 1960s, though bits lingered into 1970 when the last WPR passenger trains were discontinued.
I'm a little confused on this one, "...storms east out of...with the Crescent Limited."
I thought the Crescent Was a Southern Railway train. Is this a section that will meet up with the Southern somewhere?
Appears the Photo of the Day has been restored so I shall retire this thread but keep it in on standby should it be required.
The pic of the Western Railway of Alabama and its description "storms east out of..." certainly is appropriate.
gmpullmanGot to slow down to eighty for scooping water at Lydick.
Oh my. And people gave all that up for more speed, i.e. flying. Nothing really wrong with that, but how can you compare the Century with being sealed in an aluminum tube with minimal amenities. Sure, you got there a hell of a lot faster, but is that all there is?
And if you didn't have to be in Chicago yesterday there were other trains like the "Erie Limited." Certainly not the "Century," but it was a comfortable ride with good amenities and a fine diner.
Oh well, what are you gonna do? Times change, some (most) times for the better, sometimes not.
Welcome aboard The Century —
Century_life9 by Edmund, on Flickr
Yes sir, Bedroom A, car 2502 right here captain.
Century_life7 by Edmund, on Flickr
Cocktails? Of course
Century_life37 by Edmund, on Flickr
— and catch up on some of the latest news. What do you think of the way things are in Europe?
Century_life38 by Edmund, on Flickr
Barely a ripple in my glass. I wonder just how fast we're going?
Century_life40 by Edmund, on Flickr
Throttle's practically hitting the cab roof!
Century_life13 by Edmund, on Flickr
Got to slow down to eighty for scooping water at Lydick.
Century_life20 by Edmund, on Flickr
Sprucing up before dinner —
Century_life35 by Edmund, on Flickr
Stuffed Celery a la Century, Roast Prime Ribs of Beef, Au Jus, Peach Melba with N.Y.C. Special Ice Cream
Century_life33 by Edmund, on Flickr
A little night cap before retiring —
Century_life30 by Edmund, on Flickr
and Chicago in the morning.
Century_life43 by Edmund, on Flickr
Century_life49 by Edmund, on Flickr
Regards, Ed
That would be eastbound (geog. south) train 10, the Shasta Daylight, introduced in 1949 with some new equipment (including the Shasta Club articulated three unit diner/kitchen/lounge) and some cars from earlier Daylights. By 1954 most of the equipment had lost its fluted siding, but was still in Daylight paint. SP's last new coaches came from Pullman-Standard in 1954, with 36" x 54" windows that were the next best thing to a dome car. A 3600 series 3/4 dome rebuilt from a prewar car followed about 1956. The "Shasta" was reduced to tri-weekly part of the year in 1959 and discontinued in 1967. Original power was three-unit E7 sets, the PAs took over as early as 1950. SP's PAs had GE 746 traction motors and dynamic brakes and were quite at home in the mountains until replaced by SDP45s in 1967, too late for the Shasta. Also common in the 1960s were SP's FP7/F7B sets, which also had dynamic brakes. The E7s migrated to the Sunset, Golden State and Coast routes. SP did have a DB-equipped E8 and nine E9s, but they don't seem to have worked the Shasta or Cascade.
The picture is probably on the Davis-Tehama "West Valley Line" which was the favored line for passenger trains well into the Amtrak era. Now leased to California Northern. The Starlight was rerouted over the "East Valley Line" north from Roseville via Marysville and Chico in the 1990s.
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