Overmod Firelock76 You know Todd, you just reminded ME of something. That coal furnace in my grandparents house didn't just provide heat through a radiator system, it also provided hot water as well. Oh, and this reminds ME of something: I had a college friend whose parents built a house in Doylestown, PA, with an oil furnace that had an integrated 'tankless' heater for the hot water. These are supposed to have a tempering valve installed on them -- this one did NOT. You have not lived until you see 185 degrees F on the water piped to the dishwasher. Sure got the dishes clean, though!!! Could be interesting, in the Chinese sense, when guests took showers, too. Cleans you right down to the bone in just a few seconds. The parents were just used to it ... newfangled convenience made the water hotter than when they were young, don't you know...
Firelock76 You know Todd, you just reminded ME of something. That coal furnace in my grandparents house didn't just provide heat through a radiator system, it also provided hot water as well.
Oh, and this reminds ME of something: I had a college friend whose parents built a house in Doylestown, PA, with an oil furnace that had an integrated 'tankless' heater for the hot water. These are supposed to have a tempering valve installed on them -- this one did NOT.
You have not lived until you see 185 degrees F on the water piped to the dishwasher. Sure got the dishes clean, though!!!
Could be interesting, in the Chinese sense, when guests took showers, too. Cleans you right down to the bone in just a few seconds. The parents were just used to it ... newfangled convenience made the water hotter than when they were young, don't you know...
I have hot water baseboard heating from a oil fired boiler. The 'user water heater' portion of it sprung a small leak. Plumbers had to replace the unit and it's built in gasket - $1050. Have hot water to the house set at 180 degrees - it shortens the time required to boil water on the stove.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Firelock76You know Todd, you just reminded ME of something. That coal furnace in my grandparents house didn't just provide heat through a radiator system, it also provided hot water as well.
You know Todd, you just reminded ME of something. That coal furnace in my grandparents house didn't just provide heat through a radiator system, it also provided hot water as well. I don't remember any electrical power failures back then, but if one happened it wouldn't have been a major concern. With the coal furnace prividing heat and hot water, and the kitchen range being powered by gas, the only thing they needed electricity for would have been for lights and appliances. Having grown up in northern Italy around the turn of the 20th Century they wouldn't have missed the "juice" for as long as it would have taken for the power company to restore it, as kids they lived in what we'd consider pretty primitive circumstances.
Wayne
Firelock, You brought up an old memory.. When I was about 5-6 years old, I recall my great grandfathers farm house in Portage, Michigan. He had a wood burning kitchen range, and a coal burning furnace in the basement. Still had the Dairy Barns and silos too! Sad to say, Today, there is a generic strip-mall on his land. I still have a Horse-Shoe that I grabbed when I was a kid.....
Todd
Well Father, modern diesels may be all "cookie cutter" and have no more personality than they can get out of a paint can, but for railfanning they'll just have to do.
Better than nuthin', but they can still be pretty exciting if you can get up close.
I never experienced E units or the FL9. Really, I don't have much interest in modern diesels, though I do appreciate fuel efficiency and noise reduction. Sorry if I offend!
rrnut282One of the differences you appear to be hearing is modern locomotives are built to tighter standards and are better balanced.
And a far bigger one is that sound reduction through better muffling/silencing is in place. As a case in point, consider the sound of the Cooper-Bessemer in the U34CH, one of the best and most distinctive exhausts (and the best 'honorary steam locomotive' ever heard) vs. the substantially more powerful generations of large GE locomotives that have been progressively developed ... and the 6000hp Deutz-derived designs.
Now, personally, I think there are designs out there that sound at least as good as any of the "legacy" power ... some of the clown-suited New Jersey Transit locomotives with Polish-block 710s being high on the list of satisfying mechanical symphonies on acceleration. (Find some of the YouTube videos with all the morning trains out of, say, Ho-Ho-Kus and listen for a bit.)
I was also fond of the notch-up of the "9043s" when they were introduced, and still am. The sounds go with the appearance.
I'll grant you that nothing quite touches the sounds of a Roots-blown 567; I pulled over and stopped for a few minutes the last time I got to hear 5 of them idling in MU (in the old Mid-South "Meridian Speedway" route's Bossier City engine facility). Amusingly enough my introduction to practical 567s came on fantrips to Harmon, in the tattered E units and FL9s "handling" PC trains; these produced the most fascinating growling and tractor-like rattling and were often lacking enough functioning power assemblies that they would have to be coughed up to speed a couple of times, with copious fogbanks of white smoke, and then idled with the Roots drive singing down in a minor key, before the train had enough way on it to proceed at a steady notch. For some reason I assumed that was the way EMD passenger power was supposed to accelerate!
Balt has a point about racing fans. The same gripe about limited sounds was made on the USAC circuit during the brief period when the gas turbines were running.
Since 2014 - Formula 1 race cars have been using high tech Power Units that start with a 1.6 Liter Turbocharged Internal combustion engine that works in concert with a MGU-K (motor generator unit - kenitic) and a MGU-H (motor generator unit - heat). Both MGU units develop electrical power that can be usefully dispensed by the driver to enhance the lap times of the cars.
Since the first time this Hybrid race cars hit the track there has been near universal scorn for the noises they don't make.
Historically part of the attraction of racing has been viewing the different engineering solutions each team uses to common ideal of going fast and hearing the sounds those solutions generate. Limited sound = limited fan enjoyment. At this point in the cars development lives they have become faster than any other cars designed for their purpose. If you don't sound like you are going fast - to the fan you aren't going fast.
One of the differences you appear to be hearing is modern locomotives are built to tighter standards and are better balanced. In other words a little smoother while operating. It's also a lot harder to find non-tubo powered locomotives track-side. I can see (hear) how the exhaust of a turbo would remind one of a vacuum cleaner.
Like almost everything man-made, give them time and they rattle with the best of the old school power as things work loose.
Fr.Al, You said you rode behind an "S-1". Those had a Non-Turbocharged ALCO 539 engine. The S-2's and S-4's had the Turbo 539's. The "S-3" also had a Non-Turbo 539. The Turbo units were rated at 1000 HP, and the non-turbo units were rated at 660 HP. Those, I recall as sounding like a pack of Harley-Davidsons when leaning into a string of cars.
I rode behind an old Alco S1 on the Oil Creek & Titusville here in PA yesterday. The horn had a distinct Alco sound, which I recall from Vermont Railroad's ex-Rutland RS-1' s back in the 60's. There didn't appear to be the sputtering/whining(for lack of a better description), that I recall from the RS-1'S. It may be because of a smaller engine and also the fact that we didn't go above 10 MPH.
SD70Dude Did she need the vacuum to clean up all the soot from the furnace?
Did she need the vacuum to clean up all the soot from the furnace?
Nah, coal furnace with hot water heat! It was fun to hear the "hisssss" from the radiator safety valves too.
No soot in the house at all, and the coal ash wound up as fertilizer in the garden. did a helluva job too, Grandma and Grandpa's garden was amazing!
3rd rail I can relate to the "Old-Guys" when they lament the passing of the Steam Locomotive. I grew up in the "Diesel Era", so I never knew the steam experience other than a few excursions, etc. But I can relate.. I got into railroads in the early 1970's. Back then you could really hear every cylinder firing on an EMD, or GE. You could, standing trackside, actually "FEEL" the power in front of you. Nowadays, these new EMDs and GEs just seem to glide by without the thunder that we once enjoyed. Sounds like Mothers Hoover vacuum cleaner in the living room. My personal favorite was the ALCO 539 in S-4s/S-2s.. Clouds of black smoke, you could tell that work was being done, and lots of nice 4-cycle diesel music... Now, not to dismiss the EMD 567.. I could go to sleep listening to a GP-9 at idle, rather than my neighbors dog barking for sure. And that brings us to the ultimate smooth soothing sound... A pair of EMD E-8's at idle. That is Four EMD 567-12's all in sync. That is 48 cylinders at 567 cubic inches each, just humming.. No turbo, just normally asperated roots-blowered 2 cycle music. Then add in the other sounds.. Steam gererator spitting, rattling side panels, the "wheep-wheep" of the cab signal from the Conductor giving the Highball... No modern power can ever capture that flavor... Yep, I do miss the old days! I know the "Steam Guys" have their memories, but these are my memories. I even have a soft spot for the F-40-ph now.. I HATED them at first, but when was the last time you saw one in service? The GE P-42's that replaced them will be retired soon, so if you like them, get your photos now, they will be gone before you know it. The new "Charger" locos that take their place look like an anal suppository.. Not that I'd want to shove that up there.. Enjoy the "OLD DAYS" Whatever they might be for your era. Because, whatever happens, change is just like the ocean tides.. You can't change it, and it happens every day.. Todd
I can relate to the "Old-Guys" when they lament the passing of the Steam Locomotive. I grew up in the "Diesel Era", so I never knew the steam experience other than a few excursions, etc. But I can relate.. I got into railroads in the early 1970's. Back then you could really hear every cylinder firing on an EMD, or GE. You could, standing trackside, actually "FEEL" the power in front of you. Nowadays, these new EMDs and GEs just seem to glide by without the thunder that we once enjoyed. Sounds like Mothers Hoover vacuum cleaner in the living room. My personal favorite was the ALCO 539 in S-4s/S-2s.. Clouds of black smoke, you could tell that work was being done, and lots of nice 4-cycle diesel music...
Now, not to dismiss the EMD 567.. I could go to sleep listening to a GP-9 at idle, rather than my neighbors dog barking for sure. And that brings us to the ultimate smooth soothing sound... A pair of EMD E-8's at idle. That is Four EMD 567-12's all in sync. That is 48 cylinders at 567 cubic inches each, just humming.. No turbo, just normally asperated roots-blowered 2 cycle music. Then add in the other sounds.. Steam gererator spitting, rattling side panels, the "wheep-wheep" of the cab signal from the Conductor giving the Highball... No modern power can ever capture that flavor... Yep, I do miss the old days! I know the "Steam Guys" have their memories, but these are my memories. I even have a soft spot for the F-40-ph now.. I HATED them at first, but when was the last time you saw one in service? The GE P-42's that replaced them will be retired soon, so if you like them, get your photos now, they will be gone before you know it. The new "Charger" locos that take their place look like an anal suppository.. Not that I'd want to shove that up there..
Enjoy the "OLD DAYS" Whatever they might be for your era. Because, whatever happens, change is just like the ocean tides.. You can't change it, and it happens every day..
Aviation enthusiasts have the same complaint about modern jet engines.
Too bad motorcycles and big pick-up trucks with dual exhausts, escaped the noise police.
We had a Kirby. Built like a Baldwin and just as heavy. How my mom lugged that thing around is quite a mystery.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
My grandmother's Hoover upright from the 1920's would have put vintage diesels to shame! Built like an New York Central Hudson the whole house shook when she turned that thing on! It was forty years old when I was a kid and it still worked like a champ. Probably could have sucked all the hydrogen out of the "Hindenburg" in thirty seconds!
I don't know what was cooler, that vacuum or the coal furnace in the basement.
Man, they built 'em good back then!
North Carolina Transportation Museum:
Ogden Union Station:
And of course there's METRA:
https://metrarail.com/about-metra/newsroom/metra-f40ph-locomotives-mark-40-years-service
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
If you are pining for F40's take a trip to the Great White North, they still form the backbone of VIA Rail's locomotive fleet.
Yes, I know they were rebuilt with separate HEP gensets a few years ago but they all got new V16 645 engines and still put on an impressive, deafening, smoky show when accelerating a train out of a station.
Your hatred for the F40ph seems to have mellowed over the years, so the Charger, the anal supository, may in the future provide you with the same "relief". I always remind railfans that once upon a time we were bored with F-units. Sieze the opportunity, freeze that moment in time with photo's.
But I agree, they do look like something you'd want to avoid internally.
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