[Video] Soviet locomotive class AA20 4-14-4

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Posted by Jones1945 on Monday, October 29, 2018 1:57 PM

Trinity River Bottoms Boomer

I found the information about the Russian 4-14-4 that Trains ran in the Jan. 61 iusse in their all time magazine index.  Anyone having that issue might be able to shed more light on the project.  It would be appreciated. 

Thank you for the information! 

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Sunday, October 28, 2018 6:14 AM

I found the information about the Russian 4-14-4 that Trains ran in the Jan. 61 iusse in their all time magazine index.  Anyone having that issue might be able to shed more light on the project.  It would be appreciated.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Thursday, October 18, 2018 9:11 AM

M636C

Here are links to articles on the two units:

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/gas-fuelled-turbine-electric-locomotive-prototype.html

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/experimental-gas-turbine-locomotive-undertakes-haulage-tests.html

I suspect they have the same turbine...

The GT1h has two more axles per unit and would be usable on lighter track.

These are true successors to AA20-1 being powerful locomotives for relatively light track.

Peter 

Thanks for the links, Peter. Glad to know them worked and still in service! I believe the UP steam turbine twins and PRR S2 probably sounded like them!

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Thursday, October 18, 2018 8:10 AM

The Trains January 1961 issue carried an artical on the 4-14-4 by J.N. Westwood titled "The Soviet Search for Super-Power".  Perhaps The Classic Trains staff can receive permission to include it here for educational purposes?

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, October 18, 2018 6:52 AM

Jones1945

 

 
M636C

Do you have the Class or model name of the11,500hp double-unit gas turbine engine? I am more than willing to try seaching for its info since I still had plenty of time available 

There appear to be two possible current locomotives:

One numbered GT1-001 which is 8.3 MW two units both Bo'Bo'Bo'

One numbered GT1h-002 which is two units both Do'Do'

In each case, one unit carries the turbine, the other a cryogenic liquified natural gas tank.

Peter

 

 

Thank you very much, Peter! I thought Overmod was talking about some gigantic locomotives from 80s which I don't. These are some very interesting locomotives I ever seen, thanks for the info!
 

Here are links to articles on the two units:

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/gas-fuelled-turbine-electric-locomotive-prototype.html

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/experimental-gas-turbine-locomotive-undertakes-haulage-tests.html

I suspect they have the same turbine...

The GT1h has two more axles per unit and would be usable on lighter track.

These are true successors to AA20-1 being powerful locomotives for relatively light track.

Peter 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Thursday, October 18, 2018 5:37 AM

M636C

Do you have the Class or model name of the11,500hp double-unit gas turbine engine? I am more than willing to try seaching for its info since I still had plenty of time available 

There appear to be two possible current locomotives:

One numbered GT1-001 which is 8.3 MW two units both Bo'Bo'Bo'

One numbered GT1h-002 which is two units both Do'Do'

In each case, one unit carries the turbine, the other a cryogenic liquified natural gas tank.

Peter

Thank you very much, Peter! I thought Overmod was talking about some gigantic locomotives from 80s which I don't know. These are some very interesting locomotives I ever seen, thanks for the info!

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 1:24 PM

Trains, THE Magazine of Railroading! ran an artical on the railways of the USSR in the early 60s that mentioned the 4-14-4 and had a photo or drawing of this magnificent steam machine as I recall.  Anyone who has this issue please sign in.  I forget which one it was.

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Posted by M636C on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 5:20 AM

Do you have the Class or model name of the11,500hp double-unit gas turbine engine? I am more than willing to try seaching for its info since I still had plenty of time available 

There appear to be two possible current locomotives:

One numbered GT1-001 which is 8.3 MW two units both Bo'Bo'Bo'

One numbered GT1h-002 which is two units both Do'Do'

In each case, one unit carries the turbine, the other a cryogenic liquified natural gas tank.

Peter

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Posted by Jones1945 on Wednesday, October 17, 2018 12:23 AM

Overmod

Note the lack of span bolstering (as effectively present on TEP80) in favor of those long secondary springs.  Is there a traction 'pin' between the pairs of trucks at each end with 'zero weight transfer' link?  (Where is the drawing 'key' and discussion for the numbers on that section drawing??)

Well, you might as well go ahead and provide references for that, what was it, 11,500hp double-unit gas turbine experimental.  I never did see much beyond blurred publicity photographs of it at the time.

Here you are, Overmod. Do you have the Class or model name of the 11,500hp double-unit gas turbine engine? I am more than willing to try seaching for its info since I still had plenty of time available Thumbs Up:

 

All these pics were moved from a Russian "site". I note some Russian folks were discussing about the advantages and disadvantages between one single 6000hp unit (actually 2 in this case) and US style A+B+A 3-unit or 6-unit approach.
 
 Note this gigantic engine were never put into service, no data from operational or test report ever available. But I do remember that China Railway used one single unit diesel engine DF-11 ( 4,840 hp) which was widely used to hauling their express *passenger train at 110mph in early 90s, total 459 of such units were produced. 
 
(Edited)

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 16, 2018 2:02 PM

Jones1945
Bonus Engine: 2ТЭ126

Note the lack of span bolstering (as effectively present on TEP80) in favor of those long secondary springs.  Is there a traction 'pin' between the pairs of trucks at each end with 'zero weight transfer' link?  (Where is the drawing 'key' and discussion for the numbers on that section drawing??)

Well, you might as well go ahead and provide references for that, what was it, 11,500hp double-unit gas turbine experimental.  I never did see much beyond blurred publicity photographs of it at the time.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Tuesday, October 16, 2018 1:26 PM

Overmod

I'm looking forward to see what Penny has under the tree this year, with rockets and jets and all, oh my!

 

 
Jones1945
My favoite Russian locomotive is ЧС4Т.

 

Mine is TEP80, I think.

Pay careful attention around 7:24.  Would YOU have done this? Surprise

Baldwin's mission in 1948, to build a 6000hp single unit passenger diesel engine,  accomplished behind the Iron Curtain 40 years later. 

16-wheel truck? YUMMY.

Bonus Engine: 2ТЭ126 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:23 AM

I'm looking forward to see what Penny has under the tree this year, with rockets and jets and all, oh my!

Jones1945
My favoite Russian locomotive is ЧС4Т.

Mine is TEP80, I think.

Pay careful attention around 7:24.  Would YOU have done that? Surprise

There are few engines that have the presence of a GG1 at speed.  This is one:

 

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Posted by Jones1945 on Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:35 AM

Penny Trains

My favorite Russian train set Wink:

 

Anybody know anything about this thing:

 

I found this little piece but it only calls it a "modified ER22": https://gizmodo.com/293010/the-soviet-union-vs-us-jet-train-race.

In Russia, rocket running on rail track and railcar can fly. DrinksSmile, Wink & Grin Thank you for sharing these pics, Penny Train. My favoite Russian locomotive is ЧС4Т (6500hp passenger engine). 

 

 

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, October 15, 2018 7:48 PM

Way to knock it out of the park Penny! Luv those pics. Wow

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, October 15, 2018 7:23 PM

Ah, them Commies!  It looks like they stole the idea of that railcar with jet engines on it from the New York Central!

Looky...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saG-QQSiG4I

Razor-sharp footage, but silent.  There's nothing wrong with your sound.

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Posted by Penny Trains on Monday, October 15, 2018 7:09 PM

My favorite Russian train set Wink:

Anybody know anything about this thing:

I found this little piece but it only calls it a "modified ER22": https://gizmodo.com/293010/the-soviet-union-vs-us-jet-train-race.

Check out this film.  The AAR's nuclear X-12 appears at about 3:12 and Soviet experiments after that at 4:48:

Big Smile  I'm Cuckoo For Choo Choo Stuffs!  Big Smile

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Monday, October 15, 2018 3:58 PM

Trains ran an artical on Russian Railways in the early 60s which mentioned the 4-14-4 if memory serves me well.  I no longer have my collection but I'm sure one of you can help out as to which issue it was.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, October 14, 2018 11:10 PM

Penny Trains
A 14 drivered loco reminds me of the N-1.

But only the N1 after Korolev died.   Think of him as the Col. Emerson of rockets -- i suspect he could have gotten 30 engines to work.  He was Bartini's protege; to this day I wish I understood how that dialectical version of the design process worked so well for those two -- like a communist version of the Steve Jobs RDF.  

After him the only 'solution' was Glushko's with Energiya (and there was nothing wrong with those things).   They ran out of money instead, kinda like PRR with the T1 extended country-wide... but it would have been a fearful thing had they persisted.  

There is likely a direct connection between the GuLag abuse and Korolev's death, although you hear the story details a bit different (mask fit vs. tracheal tube).  It was still karma for the USSR no matter how you consider it.  

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, October 14, 2018 9:22 PM

Well, Penny and Jones, every machine has a master, regardless of the nonsense they peddle out there these days. That master is us. 

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Posted by Penny Trains on Sunday, October 14, 2018 6:24 PM

I sadly concur.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Sunday, October 14, 2018 3:15 AM

Penny Trains

Soviet N-1 moon rocket:

Why bring it up?  2 answers.

  1. The failure to design larger more powerful engines (like NASA's F-1 and J-2) meant they needed a prohibitive number of smaller engines to perform the task.  Which meant the LV was a plumber's nightmare and all the launches looked like this:

   2. Kamarov was a victim of Stalin's purges and almost died in the gulag, which likely would have meant there wouldn't have been a controlling influence over the rocketry program to reign in Kruschev later on.  If the N-1 HAD worked out, they would have used it to put orbital weapons platforms up there to "drop nuclear bombs on us like rocks from a highway overpass" (Right Stuff).

A 14 drivered loco reminds me of the N-1. 

Homo sapiens never failed to create their own disaster......

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Posted by Penny Trains on Saturday, October 13, 2018 7:59 PM

Soviet N-1 moon rocket:

Why bring it up?  2 answers.

  1. The failure to design larger more powerful engines (like NASA's F-1 and J-2) meant they needed a prohibitive number of smaller engines to perform the task.  Which meant the LV was a plumber's nightmare and all the launches looked like this:

   2. Kamarov was a victim of Stalin's purges and almost died in the gulag, which likely would have meant there wouldn't have been a controlling influence over the rocketry program to reign in Kruschev later on.  If the N-1 HAD worked out, they would have used it to put orbital weapons platforms up there to "drop nuclear bombs on us like rocks from a highway overpass" (Right Stuff).

A 14 drivered loco reminds me of the N-1.

Big Smile  I'm Cuckoo For Choo Choo Stuffs!  Big Smile

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Posted by Firelock76 on Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:35 AM

I really should pay more attention to the "Photo O' The Day" instead of going right to the Forum, I'm probably missing a lot!

And Miningman's right, that is one spectacular "race" photo.  I wonder who "won?"

Now somewhere behind all that smoke is Boston's Hotel Manger.  Railfans in the know staying in Boston would get a room overlooking the North Station terminal.  It was pretty sprawling in it's day and probably one of the best shows in town.

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, October 13, 2018 4:55 AM

Overmod

I should have known why Andreev had no repercussions: he was only secondarily the nominal political head of the railway system in the years they began to race hysterically to get things done in the Stakhovanite propaganda films.  His main job appears to be Stalin's master murderer.  Evidently no one successfully questioned this a la Robespierre until he was too old. 

No wonder this monster engine was stored for 25 years at the Shcherbinka test facility; the whole project was leaded by political agenda. It was still an interesting machine though.

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Posted by M636C on Saturday, October 13, 2018 3:46 AM

Jones1945

 

 
Miningman

Is there a sound reason why the boiler sat so high? UP's 12 coupled didn't look like that.  

 

 

I want to know too, it seems to me that it was like a culture of steam locomotives from Russia / Soviet , I wonder why. 

 

 

Because they could....

The taller stacks improved draught, higher pitching the boiler allowed deeper fireboxes and better ashpans. Everybody would do it if they could, but most loading gauges are more restrictive.

Peter

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Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, October 13, 2018 3:35 AM

Miningman

Is there a sound reason why the boiler sat so high? UP's 12 coupled didn't look like that.  

I want to know too. It seems to me that it was like a culture of steam locomotives from Russia / Soviet , I wonder why. 

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Posted by Miningman on Saturday, October 13, 2018 1:41 AM

As I've recently quoted " Civilization is a thin crust on a volcano".- Havelock Ellis

Do you really think any society or political system anywhere, anytime,  is incapable of slipping into a totalitarian state and very quickly. 

It is terrifying. Not the right place for this kind of discussion but needs saying in this instance. 

Now back to Railroads. 

How about that Photo of the Day with the 3 trains racing side by each out of Boston's North Station. Incredible photo. Boy we had it made it in 1947. Wonder how long that scene would go on for. 

Stunning.

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Friday, October 12, 2018 9:57 PM

"...someone who sits in the Politburo while his wife is in the Gulag..."

I suppose if you're terrified of your boss you'll do anything to stay alive, as reprehensible as it might be. 

I'm sure the Russians are glad to be rid of Communism, check out the reaction of most of the audience during this 2013 concert in St. Petersburg during the playing of "God Save The Tsar."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvMDZag8-DE

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 12, 2018 9:36 PM

I should have known why Andreev had no repercussions: he was only secondarily the nominal political head of the railway system in the years they began to race hysterically to get things done in the Stakhovanite propaganda films.  His main job appears to be Stalin's master murderer.  Evidently no one successfully questioned this a la Robespierre until he was too old.  I'm not sure I understand someone who sits in the Politburo while his wife is in the GuLag ... but perhaps this wasn't uncommon for the master murderers.  Beria was at least a family man and supported democratic reforms at the end; that appears to be why they murdered him, too, in the end.

But to be honest, having a murderer's name on the locomotive doesn't spoil it, any more than, say, swastikas on an 05 class ruin it irretrievably.  And that is from someone whose girlfriend's family lost even more than miningman's did, so it's not meant as insensitivity.

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