Now and Then

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Now and Then
Posted by Miningman on Friday, March 15, 2019 5:50 PM

From Mike

This is a terrific video.

Hudson Yards 

 
 
 
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, March 15, 2019 7:29 PM

That is  a terrific video!  Absolutely stunning!

Now I really know  it's the 21st Century in New York City, very futuristic buildings, not quite science fiction but almost there.

Thanks Mike!

However, for a return to a past as comfortable as an old pair of slippers, check the Royal Hudson thread, I've just added something there.  Woo hoo!

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, March 15, 2019 11:09 PM

I asked Mike what the funky building was with all the up and down stairs. He sent back with these links.

Freakin' amazing. Holi-Cow! 

I get the willies just watching the video. 

Reminds me of Mesopotamian Ziggurats. I will admire it from ground level. Also on the link there is another to Pennsylvania Station and a fellow who conducts tours. Very nice.

spiral staircase to nowhere
 

 Late edit add-on

designed by an Englishman, subway ride from Grand Central & Times Square
 
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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, March 16, 2019 11:54 AM

Miningman
I asked Mike what the funky building was with all the up and down stairs. He sent back with these links. Freakin' amazing. Holi-Cow! I get the willies just watching the video.

It's good (even allowing for the fruity video) ... but not in the league of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=Rsj1pkfolxI

which not only has explicit railroad history but is still cutting-edge architecture over half a century later.

And yes, here they could have built it without compromising the Moynihan Station building ... and it could be argued it could have been built right in this location in the early 1960s without compromising Penn Station.  But of course it had green-team history...

 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, March 16, 2019 12:21 PM

Yes agreed very nice.

Question-- Who paid for 'The Vessel' ?  Must have cost some large and they say there is no admission and it's free access. 

I'll wait and see what The Vessel ends up looking like after they put in all the thousands of plants and trees . It will become the hanging gardens of Babylon! 

The mirrored highly polished gold/copper finish is quite stunning. 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, March 16, 2019 4:17 PM
Two Hundred Million Dollars... $ 200,000,000... ( and loss of revenue space from tenants) ... Whaaaaat? Geez Louise!
 
Excerpt from Fortune magazine, Sept. 24, 2016
 
 
It was perhaps the greatest mystery in the world of urban design–what exactly was the great monument that Stephen Ross pledged to plant in the gigantic public plaza of the Hudson Yards? For years, it was well known that Ross, founder and chairman of the Related Companies, was auditioning almost a dozen of the world’s top sculptors and designers for the job…
Ross’ partners at Related–one of America’s largest private developers–were less than thrilled about spending $200 million on a non-revenue-producing giant matrix of staircases when they were striving to fill thousands of square feet with tenants…
 
PS... I hope the dang thing doesn't  tip over 'cause it looks like it could. 
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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, March 16, 2019 9:09 PM

Miningman
 Two Hundred Million Dollars... $ 200,000,000... ( and loss of revenue space from tenants) ... Whaaaaat? Geez Louise!    

In upscale developments - not all space can be revune producing - upscale clients don't want to be treated like cattle.

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, March 16, 2019 9:17 PM

Well fine, but $200,000,000! How about a squash court and a nice skateboard park? Some nice trees and a few squirrels.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, March 18, 2019 4:27 AM

Overmod

It's good (even allowing for the fruity video) ... but not in the league of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=Rsj1pkfolxI

which not only has explicit railroad history but is still cutting-edge architecture over half a century later.

And yes, here they could have built it without compromising the Moynihan Station building ... and it could be argued it could have been built right in this location in the early 1960s without compromising Penn Station.  But of course it had green-team history...

Wanna see a copy cat of it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canton_Tower

Coffee

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, March 18, 2019 7:36 AM

A squash court and a skateboard park are products of a mind that is less than artistic.  Archetects, the celebrated ones, are artists who create three dimensional sculptures as buildings for people to use - a high end development like Hudson Yards needs some form of captivating centerpiece - squash courts and a skateboard park just don't cut it as a centerpiece. 

$200M might seem like a high price - in the context of Hudson Yards it is just 'walk around money'.  In the context of the prairies of Saskatchewan and Manitoba it is BIG MONEY.  Like art anywhere - it is in the eye of the beer holder.

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, March 18, 2019 9:27 AM

Well at least they are getting something substantial. A white canvas with a vertical red stripe painted with a roller up the middle  for 25 million is absurd. Toronto paid millions for The Archer sculpture in front of city hall which is just a blob of steel. It's dumb. Looks dumb. 

As for carrying around money I can sympathize. $200,000,000 million is handy when you need an ice cream cone and you never know when you  run into a casino on ones travels. Be prepared! 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, March 18, 2019 12:02 PM

Oh, my dear Miningman, you know the homo sapiens had a very long history of using artwork to launder money, don't you?  Of course, I am not saying all dealing or purchases of artwork involve money laundering, but it exists and nobody can stop it. I heard a wealthy family of one of my friend's friend's friend's friend had tons of antique in the basement storage of their 3-story mansion. Before they demolished their father's house, (he was a  famed billionaire and politician in the 1930s) for their own property development, they let their most trusted servant randomly pick one item of antiques in their storage but turn out all of them are fakes made in the 1960s to 1970s. They probably don't know they are fake since their father died when they were very young and they do treat their old servants extremely well. 

Regarding  Hudson Yards' 'The Vessel', it has values that can't be quantized: the designer, the traveler, the tenant, the property developer, the community and New York City itself will be benefited from this amazing structure.  Any great city like New York always needs more new epic, charming and creative landmark which is good enough to match the status of the city.

But I do agree with you that some contemporary artworks are plain stupid; lack of skill and talent, made a mystery of nothing to gloss over their laziness and shallowness, wasting (my) time (to watch them), wasting of public space and resources...  CoffeeSmile, Wink & Grin

 

The Gateway Arch at St. Louis is amazing. 

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, March 18, 2019 6:07 PM
$200,000,000 Vessel = about 6 round trip subway rides from Times Square.  
 
Excerpt from “The Cost of New York City’s Hudson Yards Redevelopment Project”
 
 
(Hudson Yards Infrastructure Corporation] bond proceeds covered the estimated cost for the subway extension, which was $2.1 billion in FY2006. Of this total, $100 million was marked for costs overruns. However, bids for the excavation of the line were higher than expected, forcing the city to cut one of the two planned stations to save $450 million... But despite scaling back the plans, the cost still went over the estimate by $267 million, for a total of $2.367 billion.
 
Thanks to Mike for this information.
 
Thank you Jones for your reply. Very interesting. Still lots of it  hiding in vaults in Switzerland.Geez, wonder how that got there.  

 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, March 18, 2019 7:12 PM

Miningman
$200,000,000 Vessel = about 6 round trip subway rides from Times Square.  
 
Excerpt from “The Cost of New York City’s Hudson Yards Redevelopment Project”
 
 
(Hudson Yards Infrastructure Corporation] bond proceeds covered the estimated cost for the subway extension, which was $2.1 billion in FY2006. Of this total, $100 million was marked for costs overruns. However, bids for the excavation of the line were higher than expected, forcing the city to cut one of the two planned stations to save $450 million... But despite scaling back the plans, the cost still went over the estimate by $267 million, for a total of $2.367 billion.
 
Thanks to Mike for this information.
 
Thank you Jones for your reply. Very interesting. Still lots of it  hiding in vaults in Switzerland.Geez, wonder how that got there.  

You are welcome, Vince. In case our reader doesn't understand why a family house of a billionaire from the 1930s hiding so many fake pieces of stuff in the storage, please allow me to clarify a little bit:  these fake stuff (The owner probably call them "my collection") itself worth nothing or have very low values, just like some of the contemporary artworks. When A wants to offer bribes to B, A bought a worthless fake stuff from B (B accept bribes) or pay a large amount of money for something have zero or very low values from B, vice versa... the Revenue Department and Custom can do nothing about it since it was just a "normal" dealing of antiques or artworks...

That said, even a true antique or artwork can be used in a corruption case. For example, a headlight used on one of the Dreyfuss Hudson worth 800K USD, but the buyer pay 30% more to the seller on purpose,  so on and so forth... CoffeeSurprise

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, March 18, 2019 10:58 PM
Heights give me the willies real bad. Tough Mining Guy living in the harsh North on the Shield reduced to a quivering spinhead.  
 
Strangely 'in reverse' mirror image of the above, standing on the deck of a cage with 8,000 feet of shaft beneath my feet doesn't bother me a bit. Of course I can't see that and I won't go anywhere near a shaft if the cage isn't there. 
 
Bottom photo shows 'The Vessel' and check out those packed full tracks of stored trains for Penn Station. 
 
Fay Wray refusing to look at Weehawken, NJ.
 
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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 12:24 AM

Here you go... take a walk to the top. 

https://youtu.be/2GBWVXBZn2I

 

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, March 22, 2019 11:42 PM

Here are some views through time of the Empire State Building and the land area where 'The Vessel' is now. 

In the older colour photo I see what appears to be New York Central Pacemaker boxcars but from what little I know I believe this is PRR trackage. I can see the Post Office building but not Pennsylvania Station, perhaps it has already been tore down.

In the b&w photo Pennsylvania Station is quite visible, or at least it's roof outline.

In the 2019 photo of 'The Vessel' it is apparent that the Empire State Building has greatly diminished in stature and appearance. I wonder if newer generations will bother to notice it . 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXNNCO5tT78&t=1m30s

Late Edit--.Mike straightened me out and schooled me!!

What PRR trackage? This is New York Central's 30th St. Yard. There's a tiny portion of Penn Station waiting room visible behind the post office. "Now and Then" thread. 

Also this:  https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4L8AAOSwgLdawAjh/s-l1600.jpg

 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, March 23, 2019 6:13 PM
looking north, B&O freight station, Starrett Lehigh Building and New York Central 30th St. Yard. 12th Ave. on the left, 11th Ave. down the middle.
 
Important link to magnify photo 

 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, March 23, 2019 11:07 PM

Miningman
looking north, B&O freight station, Starrett Lehigh Building and New York Central 30th St. Yard. 12th Ave. on the left, 11th Ave. down the middle.
 
Important link to magnify photo 

 

 

While the NYC yard was served by the west side line, the B&O yard had no connection to the national rail system except by car float.  Between the two yards visible, there were three more similar boat connected yards for the DL&W, Erie, and LV.  PRR also had a boat served yard a little further north.  There were also some car floats that had a platform between the 2 tracks that allowed the boxcars to be unloaded without ever leaving the carfloat.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, March 24, 2019 9:35 PM
 
I guess the younger generation is not impressed. The " Shwarma" they are calling it. Like the middle eastern meat on a spit. Yikes! Should have built a gigantic model railroad instead. .. Vince 
 
Also, thank you Midland Mike. Puts things in perspective.
 
For 200 hundred million they could have built a NYC Hudson and.a Niagara and a nice roundhouse and run excursion trains along the Hudson ... need a smoke exemption but maybe burn those modified wood chips and apply a lot of modern technology.. just keep it nice white water vapour as much as possible. However as Jonsey states there are likely other 'things' involved when your dealing with big money and art. 
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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, March 24, 2019 10:38 PM

Miningman
https://youtu.be/1cTd73uT108
 
I guess the younger generation is not impressed. The " Shwarma" they are calling it. Like the middle eastern meat on a spit. Yikes! Should have built a gigantic model railroad instead. .. Vince 
 
Also, thank you Midland Mike. Puts things in perspective.

I am wondering if it is ADA compliant?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, March 25, 2019 8:55 AM

Ya know, maybe "The Vessel" would look a lot better if they filled the interior with oversized "to scale" artificial fruit.  Apples, pears, oranges, bananas, plums, know what I mean?

And maybe a big "get-well" card hanging off the side?

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, March 25, 2019 9:18 AM

That would be another $200,000,000. 

New Yorker article on Hudson Yards... whoo boy, 

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/hudson-yards-is-the-hotel-california-of-new-york

 

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Posted by GeoffS on Monday, March 25, 2019 11:28 AM

The whole thing is one big New York city throw away money joke!
This money could have gone to rebuild the Hudson river tunnels that

will be now done (maybe) with my tax money.  And too, with global

warming, I mean climate change, the tunnels will fill with water

and you'll need a boat to get to Hudson Yards!

Geoff

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, March 25, 2019 1:14 PM

Can you imagine what Steamtown or the T-1 Trust could have done with the $200,000,000?

Or any one of a number of rail museums around the country?

I'll tell you, sometimes it hurts to be a railfan.

Somebody say "shwarma?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P05deS1h6oM  

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, March 25, 2019 4:17 PM

Got to luv that schwarma scene in the Avengers. Thanks Flintlock/Wayne! 

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, March 25, 2019 4:22 PM
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, March 25, 2019 5:15 PM

So that B&O building is still there!  Truly amazing!

There's something else amazing if you click on that "ogrforum" link.  At the end of the photo spread there's a shot of the "John J. Harvey", a former FDNY fireboat and 9/11 hero ship.

It seems the "Harvey" was written off by the FDNY and was due to be scrapped, but some fireboat enthusiasts managed to save it.  When the terrorist attack of 9/11/01 happened and the water mains at "Ground Zero" were unusable the "Harvey" was the first fireboat on the scene.  Seeing the catastrophe unfolding the  enthusiasts got the old ship cranked up and on the spot expecting the FDNY was going to need all the help they could get.  All the pumping equipment on the ship was still functional and put to immediate use.  The "Harvey" did yeoman service that day.

No-one's ever going to scrap that ship now.  Ever.  Bow

Here's the website...

https://www.1931fireboat.org  

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, March 25, 2019 6:24 PM

Amazing story Firelock. Something I did not know. That's the sort of story that would not make it up here in any mainstream way. 

Thank you for bringing this to light. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, March 25, 2019 6:46 PM

You're welcome Miningman!  I first heard about the "Harvey" several months after the attack, the story was told in a TV documentary about the 9/11 attacks.  I forget if it was on PBS or one of the History Channels, but it doesn't matter.

I remember choking up a bit when I said ( as I did in my last post)  "No-one's going to scrap that ship now!"  Lady Firestorm choked up too. She does have salt water and fire department in her veins, you know.

I'm choking up a bit now thinking about that ship and the men who crewed her.

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