Just in time for Halloween

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Just in time for Halloween
Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 11:44 PM

Need to shell out? Nothing beats Cadburys.

 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 12:37 AM

love their old Creme Egg, sweet and cheap.

Wish I can read some ghost stories related to the railroad here. But I am afraid it is against the forum rule #2. Wilted Flower

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 6:51 AM

Jones1945
Wish I can read some ghost stories related to the railroad here. But I am afraid it is against the forum rule #2.

I see nothing in Brian's 'revised standard version' of applicable TOS that would preclude rail-related ghost stories.  There were certainly more than a few over the years in Railroad Magazine alone, which makes those historical for discussions here now...

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 9:30 AM

Buffalo Grand Terminal would be better. 

Looking down from the taxi ranks to the old train lines where at its peak, 200 trains ran daily.

Looking down from the taxi ranks to the old train lines where at its peak, 200 trains ran daily. LUKE SPENCER

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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 9:44 AM

Overmod

I see nothing in Brian's 'revised standard version' of applicable TOS that would preclude rail-related ghost stories.  There were certainly more than a few over the years in Railroad Magazine alone, which makes those historical for discussions here now...

Cool. Let's start with this movie "ESCAPE FROM LIMBO" by Pennsy. I think it fits the theme of Halloween. Devil

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 11:32 AM

Good film, have not seen it before. 

Meanwhile back to chocolat, this time in colour.

  

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 4:06 PM

Miningman

Buffalo Grand Terminal would be better. 

Looking down from the taxi ranks to the old train lines where at its peak, 200 trains ran daily.

Looking down from the taxi ranks to the old train lines where at its peak, 200 trains ran daily. LUKE SPENCER

 

 

Was inside here in the Central days, Albany, too.
 
Don't want to go back.
 

Thank You.

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 5:13 PM

BOO!

Thank goodness, the Free Press, still rules at Kalmbach.  If you submit anything that doesn't qualify to fit the Classic Trains forum it won't be approved to be read and that's that!  The only thing you loose is the time spent writing it.

Before you go do your Trick or Treat thing, be sure and check out The Way it Was above the Classic Trains Photo of the Day.  The set of Black and Orange New Haven FAs is quite fitting for today!

HAPPY HALLOWEEN

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 5:36 PM

Miningman

Good film, have not seen it before. 

Meanwhile back to chocolat, this time in colour.

  

 

Vince, you just reduced Lady Firestorm to tears!  One of the things she always looked forward to during a trip to Newfoundland were REAL English Cadburys!

For a while there was a British import food shop in Ridgewood NJ where she could indulge herself, but it's gone now.

The Cadburys available here in the US are good, but just not the same.

Me? I'm in mourning for the late, lamented "MilkShake" candy bars.  It's at this time of year I miss 'em the most. Crying

And dang, I'd love to have that great-looking locomotive!

Wayne

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 6:56 PM

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 7:25 PM

Wow, that was some spread!  Looks like a GM factory!

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 7:37 PM

Betcha it smelled great around there! Talk about a fantasyland! 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 9:15 PM

By George, it's the Kansas of Blighty!

Wonder how sophisticated the calculation to determine the 'effective center of the country' was?  There's sure to be an intellectual discussion of it somewhere.

I rather enjoyed the discussion of marketing on pp. 31-40.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 10:24 PM

Cadbury used to use the students at Roald Dahl's boarding school (Repton) as test subjects for new products. 

It's where he started thinking of the story that became 'Charlie and the Chocolate Factory'.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 10:55 PM

Every time I see 'Repton', I think of the most advanced steam locomotive at Steamtown, the 'one that got away'.  Why couldn't you Britannophiles in Canada have taken it and restored it so we who appreciate sophistication in small packages could have it around easily?

We'll probably lose the Leyland high-speed railbus in much the same way, for the same general reasons.  Hard to believe all the places that thing has gone, or that no one at Amtrak or Leyland either could remember how the Budd-Michelines shunted signals relatively reliably with poor weighted contact... it was a kind of Eighties cover of the NH Mack FCDs, and about as worthwhile, but it was an early attempt at using the Wickens/HSFV research gainfully, and even though it has been aptly if a bit witchily described as product of "a joint venture between Leyland and BR  to combine the worst features of rail and bus" it is still a valuable artifact of how things were looked at toward the end of the Carter Administration...

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, October 31, 2018 11:50 PM

Overmod

Every time I see 'Repton', I think of the most advanced steam locomotive at Steamtown, the 'one that got away'.  Why couldn't you Britannophiles in Canada have taken it and restored it so we who appreciate sophistication in small packages could have it around easily?

I never knew this, but it seems we did just that.  And then sold it back to England Dunce

Repton ran in Nova Scotia after Steamtown sold it:

http://trainweb.org/sandlrwy/cbsr.html

A shame that DEVCO's tourist railway ended up just like all their other ventures. 

But maybe it's just as well that Repton went back across the pond, we don't have a great track record of looking after British locomotives over here.  The CRHA neglected and damaged 'Dominion of Canada', which ended up having to go back home in order to get a proper cosmetic restoration. 

And I shudder to think of what could have happened to 'Flying Scotsman' had Sir William McAlpine not stepped in.

Meanwhile Repton is back in steam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sWT7dCsAIo

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Jones1945 on Thursday, November 01, 2018 4:54 AM

Overmod

...even though it has been aptly if a bit witchily described as a product of "a joint venture between Leyland and BR  to combine the worst features of rail and bus" it is still a valuable artifact of how things were looked at toward the end of the Carter Administration...

lol. I once suspect such idea was inspired by the Aerotrain of GM. But at least the Aerotrain was constructed by new material not used buses. I am a big friend of betterment cars but the 'Pacer' aka "nodding donkeys" is probably the last thing I want to ride on it again. Remember the good old days when the UK wouldn't set the bar too low:

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, November 01, 2018 8:48 AM

Nodding donkeys, that's hilarious! 

From our friend Mike who continues to amaze with stuff no one can find. If you enjoy British rail at all here are vintage scenes around the Bournville plant and station at what appears to be 'near' the end of steam operations. In addition to No 1 there are others, notably a saddletank steam and a siderod Diesel. Also some mainline Diesel powered trains at the Bournvile station. Did the Brits not know how to handle their coal fuelling? Good grief, some pretty chunky coal in there as well. Well everything works so not too bad but perhaps they could get some expertise from the CPR and ring over to the Dominion. 

https://youtu.be/MZDqZ_LCZEw

 

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, November 01, 2018 9:15 AM

One trip in a Pacer I recall was from Bristol Temple Meads to Weston super Mare. It was a two car Class 142, but sadly it was connecting with a seven car HST from Paddington. This wouldn't have been a problem except that about half the passengers from Paddington caught the Pacer. So my experience was similar to peak hour on an LT tube train with the added dynamics of the Pacer. After a few stations i got a seat and the experience reverted to normal, at least for a Pacer.

There have been similar four wheel "railbuses" built and tested in the UK every ten years, from the mid 1930s onward, with varying degrees of success, and definitely preceded the GM Aerotrain. It is surprising how similar these railbuses looked from generation to generation, although being rejected each time (except for the last). BR did build a locomotive hauled coach, on a 64 ft underframe using Leyland bus panels which was analgous to the Aerotrain in some ways.

The Pacers were the only railbuses built in large quantities in the UK.

Peter

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, November 01, 2018 1:11 PM

Jones1945
I once suspect such idea was inspired by the Aerotrain of GM. But at least the Aerotrain was constructed by new material not used buses.

There was a very important difference between the 'American' Leyland bus and the Aerotrain: the suspension.  The Aerotrain as first built had truly pathetic primary suspension and compliance, with the idea -- it worked pretty well on over-the-road GM coaches -- of secondary air-bag suspension (promising good isolation, an absence of spring-rate harmonic effects, and inherent load-leveling for lightweight trains, among other things).  UNfortunately, all the aspects that have made air suspension so well loved in luxury automobiles over the years were present in a train that was expected to negotiate typical pathetic '50s track without all that expensive lining, surfacing, joint build-up, and so forth.  Let alone negotiate it at Zephyr or Hiawatha speeds.

The Leyland we got here was a legitimate 100mph vehicle, with the suspension sophistication to allow that on decent 'permanent way'.  One of the reasons I'd like to see it restored would be to run it, say, on the new rebuilt track north of New Haven toward Springfield, to see if the default level of new construction 'as built' by one of the up-from-the-ground track-building machines would support the Wickens predictions of vehicle dynamics performance.  (And yes, I have given some thought to active weight-transfer management in operation as a way to get around certain ... aspects ... of four-wheel relatively short-wheelbase vehicle construction, especially with unexpectedly high polar moments of inertia at times...)

It was SAID that the last car "improved" by EMD and added to the Aerotrain got rid of the ride issues.  Perhaps someone (hint, hint!) can find what was actually involved with the improvement, and also find objective reporting, perhaps with recorded data, as to how much better the improvement proved to be.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, November 02, 2018 1:03 AM

Overmod

There was a very important difference between the 'American' Leyland bus and the Aerotrain: the suspension.  The Aerotrain as first built had truly pathetic primary suspension and compliance, with the idea -- it worked pretty well on over-the-road GM coaches -- of secondary air-bag suspension (promising good isolation, an absence of spring-rate harmonic effects, and inherent load-leveling for lightweight trains, among other things).  Unfortunately, all the aspects that have made air suspension so well loved in luxury automobiles over the years were present in a train that was expected to negotiate typical pathetic '50s track without all that expensive lining, surfacing, joint build-up, and so forth.  Let alone negotiate it at Zephyr or Hiawatha speeds.

There is a close up pic of the suspension of GM Aerotrain in this pdf file:

https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/docs/gm-heritage-archive/historical-brochures/Innovation_and_Technology/Here_Comes_Tomorrow.pdf

Looks like GM did carefully design the suspension system but it didn't work out. Ironically, riding quality was supposed to be one of the main selling points of GM Aerotrain. It was probably the last attempt to lure patrons back from airlines and coaches but failed miserably.

Speaking of railcars, this was not a successful example, but at least they were not built upon a HSFV. Mack FCD Rail Bus. Coffee

 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Friday, November 02, 2018 1:12 AM

Miningman

Nodding donkeys, that's hilarious! 

From our friend Mike who continues to amaze with stuff no one can find.

https://youtu.be/MZDqZ_LCZEw 

Thank you for posting the link, Vince. Nice video of Cadbury "chocolate train" in color!

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Friday, November 02, 2018 7:42 AM

Gads, it's much more than just a shudder to even consider what the fate of Flying Scotsman would have been had she not retuned to her home rails in Great Britian.

Item: I watched her depart Dallas, over the Katy of all roads, on her US tour.  I loaned my color negatives to a California railfan and they never came home.  I even was even able to photograph Mr. Pegler on the platform at Dallas Union Terminal! 

Had 4472 become stranded in North America, at best remaining on Canadian soil wouldn't been such a bad second in the mighty British Empire, what lad?

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, November 02, 2018 10:28 AM

Jones1945
Speaking of railcars, this was not a successful example, but at least they were not built upon a HSFV. Mack FCD Rail Bus.

Note I referenced these on Wednesday.  Thanks for finding the detail on them!

These did not "fail" so much as suffer from politics: they were ordered by one New Haven administration, and so 'deprioritized' by the next one, even before they were delivered, that no real use was made of them.  (To be fair to MacGinnis, I think union crew requirements turned out to be part of the issue with actual FCD profitability; the things made sense only when run with one man like a road bus.)

It could be argued that most railbuses, anywhere, weren't much of an effective solution in the United States, as 'real' buses were in general a much preferable alternative for a range of reasons.  Even the Evans Auto-Railer never found a particularly workable niche.  Perhaps the local service the FCDs were intended to continue (think of them as doodlebugs on an even smaller scale) would have become expediently cancelled much more quickly had contemporary legislation permitted.  But for mandated service, something very economical was indicated, and the New Haven gets credit for thinking to acquire what looked at that brief point in time like relatively good new equipment for this.

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Posted by Miningman on Friday, November 02, 2018 11:54 PM

Overmod--  Read that section on marketing in the Cadbury book. That was some fairly advanced thinking, kind of like Madison Ave concepts much later in the 60's. 

Seems they did gangbusters during the Depression and took every advantage and utilized some smart concepts. 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, November 03, 2018 6:08 AM

Overmod

Note I referenced these on Wednesday.  Thanks for finding the detail on them!

These did not "fail" so much as suffer from politics: they were ordered by one New Haven administration, and so 'deprioritized' by the next one...... But for mandated service, something very economical was indicated, and the New Haven gets credit for thinking to acquire what looked at that brief point in time like relatively good new equipment for this.

I am glad you like those pics, Overmod Yes. I read about their brief history and note the new administration of New Haven sold most of them without putting them in service (except one?). As you might remember I am a fan of ACF Motorailer, I think these Mack FCD Rail Bus were a simplified and economical version of Motorailer, a much better option than using 3-car consists towed by 2000hp diesel or switcher for mandated services. Look at those deeply cushioned seats, I believe patrons would have loved these railbuses. 

Evans Auto-Railer:

Laugh

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, November 03, 2018 3:56 PM

My Cadbury thread is being highjacked! 

You got one of each of these at my house on Halloween. Wunderbar and Caramilk are Cadburys, Maynard's is a division of Cadburys. Smarties are Nestle and I believe not available in the USA but are the others? Hershey's has the rights to Cadbury items in the States. Folks say it's not even close to the same.

You might need a bowlful of all of these Tuesday night. Good luck and may your definition of the best man or woman win.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, November 03, 2018 6:37 PM

We don't get even a single trick-or-treater.  So I ate their candy!  Pirate

Big Smile  I'm Cuckoo For Choo Choo Stuffs!  Big Smile

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