From Mike:
http://njaohdiv1.org/irish-history/irish-railroad-workers/
This will get you moving!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ3pGQv9HVg
Well thanks for that Mike, and thanks Miningman for passing it along!
I tried to find an equally rousing Irish railroad song to add to the collection, but could only find some dismal versions of "Drill Ye Tarriers Drill."
So, this isn't railroad related, but it's Irish and very historic, and rousing too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkpk0-0cfVU
Which reminds me, I have to go dig out my Irish Brigade flag for display tomorrow!
Happy Saint Patrick's Day all!
Paddy fueled
http://www.hsccmd.org/Documents/Carroll%20County%20Times%20Yesteryears/2009/04-12-2009.pdf
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I think those angry Irishmen had a pretty legitimate beef, don't you?
Flintlock76I think those angry Irishmen had a pretty legitimate beef, don't you?
MiningmanThis will get you moving!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ3pGQv9HVg
That's a great one! Here's my favorite rail related song. "Driving the Last Spike" by Genesis 1991. It's about those who didn't come back from building the English railways.
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Flintlock76So, this isn't railroad related, but it's Irish and very historic, and rousing too! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkpk0-0cfVU
It was a good song until they mentioned ole' George Brinton McLead em' nowhere! To quote Comic Book Guy, "WORST GENERAL EVER!"
Overmod et all -- Corned Beef and cabbage, once a year tastes great on this day and a tall glass of Guinness. I will under no circumstances tell my cardiologist.
We are all Irish today regardless... O'Overmod, O'Flintlock, O'Penny, O'Mike and so on.
Miningman Overmod et all -- Corned Beef and cabbage, once a year tastes great on this day and a tall glass of Guinness. I will under no circumstances tell my cardiologist. We are all Irish today regardless... O'Overmod, O'Flintlock, O'Penny, O'Mike and so on.
Boys, I've got me a turrible confession t'make...
"Bless me Father, for I have sinned..."
I can't stand corned beef and cabbage! Thanks be t' God me mother only made it once a year!
Actually, Mom said over in Ireland they were lucky if they got salt pork! The corned beef didn't make it into the mix until they made it to New York. And even then the Irish picked it up from the Jewish delis!
Makes me glad I'm half-Italian! It's been said the Italians saved American cuisine! More than a grain of truth in that!
Makes sense, Saint Patrick was Roman after all! Roma aeterna est!
Becky, you've got to remember the song was written in 1862. Who'd have thought McClellan would bomb so badly at that time?
Oh well, it's a truism as old as war itself, sometimes the best trainers and administrators just don't have what it takes to be combat commanders.
Probably going to be my last green post, back to normal tomorrow.
At least we had some fun on the "Classic Trains" Saint Patrick's Day thread. The one over on "Trains" has turned into an angst exercise.
Good way to end the night.
For what it's worth, we Orthodox did a St. Patrick's celebration as well. After the 4:00 PM Vespers, beer was provided at the meal. Ireland, Croatia, the Czech Republic, and Russia were represented as far as the beer goes. None of it dyed green, though.
Quoting Flintlock "Becky, you've got to remember the song was written in 1862. Who'd have thought McClellan would bomb so badly at that time?" I have often wondered about McClelland. When he took his army down to Hampton Roads and then marched it up the Lower Neck of Virginia in 1862, intending to take Richmond, he believed his spies who had been given the impression that there were far more Confedrate troops there than actually were present--so he retreated to the Roads, loaded his men and equipment back on the ships, and took them back to Washington. Later, after the second Battle of Manassas, he was reinstated as commander of the Army of the Potomac for President Lincoln said that he did not have anyone else. Then, after the battle at Sharpsburg, he refused to follow the Army of North Virginia, claiming that his men needed a rest.
Johnny
Johnny, I think McClellan's problems were as follows...
1) He was more concerned about not losing a battle than he was about winning one.
2) He loved the Army Of The Potomac. He'd put his heart and soul into organizing and training it, in addition to doing all the other things a commanding general should do, such as making sure it was well-supllied, well-fed, and paid on time. The troops repspected him for that and loved him right back.
Now that being the case, he was extremely reluctant to take out and get damaged the thing he loved. Understandable, but an army does exist to fight after all.
3) I'm speculating here, but I think when McClellan did get into combat he was shocked and appalled by what he saw and stunned into inaction and irresolution. He had Lee on the ropes at Antietam and could have destroyed the Army Of Northern Virginia then and there, but never gave the orders that would have made it happen. Remember no American general officer had seen war on that kind of scale before. The sheer amount of battlefield carnage that marked the Civil War would have come as no surprise to a veteran of the Napoleonic Wars, but we'd never had anything like that here.
It wasn't until later in the war that the North would get men in positions of command who could "Remove themselves from themselves" and "tune out," for lack of a better term, all the carnage going on around them and do what they had to do to win.
Wayne
McClellan is the single greatest example of WHY we need a standing army, which didn't exist in 1860 as we would think of it today. Scott's army was very small and mostly concerned with protecting westward expansion. If his army had looked like our modern military, McClellan would have remained as a training officer, as that was his strongest suit. In terms of his war record, I tend to side with those who believe he was more interrested in opposing Lincoln in 64, which he did. There's a great line in the movie Gettysburg between Lee and Longstreet where Sheen says "To be a good soldier you must love the army. But to be a good commander you must be willing to order the death of the thing you love." And I think you're right Wayne, McClellan couldn't do that.
Sound reasoning Becky, very sound indeed. I concur absolutely.
Switching Generals and Wars - we know President Truman and General MacArthur didn't hit it off, as MacArthur at best chafed against the authority of the President. I seems that MacArthur had trouble complying with the authority of the President long before the Korean War - witness MacArthur's handling of the Bonus Army situation in the early years of the Great Depression.
There was a colonel who was supposed to handle the Bonus Army dispersal, however MacArthur knew it was going to be a dirty job that in all likelyhood was going to ruin that officer's career in the long run. So, being the US Army Chief of Staff, and at the pinnicle of his career anyway, he took on the job himself.
Then majors Dwight Eisenhower and George Patton were there as well. They sure didn't like it either. Not a good episode.
Just to go back and tie together the Army posts and St.Patrick's Day posts...an interesting stereotype of Civil War or Western movies that's actually true is the Irish Sergeant. In the early 1800's the British set up free public grade schools in Ireland (before they had them in England). The catch was the schools were only conducted in English - the Brits thought that was a way to "Anglicize" the Irish, who still largely spoke Gaelic. In the Civil War, and later the West, many of the troops were immigrants who either didn't speak English or were illiterate...or both. So it often was the Irish immigrant who could read and write English who became the Corporal or Sargeant. Similarly once civil service tests came along, it was easier for the Irish lads to pass the test and be hired as cops.
And what would we be doin' without fine Irish sergeants in the John Ford movies like this distinguished gent?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL_K072ZJCQ
Well, OK, Victor McLaglan was really English, but you know what I mean!
Here are some green toy trains before we get accused of having no rail content . Although the first one is Thai not Irish.
And some real Irish steam locos:
That should satisfy our thread rail-related requirements eh?
There is that movie that came out the year I was born, "The Quiet Man."... Besides John Wayne, Maureen O'Hara, and Barry Fitzgerald, it features a narrow gauge steam line which almost certainly is extinct today.
You get to hear Maureen speaking in the Irish. Incidently, that's a language I studied back in Michigan at the Detroit Gaelic league. I made the fatal mistake of ordering a Bushmills at the bar. I got it served in a plastic cup with a hate stare
By the way, I was under the impression St. Patrick was from Britain. Celtic Britain, that is. The name Britain comes from the original Celts, some of whom traveled back to the Continent, into what is now known as Brittany .
It's true that Saint Patrick was born in Britain, or specifically the Roman province of Britannia as it was called at the time. His father was a Roman official, although whether he was "Roman" Roman or a Briton in Roman service isn't known with any certainty.
At any rate young Patrick was captured by Irish slavers and spent several years in bondage in Ireland before he managed to escape back to Britannia. After he made it home he proceeded to the continent to study for the priesthood.
And the rest, as they say, is history.
And I just love the look of that Irish narrow-gauge locomotive in "The Quiet Man." It looks like a storybook engine!
Have a look and see if you agree...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6YrqZ7HZ-0
Great run-by toward the end of the clip. And look at the size of Big John compared to everyone else!
That's what I like about this forum. Besides trains, we discuss history, language, cuisine, WWII, even a great Saint common to both East and West.
I buried my one Orthodox Irishman, Patrick, 20 years ago. Just like the old song, one parent was Orange, the other Green. So in the end, he had to become Orthodox to marry his wife. He is buried on one side of my wife, my poor daughter in law, who left us far too soon( she was also Irish) , is buried on the other side.
Flintlock76And I just love the look of that Irish narrow-gauge locomotive in "The Quiet Man." It looks like a storybook engine! Have a look and see if you agree... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6YrqZ7HZ-0 Great run-by toward the end of the clip. And look at the size of Big John compared to everyone else!
With the train crew as shown in that scene - I am surprised the train was only 3 hours late 'as usual'.
DeggestyThen, after the battle at Sharpsburg, he [McClellan] refused to follow the Army of North Virginia, claiming that his men needed a rest.
He wrote President Lincoln that his horses were fatigued. Lincoln wrote back wanting to know what his horses had done since the battle that would fatigue anything.
rcdrye Deggesty Then, after the battle at Sharpsburg, he [McClellan] refused to follow the Army of North Virginia, claiming that his men needed a rest. He wrote President Lincoln that his horses were fatigued. Lincoln wrote back wanting to know what his horses had done since the battle that would fatigue anything.
Deggesty Then, after the battle at Sharpsburg, he [McClellan] refused to follow the Army of North Virginia, claiming that his men needed a rest.
Spooked by Antietam. He didn't want to tangle with Lee again.
Lincoln also wrote to McClellan asking "If you're not going to use the army do you mind if I borrow it for a while?"
Ol' Abe summed up McClellan pretty well, "He's an admirable engineer, but he only seems to have a talent for stationary engines!"
Flintlock76 And I just love the look of that Irish narrow-gauge locomotive in "The Quiet Man." It looks like a storybook engine!
Actually it's not only not narrow-gauge, it's "Irish Broad gauge"...5' instead of the usual 4' 8-1/2" "standard" gauge. Irish (and British) train equipment - especially on branch lines - were just very small compared to what you'd see in the US except on narrow-gauge lines. Ireland did/does have standard gauge lines in Ulster, since cars are brought by ferry from Britain, and there have been narrow-gauge lines especially for hauling peat.
BTW Castletown is an actual town in County Laois. The station opened in 1848 from what I could find. Interestingly, at one time the Barons of Castletown had the last name of Fitzpatrick, which was my great-great-grandmother's maiden name, and was I believe born in that area.
The Irish gauge is actually 5'3", also found in Victoria and South Australia. The Russian gauge (also in Finland) is 5'.
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