What Came First, the Railroad or the Locomotive?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

When you consider that I watched the South Shore from my back yard while growing up, locomotives were somewhat incidental.  Joe's, R-motors and the last steeple cabs were part of the mix, but we all got excited about seeing South Shore's only diesel, usually in work train service.

[M636C]

Here in Australia, there wasn't really a choice of railway....

The railways were run by the state governments, as a result of a small population in an area the size of the Continental United States and only five states (well, six if you count Tasmania, an island in the south with railways).

So unless you went interstate (600 miles north, 400 miles south or around 1000 miles west) there was only one railway.

The first locomotive I recall being on the front page of the newspaper was the 60 class Beyer Garratt (in 1952, when I was four years old, or nearly so). I recall the Royal Train of 1954 which had two RSC-3s painted light blue....

In 1955, the state railways celebrated a centenary and a book on locomotives was published, and I was able to understand whe whole operation.

This situation lasted until 1994 when interstate freight services were nationalised and all freight services were privatised in 2000.

Peter

[wjstix]

I grew up across the street from a rail line, so I was fascinated by the railroad before I really understood what the engines were (FMs and Baldwins).

[daveklepper]

What a great photo.  Thanks!!

[Jones1945]

The locomotive always came first for me.

When I was a kid,  it was the power that attracted me first, instead of railroad/railways. I read a lot about the steam engine of the UK. For American's steam engine, I remember the traditional 4-4-0 always appear in the books, I drew a lot of steam engine and fantasy stuff when I was a kid, I put extra attention to the headlamp casing and steam dome on those vintage 4-4-0 American, but I didn't pay much attention to the history of railways/railroads in both countries.  I drew my first 2D drawing when I was 6, and it was a London Underground rolling stock. My mathematics teacher, who later became the school principal,  saw it on the board and asked me who taught me about 2-point perspective; I told her nobody taught me. I was just trying to draw what I saw with my naked eyes anyway.

Later, when I can afford scale models, I had a crush with UK's streamlined locomotive. Although the Mallard was the "fastest" one, I prefer the LMS Coronation Class to other speed record holders. So, it was once again the locomotive attracted me first instead of the railroad/railway. The competition between LNER and LMS never caught my attention. But since the LMS Coronation Class was my favorite steam engine, I spent more time on things about LMS instead of LNER. I did note American's streamliner when I was much younger, but I thought they were too gigantic for my taste, especially when I saw that photo showing the LMS Coronation sitting next to B&O's P-7 #5304 during the 1939 World Fair. But I changed my mind just a few years ago.

For American's railroading, It was a brass train of PRR's S2 that caught my attention just a few years ago, so it was another case of power first, railroad later. The PRR is still my favorite RR, not because it was perfect, but its dramatic and symbolic history.  The SP's SP 4-10-2 and SP's GS-2/3 motivated me to learn about the Southern Pacific, my 2nd favorite RR, power followed by railroad again......

 https://blog.mechanicallandscapes.com/2015/06/28/409-library-of-congress-images-a-princess-coronation-in-america/

 

[Flintlock76]

My interest started with steam locomotives, probably because my second-oldest memory is  of a steam locomotive!  I loved trains as a little boy but when I realized the steamers were gone my interest evaporated.

I didn't get interested in trains again until many years later.  My favorites are the old "Fallen Flag" 'roads of the Northern New Jersey area where I grew up, especially the Jersey Central and the Erie.  

I was a student of military history for the longest time, still am to a degree, but I got tired of reading about people killing people and wanted to learn some history about something CONstructive instead of DEstructive.  Railroads fill the bill nicely.

PS:  Living in Virginia now as I do I just love the Norfolk & Western, especially after being lucky enough to ride behind 1218 and Mighty 611 on a few occasions, back in the glory days of the NS steam program.

[Penny Trains]

When I was a kid all trains were fascinating.  I don't think it was till I was in my 20's that I really started to like one railroad over another.  In 1991 I chased the 611 for the first time and that really started my love affair with the N & W.  And N & W will likely always be my favorite road.  Those these days it's for more than just sentiment associated with the first loco I chased.

I'm also interrested in all the roads that ran through Cleveland.  And that's based more on the "hometown factor" rather than solely on the equipment used.  Although I do love the CUT P1a electrics!

BTW, when I read the subject header I thought you meant the question literally: did rails come first or did locomotives?  To which the answer of course was horse drawn rail cars.  But the alternative answer I thought of was "Neither.  The rate hike came first!" 

[daveklepper]

Both,  sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes both at the same time.

New Haven  ----   railroad first

PRR and New York Central:   both at the same time

D&RGW:   railroad first, the scenery, the topograpny, the history, the challange

Norfolk and Western and Southern Pacific:  Power first, the N&W Y5 and Y6, A, and J, the SP Daylights and Cab Forwards

All this a very long time ago, reconstructing teenage and even childhood memories

[selector]

It’s a bit more involved for me. I first saw steam in action in the INCO switching yard in Sudbury. The three-year-old kid I was couldn’t tear my eyes off them when we drove by the facility tho’ my parents might have screamed in terror at a developing danger in front.

Then we went to Peru, SA, and lived in the Andes at 14,000 feet. The corporation owned and ran Baldwin 2-8-0 steamers which saw use until about 1965. Their replacements, while novel, didn’t fascinate me. Their successors still don’t.

So, for me, it is about the power, but they were designed for a purpose on specific terrain. That brings the road into the equation. I like the brutish articulated steamers, so I feel I need to gain at least some appreciation for their provenance. The C&O and N&W come to mind.

Power before the road for me, but the road discerned the requirement and then launched the acquisition. That deserves some understanding as well.

[Overmod]

Very interesting question.

Many times I've come to like railroads because of their power.  In a few cases, the railroad catches my interest and I then look at, or gain appreciation for, what they ran (the Lehigh & New England 2-10-0s being one case in point).

There are also cases where I follow a locomotive through sequential ownership with interest  - TH&B with its Hudsons, for example.  (Many more examples with diesels).

I came to love the New Haven in the early '60s as a child because of the wonder of its operations, and then came to know more about the power.  Which, in turn, got me looking at other operations of the railroad.  Sometimes the two, power and railroad, go together by turns.

[jeffhergert]

If you like the NYC, wouldn't you like Niagaras instead of Northerns?

For me the railroad (Rock Island) came first because I have no first hand knowledge of RI steam.  Over the years since becoming a fan, I've obtained books and articles on their steam engines.  I like their Northerns and Mikados best.  I also like Northerns, or whatever name specific railroads might use, and Mikados of other railroads, too.

Jeff 

Note to Classic Trains about RI 4-8-4s in the article about steam's last big year, 1944.  The final 20 (10 oil on 44' and 10 coal in 46') were class R-67, not R-67b of the previous 65 engines.  The 'b' denoted an engine equipped with a booster and the last 20 didn't have them.

[Backshop]

We have had threads here on "Favorite Locomotive" and "Favorite Railroad" but I've never seen them combined.  In other words, do you like a certain steam locomotive type because of the railroad that used it or do you like a railroad because of their locomotives.  A perfect example would be that you like Northerns and Hudsons, so you like the NYC.  Or, because you like the NYC, you like Northerns and Hudsons.

For me, it can go both ways.  I've always been interested in the anthracite roads, so big Consols have always interested me.  On the other hand, I've always liked Berkshires, so I'm interested in (most of) the roads that ran them.