The Old Old and the Old New

1449 views
18 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • 3,110 posts
The Old Old and the Old New
Posted by Miningman on Friday, June 01, 2018 10:42 PM

The C Liners were on their last legs...the Alco/MLW S4, far from being new is resplendent in the brand new 'Multi Mark' scheme and would have many more years....and it's a nice picture.

7115 MLW S-4 equipped for road service showing off the latest paint scheme while two units in old colour script paint sit behind it including 4053 an old CLC Fairbanks-Morse covered wagon. Power sits at the east end of Crowsnest Yard. 
Sentry Mountain looms over the scene. March 23, 1973 Bill Hooper

 

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 899 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Friday, June 01, 2018 11:20 PM

Beautiful!

The next numbered C-Liner, 4054, was wrecked in the late 1960s.  CP wanted to rebuild it but was having a hard time finding parts (the carbody was severely damaged).

At the same time CN was retiring all their FM/CLC units, and CP arranged to buy CN 9344 to use as a parts source.  This led to the very odd (unique?) sight of a CN unit hogging space on the Ogden Shop floor.

A book at home has a picture of the units inside, but all I can find online is this shot of the two placed nose to nose out in the boneyard (scroll down to the very bottom, it should open as a PDF download):

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.exporail.org/can_rail/Canadian%2520Rail_no521_2007.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiCucu0j7TbAhUn4IMKHWrfAKwQFjADegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1kdGAz071jzWTAen6Yz4jD

Unfortunately the rebuild did not happen, it was subsequently decided that 4054 was too far gone, and both units were scrapped.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

NDG
  • Member since
    December, 2013
  • 757 posts
Posted by NDG on Saturday, June 02, 2018 12:29 AM

 

Thank You.

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • 3,110 posts
Posted by Miningman on Saturday, June 02, 2018 12:59 AM

Great story NDG..glad I put up the picture, now we know the good fun part. 

  • Member since
    August, 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,616 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, June 03, 2018 10:25 AM

Too bad those F-M C-Liners just didn't live up to their promise, no matter who purchased them, they were a good looking machine.

They looked even better with that classic CPR color scheme, and it's too bad THAT wasn't carried on with, although I'm sure it was expensive to apply.

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • 3,110 posts
Posted by Miningman on Sunday, June 03, 2018 11:58 AM

Firelock--well we do have this!  The only blasphemy is that they are all ex CN/CNR !

Here she is! Fresh out of the RELCO shop in Albia, Iowa after a lengthy remanufacturing that turned this old FP9A 
(ex CNR 6541 GMD A1401 7/1958) into what is really an FP38-3 complete with HEP and all modern electronics 
plus four full-size seats in the cab! Roof detail. Acquired 1998 from Nebkota Ry. 54. 

This unit would lead a cross country train celebrating Canada's 150th anniversary in 2017. 

1401 leads No.8 The Dominion eastbound at Portage La Prairie, Manitoba Circa late 1950's.
Bruce Chapman Collection

4106-1900-4107 heritage diesels for special trains including Royal Canadian Pacific tours. 
Port Coquitlam, BC September 04, 2012 Mark Forseille 

4106 acq. 2006 ex OHCR/VIA 6307 nee CN 6515 FP9u 16-645E3 1800 hp GMD A1045 1/1957
4107 acq. 2006 ex OHCR/VIA 6313 nee CN 6526 FP9u 16-645E3 1800 hp GMD A1198 3/1957
1900 acq. 1998 ex Nebcota 66 ex VIA 6612 nee CN 6612 F9B 16-567C 1750 hp GMD A629 1/1955 
Note: All units geared for 65 mph.

 

 

When introduced I really was excited about the multimark. It really tied together all of CP's operations, Air, Hotels, Trucking, Ships, and Trains. It was the last gasp and attempt at proudly displaying and announcing "Spans The World". 

The grey and maroon/beaver whether in block or script had to be clean as a whistle to be appreciated and the CPR was pretty good at that for a long time, then it all went to heck. 

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 899 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, June 03, 2018 1:52 PM

The last of her kind, at least in one piece:

http://www.okthepk.ca/dataCprSiding/news/2012/2012120301.htm

CP 4065 (another A-unit) is stored indoors and out of public view in Ottawa, and is partially disassembled.  

Until a few years ago two gutted B-units were stored near Okotoks, AB, I do not recall their origin but they ended up being purchased by Pacific Great Eastern/BC Rail and converted into robot cars.  I am not sure what has since become of them, and fear they may have been scrapped.

A shame more were not saved.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 899 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, June 03, 2018 2:07 PM

A better view of 4104's display partner:

http://www.railpictures.ca/?attachment_id=6904

The Baby Train Master came from Squaw Creek Coal in the Midwest U.S, and was never owned by CP.

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • 3,110 posts
Posted by Miningman on Sunday, June 03, 2018 3:19 PM

Terrific stuff Dude. Did not know about #4065, another CPA stashed away in Ottawa. Amazing. 

  • Member since
    August, 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,616 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, June 03, 2018 7:34 PM

Again, just a classy and classic paint scheme, too good to let go of.

I'll tell you something that amazed me, when Norfolk-Southern did their "Heritage Fleet" I was surprised at how well those vintage diesel paint schemes made the transition to modern diesels and their completely different body styles from the old E and F units.  It looked to me like those stylists at GM and ALCO all those years ago were a lot better at their trade than even THEY knew they were.

  • Member since
    August, 2008
  • From: Calgary AB. Canada
  • 2,224 posts
Posted by AgentKid on Sunday, June 03, 2018 9:52 PM

Whenever I see a picture of C-Liner I think of this.

In August of 1963 we went to visit my uncle who was the second trick operator at Lake Louise. It also was my parents 10th Anniversary, so while they went up to have a fancy dinner at The Chateau Lake Louise, my brother and I stayed at the station with Uncle Murray.

Older readers may remember stories in the magazine entittled "24 Hours at . . .". Now I was only 9 at the time, so I didn't know I should have been taking notes. But the things I saw.

First up was a WB Passenger with a C-Liner on the point. And what a story that led to. I did not have a clue what was going on, because it was a cab unit, but it did not look like the EMD's in all of the publicity materials, and what bothered me even more at the time was it did not look like the picture on the Banff reel of View-Master pictures I had. Remember View-Masters?

It took until Christmas of 1993 before I figured out what I saw. There were pictures in the book "Nicholas Morant's Canadian Pacific" c. 1992. The pictures had been taken on the Kicking Horse Pass in the fall of 1966. When I saw those pictures I finally understood what I had seen and I could picture that moment as clear as a bell.

I don't have time for more of what I saw but I will try to get back to it soon.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 9,481 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Monday, June 04, 2018 8:01 AM

Bruce, my wife and I ate lunch in the Lake Louise station 21 years ago, when we were on our way to a short stay at the Chateau Lake Louise (we had a beautiful view of the lake from our room in the Chateau). We wanted to eat there again 11 years ago when we were driving down to Banff--but the restaurant was not open that early in April.

Johnny

  • Member since
    June, 2002
  • 14,099 posts
Posted by daveklepper on Monday, June 04, 2018 9:54 AM

Firelock76

Again, just a classy and classic paint scheme, too good to let go of.

I'll tell you something that amazed me, when Norfolk-Southern did their "Heritage Fleet" I was surprised at how well those vintage diesel paint schemes made the transition to modern diesels and their completely different body styles from the old E and F units.  It looked to me like those stylists at GM and ALCO all those years ago were a lot better at their trade than even THEY knew they were.

 

[quote user="Firelock76"]

I think you have to give NS's own styliests some credid ecellent match of the old and the new.  They had an exacting task and did beautifully.

  • Member since
    August, 2010
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 8,616 posts
Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, June 04, 2018 5:29 PM

No doubt David, and you're absolutely right.

The really great thing was NS didn't have to do it at all, but under Wick Mooreman's hand they did it anyway, and made a spectacular job of it.

  • Member since
    August, 2008
  • From: Calgary AB. Canada
  • 2,224 posts
Posted by AgentKid on Monday, June 04, 2018 11:32 PM

AgentKid
I will try to get back to it soon.

I was unexpectedly called away from the computer yesterday so I will try and finish this now.

There are two more things I want to mention about that evening. Growing up in a branchline station, I was seeing mainline equipment I had never heard of before. This was many years before I ever heard of railway media or books, and decades before the internet. When I think about the volume of ink and paper, and pixels, expended talking about these things since, and I would have been able to reach out and touch them.

The first is Ulysses or U-Class sleepers. These were heavyweight tourist class sleepers that had been recladded, repainted, and otherwise upgraded to match the new Budd cars bought for "The Canadian".

We were told to stay out of the way of the passengers, so I went down to the east end of the platform when the next passenger train stopped. It worked out that the vestibule end of one of these cars stopped right in front of me, and I was stunned.

A bit of context, the reason the CPR 'looked' like it did, is because having it's own shop, Angus, the CPR manufactured many of the parts used in both their locomotives and rolling stock, and when they needed more, they just made more. Well, it turns out that the blind ends and vestibule ends of all of the CPR's heavyweigth passenger equipment was made the same way for many years. The door was closed but that vestible end of that car was identical to the one on the combime I saw on the mixed every week at Irricana. Every shape, seam, bolt head, and what ever, was the same. Except it was painted silver instead of maroon. No don't get me wrong, the company did a really good job of matching the old cars to the new, but I couldn't believe how they did it. And it took many years before I found out the full story.

The final thing I will mention is a TrainMaster, or as my Dad and uncle always referred to them "8900's". The last train of the evening was an EB freight with a mixed consist of units including one 8900. Going up the west side of the pass it had boiled off all of it's cooling water, but they were close enough to the top before they had to cut it out, they had enough momentum to get over. They then coasted down to the station and stopped in front, and I watched them refill the unit. The station was equipped with what reamined of the standpipe system used for steam engines, to refill passenger cars or engines as needed. In the time it took to refill the unit I heard all about the failings of TrainMasters, including what I have read since was a comment that could get you fired, "each TrainMaster should come with it's own tender". I can't tell you the number of times I have read what I first heard that evening.

A very memorable evening indeed.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

  • Member since
    December, 2017
  • From: I've been everywhere, man
  • 899 posts
Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 12:41 AM

C-Liner at Banff:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/364902/

H-Liners at Lake Louise:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/365472/

Train Masters (I hope that's brake smoke!):

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/353283/

 Courtesy and Service!?  We sure could use some of that today:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/361593/

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • 3,110 posts
Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 12:48 AM

Great stories Agent Kid...thank you. Very heartfelt. Good memories. 

I certainly remember the U class tourist sleepers. They definitely invoked a "hey, wait a minute" moment. 

Had to have been quite exciting witnessing locomotives you have not seen before...I vividly remember my first look at the CNR streamlined Northerns (6400's)....I ran into the station and grabbed my mom and insisted she come out to see. We were waiting for a train into Hamilton. Funny how such simple events are firmly emplaced within oneself. 

NDG
  • Member since
    December, 2013
  • 757 posts
Posted by NDG on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 3:03 AM

Thank You.

  • Member since
    September, 2003
  • 6,060 posts
Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, June 05, 2018 9:36 AM

A 'snubber' on an OP engine isn't so much a "muffler" (which uses baffles to mute exhaust sound) as it is a 'pulse dampener' that takes out the effect of the high-pressure exhaust pulses with less back pressure on the exhaust stream... by analogy to the earlier use of 'snubber' in connection with underdamped suspension arrangements like the main driver pairs on GG1 electrics.

Note that in the 'vital statistics' provided for the C-Liners when they were introduced, the word 'silencer' is used instead of muffler, and 'snubber' instead of resonator.  If I had to hazard a guess I'd say these are naval terms being carried over from the earlier use of the OP engines in marine operations.

SUBSCRIBER & MEMBER LOGIN

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

FREE NEWSLETTER SIGNUP

Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter