Central's Ulster and Delaware, possibly some West Shore

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Central's Ulster and Delaware, possibly some West Shore
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, November 9, 2017 4:04 AM

Fleishmans, NY, June 1948, ten-wheeler

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Posted by Miningman on Thursday, November 9, 2017 9:47 AM

Very pretty setting...hope it still retains that. 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, November 9, 2017 7:34 PM

I got curious and looked up Fleischmanns NY.  Way up in Delaware County, about half-way between Kingston and Oneonta, it has a population of 350 according to the 2010 census.

So I'd guess it doesn't look a heckuva lot different now than it did when those pictures were taken.  Which is good.  Some things shouldn't change too much.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, November 9, 2017 10:07 PM

The tracks are still there.  About 20 years ago I rode up to Fleishmans from Arkville on the D&U tourist train.  I think the train now only heads north of Arkville.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, November 13, 2017 2:08 AM

Returning from Fleishmans, at Kingston I boarded the train I photographed crossing the diamond with J-1 Hudson power:

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:34 AM

Before snapping the previous picture, took one of the train I rode from Flieishmans:

And one more view of the 4-6-0 of the Peddler freight at Flieshmans:

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, November 14, 2017 9:10 PM

Did you ever ride that U&D train down to the Hudson River landing, or take a boat back to NY ?

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 7:14 AM

By the time I rode, the train emptied at the N. Y. Central Sta. and moved east just for servicing.   Just one round-trip to Fleishmans, all rail.  (Plus ferryboats)

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 11:11 AM

daveklepper

By the time I rode, the train emptied at the N. Y. Central Sta. and moved east just for servicing.   Just one round-trip to Fleishmans, all rail.  (Plus ferryboats)

You mean further compass south (railroad east?) or was there actually something east of the station at Weehawken for locomotives not fitted with pontoons?  I suspect an aerial picture or map of the terminal layout might be highly valuable.  By the time I could first get there, it was 1974 and most things likely very different from passenger days on the West Shore.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 3:05 PM

From what I understand, the West Shore line, the J1 heading the train which I then rode to Hoboken, took the Central's ferryboat to 12th and 42nd, walked the four long blocs to the subway, and then rode north to 86th St., runs north and south, and in Kingston, the southbound U & D line is runing east and west, with the passenger train shown having crossed the diamond, presumably east to servicing facilities, with the north-south West Shore line somewhat inland at that point.  I assume there was a former terminal station right on the Hudson River for train-boat transfer.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 3:09 PM

Never mind. I thought you were talking about how the Hudson was serviced after the West Shore train terminated in Weehawken.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 9:40 PM

The U&D continued east of the Kingston station down a steep track with a couple of horseshoe curves to the yard at Rondout at river level.  The NY trolley museum has their smaller yard there now.  A track continued to Kingston Point where it met the boats.  On the left side of the linked map you can see the connections to the NYC (diamond has been removed).  At the time of this topo map, the line was retained to service the quarries along the Hudson.  If you change the map view to satellite, you can see the trolley museum yard, and some of the horseshoe track.  Much of the track in Kingston is paved over, if not abandoned.

http://www.mytopo.com/maps/?lat=41.9273&lon=-73.98104&z=15

 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, November 16, 2017 12:02 PM

I finally dug out my copy of Gerald Best's Ulster and Delaware.  The Rondout roundhouse and shops were closed shortly after NYC took over in 1932, and engines for the former U&D used the West Shore's Kingston roundhouse.

The track profile showes that the short steep drop from Kingston to Rondout river level was 3.93%, the steepest on the U&D.  The next steepest mainline grade was 3.2% on the WB climb up to Highmount/Grand Hotel station.  The steepest grade on the Hunter branch was 3.83%

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 6:24 AM

N-bound at Kingston

Some more scanned pbotos from the same 1948 trip on the West Shore and Ulster and Delaware.  These all taken from the rear vestibules of the West Shore trains.

I believe the next-to last photo shows WWII ships, mostly Liberty Ships,  stored, and the last a Havestraw local on a siding north of Havestraw.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 10:02 AM

Great shots David, especially the second-to-last showing a portion of the Hudson River Reserve Fleet.

I remember seeing those ships from Route 9W as a boy when we'd go up to Bear Mountain Park during the winter.  It was quite a sight to see, all those ships anchored in the river.  VERY impressive!

For those who don't know the story, here it is...

https://crotonhistory.org/2016/05/21/the-ghost-fleet-1946-1947/  

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 10:41 AM

Incredible. What a great historical accounting. 

Thanks Wayne. I never knew of this. 

... and David K....luv that picture of the local on the siding, 'in the weeds'... very emblematic of a fading era. 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 10:59 AM

Been gone nearly twice the length of time it was there ... puts teeth in the timeline.

I loved going to Bear Mountain as a small child ... but I was always looking for the bears.  And -- as usual -- by the time I was old enough to bicycle up to where I could have seen ships ... the last ones had been gone about two months.  You won't notice what you'd never known was there; something very true of trackage in Wilkes-Barre and suburban Philadelphia.

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 11:39 AM

That is mostly true. Sometimes however, despite zero knowledge of what 'was there' and blissfully unaware in a state of not noticing, some kind of spidey sense starts going off and then you do take notice and start to reconstruct in ones mind. It's amazing how many times this is accurate. 

Cannot explain it but its like that ' hey, wait a minute moment' when the Potemkin Village visage disappears and things are not as they appear and a left behind footprint somewhere reveals itself. 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, April 10, 2019 1:07 PM

You know, the Hudson River, both east and west shores, is one of the most amazing, scenic, and historic places here in the US.  One of the earliest settled areas by Europeans there's historic suprises everywhere you go.  

That "Spidey-sense" Vince mentions?  Don't laugh.  There's spots I've been to along the Hudson where I could almost swear I smelled Revolutionary gunpowder smoke!   Or maybe the river was at low tide and I was smelling the mud flats?  Wink

Overmod, I never saw any bears either, but do you remember that massive, awesome fireplace in the Bear Mountain Lodge?  And those links from the Revolutionary War Hudson River chain booms?  Made quite an impression on me as a boy.  Reading about the Revolution was one thing, actually touching a piece of it was something else!

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, April 11, 2019 5:40 AM

Thanks for the link to the ships' story and some good pictures!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, April 11, 2019 8:46 AM

You're welcome David!  High praise indeed coming from yourself!  

I do appreciate it!

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, October 5, 2019 8:26 PM

Dave, does this remind you anything?  Took this photo while on a Catskill ski trip last March.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/cTGdZjUijjrBv1Xd7

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, October 5, 2019 9:29 PM

That photo reminds me  of something, a line from the Johnny Cash song "Ride This Train..."

"I know a depot like a ghost beside the track..."

Is that trackage still active in any way?  And I'm really impressed by that antique switch stand, it must go back to the 19th Century.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, October 5, 2019 10:24 PM

Flintlock76
Is that trackage still active in any way?  And I'm really impressed by that antique switch stand, it must go back to the 19th Century.

I believe the track is owned by Delaware County.  The Delaware & Ulster (tourist) Railroad operates excursions out of Arkville west (compass north) to Roxbury.  They used to operate trains east to Fleischmanns, which I rode about 20 years ago.  Maybe they wanted to avoid the grade up to Fleischmanns.  That grade eventualy summits at Highmount and connects with the Ulster County trackage that the Catskill Mountail RR operates on.

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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, October 6, 2019 1:37 AM

Thanks.   Glad to know that the track and station at Fleishman's still exists.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, October 6, 2019 11:54 AM

Thanks Mike!  More cool historic surprises along the Hudson!

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, October 15, 2019 8:54 PM

A little Ulster & Delaware footage from years back...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jyAVrmnMwQ  

And a Catskill Mountains railroad montage...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eeLAGAMbi8  

Good stuff!

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