Howard Fogg

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Howard Fogg
Posted by chrispy on Sunday, June 24, 2018 7:10 PM

I have an original Howard Fogg watercolor called "Pittsburgh Forgings" signed by Howard Fogg. It measures 17 3/8 X 24. Can anyone tell me what would be the best way to sell it? Thanks for any information.

 
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Posted by seppburgh2 on Monday, July 16, 2018 9:13 PM

If you look through Trains mag. there are dealers who will by collects.  Also Ebay is another outlet.  Use their search capability to view other Howard Fogg offerings. I use to love his Christmas cards when I was a kid.  Save my pennys to buy a box of 12 to give out to family and teachers!

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, July 17, 2018 11:37 AM

My Lord, is this the original of the picture of the Pittsburgh Forgings plant at Coraopolis, that used to hang in the office building in Pittsburgh?

http://www.silogic.com/trains/P&LE%20Postcards%20by%20Howard%20Fogg.html

 

If it is original, it should be put up for auction directly.  "Dealers who buy collections" will almost certainly lowball, if for no other reason that a single sale gives them comparatively little profit; eBay is likely to be a long, long crapshoot if you set any kind of reasonable reserve (which you should, at least to see the high bids across a period of time) since this will be worth a substantial sum to the 'right' person ... who would just happen to come across the opportunity while the auction is up.

Another alternative is to find dealers in Fogg pieces, and put yours up for consignment (which you can do by providing them a high-resolution scan and keeping the original safely in your possession until a sale is closed). 

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:18 PM

Overmod
My Lord, is this the original of the picture of the Pittsburgh Forgings plant at Coraopolis, that used to hang in the office building in Pittsburgh?

http://www.silogic.com/trains/P&LE%20Postcards%20by%20Howard%20Fogg.html 

If it is original, it should be put up for auction directly.  "Dealers who buy collections" will almost certainly lowball, if for no other reason that a single sale gives them comparatively little profit; eBay is likely to be a long, long crapshoot if you set any kind of reasonable reserve (which you should, at least to see the high bids across a period of time) since this will be worth a substantial sum to the 'right' person ... who would just happen to come across the opportunity while the auction is up.

Another alternative is to find dealers in Fogg pieces, and put yours up for consignment (which you can do by providing them a high-resolution scan and keeping the original safely in your possession until a sale is closed). 

Amazing that most of what Mr. Fogg documented no longer exists.  Sad statement on the path the country has taken in the past half century.

         

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:48 PM

If your painting is indeed a Fogg original than it is very valuble, and quite the piece of history too!

If I may ask, how did you come to own it?  Usually one does not just happen upon a painting like this.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 11:13 AM

Overmod-- Thank you for that link to 'Road to the future' with all the P&LE scenes. Great posting.

Balt and All-- wouldn't it be interesting to go to each of those locations depicted by Fogg and photograph what they are today! The ensuing discussion would be fascinating on many many levels.

In Saskatoon on medical, super hot here 33C, not used to that for me anymore. If the docs don't kill ya the heat will! Check in later tonight, should be home by midnight your time, EDST. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:01 PM

Miningman
Balt and All-- wouldn't it be interesting to go to each of those locations depicted by Fogg and photograph what they are today! The ensuing discussion would be fascinating on many many levels.

The P&LE became a part of the Baltimore Division when it was purchased from the Three Rivers Railroad in the late 1990's.  I don't know what has legally become of the P&LE line between New Castle and Youngstown or between McKeesport and Connellsville.  The Mon Branch between Newell and McKeesport became part of CSX with the ConRail split in 1999.

The McKeesport to New Castle portion of the P&LE, which the B&O had trackage rights over from the late 20's or early 30's onward is now a nominally single track railroad with segments of double track.  In the P&LE's heydays the route was a minimum of double track and in many places it was 3 and 4 tracks - as illustrated by Mr. Fogg's paintings.  

The P&LE's full route became one reality of the Rust Belt with the demise of steel industry in the Pittsburgh and Youngstown areas.  Doing some 'flying' on Google Earth - that entire area is only a shadow of what I remembered seeing in my youth as our B&O train moved along the Monongahela River in the evening to the grand light show that was produced by the steel mills between McKeesport - Pittsburgh - New Castle and through Youngstown.  Days and a industry gone.

         

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, July 22, 2018 11:45 AM

I just got my latest edition of "Maine Antiques Digest" and chrispy, if you're still looking in, I may have some possibilities for you.

Bear in mind these art dealers don't specialize in railroad art, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.  You can try...

Gratz Gallery & Conservation Studio   www.gratzgallery.com

Freeman's American Furniture, Folk & Decorative Arts  lcain@freemansauction.com

Cowan's Auctions  www.cowans.com

Shannon's Fine Art Auctioneers  info@shannons.com  or www.shannons.com

If I come up with some others I'll let you know, but only if I get an indication you're still out there.

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Posted by Backshop on Sunday, July 22, 2018 5:59 PM

Miningman

Balt and All-- wouldn't it be interesting to go to each of those locations depicted by Fogg and photograph what they are today! The ensuing discussion would be fascinating on many many levels.

No, it would be enormously depressing.  Although I've always lived in the Detroit area, I had an uncle in McKeesport, PA who was a Catholic priest.  I visited him for a few days every year in the mid to late 70's and then occasionally stopped in throughout the 80's and 90's.  He passed away then.  I was very familiar with the whole Mon Valley and almost nothing is left.  Other than the J Edgar Thomson and Irvin Works, there are a lot of brownfields.  Homestead, Duquesne, J&L, Mesta Machine and others, all gone.  Youngstown is even worse.  Nothing is left there.

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Posted by Miningman on Sunday, July 22, 2018 6:57 PM

Well that's the point. To compare the absolute dichotomy of it all. No one from that era would believe it. 

I question a digital society verses industrial might.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, July 22, 2018 8:22 PM

Miningman

Well that's the point. To compare the absolute dichotomy of it all. No one from that era would believe it. 

I question a digital society verses industrial might.

 

You said it Miningman!  I just can't help but think that sometime in the future we're going to miss that industrial might, and badly. Not just here in the Western Hemisphere but Western Civilization as a whole.  I hope it doesn't come to pass in the same way I hope a "Digital 'Titanic'"  doesn't come to pass either, but I can't help but shake the nagging feeling that's where we're headed.

Nothing would make me happier than to be proved wrong though, I'm not a gloating "See, I told you so!" kind of guy.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, July 22, 2018 8:32 PM

BaltACD
In the P&LE's heydays the route was a minimum of double track and in many places it was 3 and 4 tracks - as illustrated by Mr. Fogg's paintings.

Although the Internet seems to have forgotten about the dramatic end of the PRR Liberty Limited as a competitive entity from Washington to Chicago in the late Fifties, I have not.  Although I do not have the reference to the Trains article that celebrated it (which I can't find without access to the Complete Collection...)

Trackage rights over the high-speed P&LE at that time made the B&O train become not only a better dining experience, but much quicker than the PRR alternative wandering up if I recall correctly via the Northern Central.  I notice the official story appears to be just that PRR was losing money on their train and therefore cancelled it -- giving no credit to what I recall being described as a Borgia-like competitive success.

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, July 23, 2018 1:40 AM

So in a sense the iconic fiqure of Uncle Sam with sleeves rolled up spiritually leading the Pennsy hauling war material through massive industrial steel mills could or should be the B&O. At least as far as passenger service goes. 

Firelock-- The day will come,THE DAY,  when your and everyone else's bank account reads zero, or minus $5,000, all records of everything digital is gone, the screens are blank, magnetic strips are useless, the stock exchanges read nothing, ...well you get the picture. What's worse is that it is easily foreseeable. Everyone running to the hills with shotguns and cans of beans. Hope I don't live to see that day.

You know the top top tip top secrets and communications are hand written on paper, stored in books, delivered by a courier by hand. Top science labs, vital  research, high order military stuff and your President does this. Stay the heck off the Internet altogether for the real vital stuff. 

Every single one of my class lessons for each subject, for each semester for ten years now is hand written on paper in a thick binder. I have 2.5 walls of thick binders. Of course there's images and relevant information downloaded from the Internet but printed out and placed inside. All my numerous exams over the years are printed and stored in paper files. The Word Processing is all piecemeal and good luck making sense of that. Only items on digital file are power points and even those are printed. I wonder if there are any other profs out there that do this. Maybe one or two. 

We also teach Drafting to the First Year students. Light tables, T-squares, Set Squares, Engineers and Architect Rules, Koh-I-Noor inking pens, LeRoy lettering sets. They love it.

When they take AutoCAD second year and later Vulcan and GemCom it all makes sense. I wonder if anyone does this, something tells me no. 

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, July 23, 2018 8:23 AM

We are relatively self sufficient in ship and airplane manufacture, but that's about it.  We have the Lima Arsenal in Ohio to make armored vehicles but the much bigger Detroit Arsenal is gone.

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, July 23, 2018 2:37 PM

There are no rails at all in the entire province's of Newfoundland and PEI. Vancouver Island is losing all its rail. Major rail lines are gone in Ontario and Quebec. The CASO is gone.

Detroit, Buffalo and so many other areas are a mere echo of what they were. The P&LE and its mighty industrial areas are extinct. It goes on and on. Mid size cities and towns are even worse.

Somehow this is passed off as being good.

The only new things I see are restaurants, a fleeting business if there ever was one. Obesity is through the roof. Everyone living on credit.

There just does not seem to be too much substance. It can vanish, it seems weak and silly. They say everything's in the cloud now. Clouds are nothingness, don't last.

"the deindustrialization of the West, the self-imposition of a holy economic torpor so, in the post-industrial silence we can all contemplate the pristine serenity of self-impoverishment (and the joys of Chinese world domination)."

 

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, July 23, 2018 4:23 PM

I agree with most of what you say.  I'm 59 but I hope that I'm not around for the worst of it.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, July 23, 2018 4:40 PM

Backshop
I agree with most of what you say.  I'm 59 but I hope that I'm not around for the worst of it.

WW III will not be like WW II.  That being said, if the conduct of that war hinges on manpower and materiel.   The war is lost already.

         

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, July 23, 2018 5:37 PM

Any major war we fight will be a "run what ya brung" affair.  It takes way too long to ramp up production, build new facilities or bring online a new weapons system during a war.  Look how long the F35 has been in development and it's just now entering large scale production.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, July 23, 2018 8:09 PM

Holy smoke Miningman, Mechanical Drafting!  I took a course in high school in M-D, haven't thought about it in years, but you nailed it all, T-squares, French curves, compasses, pens you filled with India ink from a dropper, it all comes back!  Ah yes, the Jurassic Period.  (1970)

Although we didn't have light tables.

I didn't anyone did that stuff anymore!  Thank God someone does!

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, July 23, 2018 8:12 PM

If the Chinese invaded 'over the top', that is from the Canadian Arctic, they could quickly capture the North West Territories, Northern Alberta, Northern Saskatchewan and Northern Manitoba in 24-36 hours including the 'Dudes' Edmonton and our, my own, significant airport ( 2nd busiest in Sask.) Huge Uranium Mines and many other resources would be captured in this process. I think they could be down to the US border in another day or two across those three provinces.

How you pull off the initial invasion undetected is another problem, but who knows. Maybe cut a deal with US and forgive some trillions in debt and guarantee Alaska? Naw...Create an electronic/ magnetic window of opportunity? Possible I suppose. 

 Probably easier to just take us over economically one step at a time.  Purchase the Port of Churchill and that would be a great start. 

I'm thinking this is craziest posting I ever made. 

Make a good fiction story...heck, a movie! 

Firelock-- I find the Native students are very very good at this, it really gives them a connection to higher and more difficult tasks on Computer Drafting. I think it's good for any student, anywhere, period. Geologists, Prospectors  and Engineers and other academics that visit have nothing but praise. Someone has to keep the lamp glowing.

You know, big time architects at the top all have these items in their own offices. It's getting harder to get the pen sets and the Leroy sets.

 

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, July 23, 2018 8:21 PM

You know how you stop 'em?

Tell the First Nations people and anyone else that hangs out in the woods that Chinese are good to east, and the season closes tomorrow!

That'll stop 'em!

Oh brother, I hope I don't get in trouble over this...Whistling

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, July 23, 2018 8:25 PM

I'm still trying to figure out how the Chinese get through Russia to get that far north, then south.  They aren't that good of friends.

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Posted by Miningman on Monday, July 23, 2018 10:15 PM

Firelock-- hoooo boy, not good. We shall never speak of this again. I will  sacrifice 2 packs of Pall Malls next sweat lodge and it is gone. 

Backshop-- Well, might as well take the back end of Siberia along the way. That part might actually happen one day. Or just go out to the Pacific and North toward the pole and invade the Arctic Islands and North West Territory. 

I don't know if the DEW line even exists any longer. I know that much of the original outposts are shut down entirely. There MUST be something in it's place. Space satellites can be taken out easy enough to a prelude. Anyway this is kinda freaky and dumb. 

Yet, truth is stranger than fiction. 

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Posted by BigJim on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 4:02 PM

Dang! We go from auction to WWIII in one page! How'd that happen?

.

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Posted by Firelock76 on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:35 PM

BigJim

Dang! We go from auction to WWIII in one page! How'd that happen?

 

I can't figure that one out myself, it's not like we're sitting around the coal stove at the depot "...passing the paper bag that holds the bottle..."  and having the liquor put the conversation into overdrive.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:50 PM

Its easy... Fogg's painting depict and captured the industrialized West and now it is gone.

That has consequences. 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 9:35 PM

I'm not touching this one, but a couple of you did make me laugh!

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 9:42 PM

I looked at a graph of steel production from the 1970s to the present.  In the early 80s steel production dropped about 30%, but then stayed somewhat even to the present time.  I presume some of the loss was to foriegn steel imports, however, some is probably also due to growing substitution by aluminum and plastics.

Also steel production technology has changed.  In the old days scrap iron was mixed with ore in blast furnaces.  Nowdays much of the scrap goes to mini-mills, which are often more scattered across the country, rather than in steel centers, such as those serviced by the P&LE.

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 10:23 PM

Dude-- yeah it's good to have some laughs here and there but you know what cheeses me off?...I got to buy 2 packs of smokes and watch 'em burn after the Sweat! Have to! No choice! ...and we can't get the cheapo smokes up here... taxed to the clouds! Sorry about Edmonton getting overrun but it's where you are. Ditto for me here.

Mike-- Good points. Still industrial might has shifted dramatically. To me everything seems weak and vulnerable.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, July 24, 2018 11:10 PM

No offense taken!  If I were commanding an invading army I would focus on capturing Edmonton too, but I would try not to destroy it.  The oil refining and transportation infrastructure would be invaluable to my forces.  

Historically western Canada was never a steel producer, but today several major cities have scrap re-melting mills, which are large enough to have in-plant railroads, including Edmonton's AltaSteel and Regina's Evraz.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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