Firelock76 ... are those "cold-cast" N gauge stations still available, and if so do you know who sells them?
On the off chance someone reading the thread is also interested, I'll reply here and not via PM.
This was one of, I believe, four stations made by the Danbury Mint outfit. These originally had little 'trains' packaged with them, but mine was bought without -- no problem because I wanted an RS2/3 and Stillwell for proper memory.
One set of four stations, with their trains, recently sold at auction for $22, which I thought was something of a steal: proof that markets don't often close well for specialty interests.
daveklepperSome pix of Penn Central 27 and 28.
One of my favorite "grab shots". Westbound 27 at Collinwood (it still bypassed C.U.T.). I'm on a passenger extra, Cleveland to Niagara Falls, in a heavyweight 10 section-solarium lounge. Note the kerosene markers.
P-C_1000 by Edmund, on Flickr
Cheers! Ed
What equipment did 63 and 64 have?
If my memory is correct, PC 63-64 was also a New York-Chicago run, mostly to handle what mail was still being carried.
Some pix of Penn Central 27 and 28. One thing PC did that was a surprise was restoring sectioni sleeper accomodations between NY and Chi using an ex-New Haven sleeper on each train.
The end of the Century was also the end for other Central named trains, includiing the Southwestern Limited and the New England States. More frequent or at least more regular and more dependable Buffalo - New York "Empire Service" was supposed to compensate, running trains where the market was.
The remaining long distance marekt was consolidated into one train between Albany and Buffalo, coming from both New York City and Boston, and which took the numbers of the New England States, 27 and 28, but not the name. we nicknamed it "The Steel Fleet." West of Buffalo its cars ran as 27 and 28 to and from Chicago via Cleveland, also via Detroit, and to Toronto, Cincinnati and St. Louis.
Hope to post some 1970 pictures taken betwen Gary and Elkhart soon.
Hey Overmod, are those "cold-cast" N gauge stations still available, and if so Do you know who sells them. I don't do N gauge anymore, I'm back to O and lovin' it, but an N gauge Tenafly station would be fun to have.
I DID see a custom-built model of the Tenafly station in O scale at a train show several years back, but no way could I afford the $1,000 price the guy wanted for it! Never saw it again at any other show, so I suppose someone bought it.
Firelock76You know, my father wanted to buy the Tenafly station when commuter service stopped there in 1966 and the station closed.
That's interesting. Of course the station looked very different then than it does in the pictures.
All the while I was growing up (we moved to 81 Joyce Rd. when I was 2 1/2, between 1958 and 1959) the station had very deep outside valances in dark wood. Those were removed when the station was given an extensive historic restoration, making it look radically different. I think some of the outside beams were subsequently added back, but it's still much more 'upright' and 1830-ish than the way I remember it with 'Day of the Dead' paint-scheme RS units and Stilwells in front.
Interestingly there was a series of historic 'cold cast' station models in roughly N scale (at least that was the approximate gauge of the molded track in front) that included this station. I was lucky enough to find one down here and parked my N-scale EL RS3 in front on my desk for a shot of on-demand nostalgia...
Great stuff Wanswheel. Speechless
As to the New York Times Article.....pretty thin, that's it?
The Twentieth Century Gets Through by E. B. White
The Twentieth Century Limited, first time it has reached city this winter covered with icicles. It forged its way through the blizzards upstate and in the west. Mae Murray is pictured standing beside the train. — Caption of photograph in The World
The snow blew strong through the long, long night,
And settled on objects left and right,
But the Twentieth Century ploughed on through,
As a limited train is supposed to do,
With Buffalo, Syracuse, Canastota,
Beneath more snow than their usual quota,
And a hey nonny nonny.
From the chilly blast and the raging gale,
The Century gathered a coat of mail,
And through the blizzard it plunged and reared
With ice for whiskers, snow for a beard,
Through miles of sleet and hours of snowing,
There was one bright thought that kept it going:
“If I get to New York in great big hurry
They'll take my picture with sweet Mae Murray,
With a hey nonny nonny,
And a mae murray murray."
That was the trend of the Century's thought,
As on through the fearful night it fought:
"I couldn't keep on through the Mohawk Valley
For Lillian Gish or Marion Talley,
But a blizzard to me is the veriest flurry,
If it leads to a photo with Mistress Murray,
With a mae murray murray."
So the Century train, with a sob and a shiver,
Continued its course down the Hudson River,
And weary from battling in storm and stress,
Pulled in and was met by the daily press,
And there, sure enough, looking warm and furry,
Was the dear little figure of Mistress Murray
Who, laying a hand on the Century's ice,
Appeared in all papers in less than a trice.
With a mae murray murray.
Now here is a thing that I'm anxious to know,
In the matter of pictures of ice and snow:
Assuming that turnabout is fair play,
Would photographs work in the opposite way?
Suppose Mae Murray came out of the West
With snow in her hair and ice on her chest,
With frost on her eyelid, sleet on her nose,
Could she make the Twentieth Century pose?
Would they take a picture of just those two,
Miss Murray's face all chapped and blue?
With the caption: "Girl Comes Grimly Through"?
Would the New York Central be quick to send
The cream of its trains to the side of a friend
Arriving in town all cold and shaken
And ready to have her picture taken?
With a hey nonny nonny?
And unless they would, which I gravely doubt,
Why, what are these pictures all about?
With a mae murray murray?
NY Times article, Dec. 3, 1967, The 20th Century Makes Final Run
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9504E7DF1F30E23BBC4B53DFB467838C679EDE
Oh yeah, isn't that Tenafly station absolutely gorgeous?
The Wiki article left out something interesting. Back when the station was built in 1872 the Erie planned a serviceable, but somewhat plain station. Well, Tenafly being an up-and-coming town with quite a few well-heeled New York City commuters living there wanted something a LOT more stately, so, most of the cost of the station was covered by the town itself! Only the best would do.
The ironic thing now is the current residents of Tenafly, most of them anyway, want absolutely nothing to do with commuter rail, so if and when that proposed Northern Branch light rail line gets built it'll terminate at Englewood, the next town south.
Ironic, since Tenafly is a literally a child of the railroad.
For everyone who's wondering what we're talking about, here's the link...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenafly_(Erie_Railroad_station)
While you're on it, click on the "Demarest" link for another spectacular 1872 station. Demarest is the next town north.
You know, my father wanted to buy the Tenafly station when commuter service stopped there in 1966 and the station closed. He wanted to start his own business on the premises, a liquor store! No sure-fire money maker in New Jersey like a liquor store! But, it never happened.
Oh, on train operations during World War Two there was a fine, fine book published in 1977 called "Decade Of The Trains, the 1940's." It's a collaboration of Don Ball Jr. and Rogers E.M. Whittaker, Ball doing the photo compilations and Whittaker doing the prose. Whittaker served in the Office of Defense Transportation during the war, and his writing is wonderful, really tells the story of what was involved, although for brevity's sake it just scratches the surface.
Out of print now, I found a copy at a train show. If you see one, grab it! You won't be sorry!
Ahhh-ha, OK thank you, I see what you mean.
From "Thoroughly Modern Millie"
Everything today is thoroughly modern
Everything today makes yesterday slow
PS--that railroad station in Tenafly,NJ is thoroughly outstanding
Miningman, I suppose what was meant was as soon as the Century reached Chicago it was all over, so being nine hours late meant the train avoided oblivion for those same nine hours. Whether it was also meant that by some black magic the spirit of the Century caused those delaying wrecks is anyone's guess.
Or maybe it was the angry hand of Lucius Beebe, or maybe George Daniels, reaching from the "Great Beyond?"
Cue the "Twilight Zone" theme right now!
And certainly the Century wasn't what it was, but it was still the Century!
Oh well, Sic Transit Gloria Mundi, as the saying goes.
Firelock-- " 20th Century Limited fans said the old girl died, but she sure didn't go easy."
Not sure what you mean by this?
My understanding is that the Century had gone downhill somewhat. It had already been carrying coaches for some time. Stories of plugged toilets and all that. No red carpet, gone. Things like that. You cannot really blame New York Central for pulling the plug. Yes I remember the 9 hour or so delay being reported in Trains. Back in the day they would have routed it over the CASO but by then that track had gone downhill considerably along that line with severe speed restrictions in spots and perhaps the Century was not in a location at the time that made it reasonable to do so.
It is also a bit puzzling to me as to why a service like that could not attract a few hundred people each day from a hundred million people. Dedicated civilized folk who would way rather prefer superior service to air travel. It seems to makes sense enough, but it didn't happen. I do not think this was a marketing failure as much as it was viewed as a relic by the general public. Still you would think there were enough Dave Kleppers around to make it worthwhile. This seems to be something we see all over North America, again and again. Then we regret it.
It would not have survived Penn Central anyway. The New York Central itself was on a fast track, unbelievably, to extinction,
Also I believe the Central did not make a big deal of it's last run and it quietly disappeared. It must have been posted in the cars ahead of time for a while. Was there a contingent of buffs and traditionalists riding the last one?
It was a small group from what I recall, or am I mistaken?
erikem Saw an item in today's paper about the last run of the Century was 50 years ago today.
Saw an item in today's paper about the last run of the Century was 50 years ago today.
Quite true, and if I remember correctly the Century was nine hours late getting into Chicago due to some freight wrecks.
20th Century Limited fans said the old girl died, but she sure didn't go easy.
It's a good thing Lucius Beebe didn't live to see it. "E.M. Frimbo" did, and he sure wasn't happy about it!
DeggestyI have to confess that I have not thought of the VRE at all when counting passenger trains betwen Washington and AF; perhaps because I have not considered riding VRE?
You can't Dispatch the territory without considering VRE. VRE probably has more political clout than Amtrak (quite a number of Congressional aides use VRE for their daily commute and they are vocal). Any number of CSX Officials who thought they could screw VRE with no consequence found out otherwise - and this was well above the Division level.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I have to confess that I have not thought of the VRE at all when counting passenger trains betwen Washington and AF; perhaps because I have not considered riding VRE?
Johnny
DeggestyCurrently, there are two daily and one tri-weekly passenger trains each way between Washington and AF that use the former Southern track below AF.
In today's world you are overlooking VRE that runs to both Manassas and Fredericksburg on Monday-Friday rush hours basis.
As to passenger trains on the RF&P in WW II, in 1943, there were 20 each way (19 on Sundays) between AF and Richmond--9 to the SAL and 11 to Broad Street, plus, except on Sundays, one up from Fredericksburg in the morning and one down to Fredericksburg in the afternoon. The Southern had eleven passenger trains (+ a mail train?) and the C&O had 3 passenger trains each way between Washington and AF.
Currently, there are two daily and one tri-weekly passenger trains each way between Washington and AF that use the former Southern track below AF.
1960 B&O St. Louis Divison Timetable a little before my time. however, I still recognize a number of the Officers and Dispatchers that were there when I was working on the division from June 1965 to June 1967 when I transfered to the Pittsburgh Division.
http://www.cincyrails.com/files/B+OStLouisDiv75-4-24-1960.pdf
Note in the Schedules - the On Time meeting points are listed in the times of the trains involved.
Since radios weren't used yet. The Timetable has a listing of all the wayside telephone booths and who is connected to the individual booths. A further 'Unclassified' Special Instruction specifies the handling of fatalities enroute.
Nowadays the line has be severed between Noble, Il and Caseyville, IL. Track is still in place but is not being used.
Wow...great answer! thanks for that Balt.
It had to have been hectic and harrowing at times.
Think I'll stick with teaching unless I can get a lonely outpost on a Rock Island or Milwaukee branch.
Tremendous responsibilites, the air traffic controllers of their day, still is, but more automated and all digital.
Balt, you could add superiority of direction (for single track operation).
Generally, passenger trains were all first class and freight trains were second or lower class (an ACL ETT I have has only first and third class trains shown). In the late fifties or early sixties the Southern began running some freights as first class trains. Extras were inferior to everything else unless a train order directed otherwise.
Now, with CTC, the distinctions are no longer necessary, so far as I know.
MiningmanSo how does this translate into 105 or more trains during WWII? They did not have a board like that did they? So Balt ACD, if you were the dispatcher during the war how would things differ? What are you looking at while at your post?
Most railroads of the WW II era, where they had multiple Main Tracks were operated with Current of Traffic signally - trains moving with the current of traffic moved on signal indication; trains moving against the current of traffic moved on Train Orders and potentially some form of manual block system. The PRR & NYC had a number of miles of 4 Main tracks.
My carrier, the B&O, where it had double track territory also had directional passing sidings (the C&O tended to use center passing sidings). The passing sidings, in the absence of CTC, allowed the Dispatcher to direct the Operators to put slower trains into the sidings and allow faster trains by without the need to put the slower train on the 'opposite' track and operate under non signalled rules. Needless to say the Operator would OS the passage of trains to the Dispatcher who would write the OS on the Train Sheet - the Train Sheet contained all the appropriate information concerning the traind - Schedule Number or Extra, Engineer & Conductor Names, Locomotive Numbers, Loads, Empties & Tonnage and any other special information that may concern the train. The only thing the pre-CTC Dispatcher had to 'look at' was either his 20 cycle telephone selector and mouthpiece and speaker for the telephone and maybe a telegraph key (the TD may have his own personal telegraph 'bug' and the Train Sheet and Train Order book. Needless to say this was all analog equipment.
During the War years, I suspect many a Train Order was sent by telegraph rather than telephone. Train Orders would be written in the Train Order book as they were being transmitted (by either telegraph or telephone) and they would also be copied by the Operators at the locations designated by the Dispatcher for delivery to the trains addressed. The Orders would then be repeated by each of the Operators over the appropriate means of communication with the Dispatcher underlining each word and figure as it was repeated. Upon successful repeating by all parties addressed the Dispatcher would issue a 'Complete with the current time and his initials. The Operator would the inscribe that information on the Train Order. The B&O used a 'Clearance Form A' for multiple purposes, conveying a index of orders addressed to trains, conveying Manual Block status and a number of other operational issues. When train would 'hit the bell', the Operator would announce that fact to the Train Dispatcher - the Train Dispatcher would then issues instructions to the Operator (Hold the train, line a route for the train, copy a train order for the train) If the Operator was holding train orders for the specific train, he would complete the Clearance Form A writing in the train identity including engine number, numbers of each and every Train Order being delivered, a numerical accounting of the number of 'messages' that were also being delivered (a message could specify virtually anything that the train was supposed to do - set out a engine, pick up cars at a specified point and 1001 other things that may need to be done).
CTC representitive of the 1940's & 50's
Single track territories were operated on Timetable and Train Orders - high volume single track lines would be supplemented with Absolute Block Signalling. The signals only coveyed the condition of the track ahead, NOT AUTHORITY to operate past the signal - that authority had to be conveyed by Timetable Schedule and/or Train Order authority. The movement of trains TT&TO territory was far from 'straight forward' as many Dispatchers used TIME as the major factor in allowing the movment of 'inferior' trains. On the territory I worked, there were Schedules for 1st Class, 2nd Class, 3rd Class trains, Extra trains were authorized when necessary. Needless to say there could also be Sections of the Scheduled Trains and the appropriate Class Lights would be displayed when necessary. Westbound Trains were inferior to Eastbound Trains. The Schedules were published in the Timetable. The Trains Dispatcher would 'adjust' the schedule times by means of 'Wait Orders' as necessary to allow for the meeting of trains without specifically directing the inferior train where to meet the superior train - a specific Meet order would delay the superior train if the inferior train had trouble and couldn't make the specified point at the 'scheduled' time. Designated Meet orders were normally only used to meet passenger trains as they had much fewer line of road mechanical issues than freight trains.
This is all from memory from actions from 50+ years ago.
This was CSX Operation Center circa 1990 as well as UP's Harriman Center
In the 21st Century this is more representative of Dispatching Centers
Not knowing the local situation in detail, but generally railroads were able to handle the traffic despite lack of some modern dispatching aids because of vastly greater manpower. At CTC control centers, there were more dispatchers with each controlling a smaller territoty than today, there were tower opeators, etc.
So how does this translate into 105 or more trains during WWII? They did not have a board like that did they? So Balt ACD, if you were the dispatcher during the war how would things differ? What are you looking at while at your post?
On a personal note the Lobster Newburg was successful ( I think)...followed the original recipe as close as possible.. I'll tell ya I used a lot of pots and pans and made one heck of mess so I would not be worthy of those fellas on the Century. Some kinda tasty however.
Made the also tricky yet somewhat simple Celery Bread as an accompaniment a-la the Erie Beach Hotel in Port Dover perfected to perfect perfection.
Next time won't be so messy.
DeggestyNon-scheduled trains (including all freights) ran extra without orders between Richmond and RO. Passenger train speed limit was 70 mph; freights were limited to 50 mph. How many freights does CSX run between Washington and Acca? I count ten Amtrak passenger trains a day each way between AF and Acca. I have the impression that it is now full CTC between RO and AY. (The two times that I have taken a train from Fredericksburg to Washington, it arrived on track 3 and not track 2--where prospective passengers were waiting. In 1953, track 2 was NB only and track 3 was SB only.
How many freights does CSX run between Washington and Acca? I count ten Amtrak passenger trains a day each way between AF and Acca.
I have the impression that it is now full CTC between RO and AY. (The two times that I have taken a train from Fredericksburg to Washington, it arrived on track 3 and not track 2--where prospective passengers were waiting. In 1953, track 2 was NB only and track 3 was SB only.
RF&P is all CTC from CP Virginia (and actually from the former CR Anacostia Tower and through the Virginia Ave Tunnel(s)) to AY. Points North of Greendale are controlled by a Baltimore Division Dispatcher, Greendale and points South are controlled by a Florence Division Dispatcher. In addition to the Amtrak trains, there are 7 VRE's each direction between CP Virginia and CP Crossroads. There are an addition 8 VRE's each direction between CP Virginia and CP AF. Don't overlook the Amtrak's that operate between CP Virginia and CP AF. Because of station restrictions, as a practical matter, VRE's in both directions must operate on #2 track between Crossroads and AF.
The above CADS screens are the RF&P from CP M Street to CP Crossroads.
When I retired, there were 3 manifests in each direction between Richmond and Philadelphia, there were an additional 2 mainfests in each direction between Richmond and Brunswick. In peak season there are two intermodals in each direction between Philadelphia/Baltimore and Richmond. There are two intermodals in each direction between Portsmouth through Richmond to Brunswick. Normal freight train size is between 10 and 13K feet.
In 1953, the Washington-Richmond passenger traffic was still heavy--30 trains each way between Washington and AF tower, and 16 each way between AF and AY (just below Acca); 7 of these went to the SAL and the rest went to Broad Street.
I have no idea as to what improvements had been made since the War, but the majority of the track was two-track (tracks 2 & 3), with short stretches of three-track (track 1 or track 4), and two short stretches of four-track. Depending upon the location, a given track had a fixed direction or was operated in either direction. Interlockings were controlled by operators at RO (north end of the RF&P), AF, Fredericksburg, Doswell, AY, Broad Street, or by the dispatcher in Richmond.
Non-scheduled trains (including all freights) ran extra without orders between Richmond and RO. Passenger train speed limit was 70 mph; freights were limited to 50 mph.
(edited to put all of line 1 on one line--jd)
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