Trains and Saloons..thats were I am living! Guess it explains a lot of why my economic circumstances are not what they should be.
Another take on "the wrong side of the tracks"...
In the midwest / west, railroads that were given land grants for construction were often alloted alternating one-mile squares of land. So for one mile, the railroad would own the land on the right side of the track, for the next mile, they'd own the land on the other side. Cutting down any timber on their land, and/or selling their free land was designed to help pay for the rail line's construction.
When railroads decided to build say a division point yard / roundhouse etc., they would build it on the land they already owned via the land grant, so let's say the north side of an east-west rail line. Houses, stores, schools etc. would then generally gravitate towards the south side of the track, since people didn't want to live right next to the railroad's smoke and noise.
Any 'leftover' land the railroad didn't need on their side of the line wasn't very desirable, so would sell rather cheaply. This meant it was often sold to poorer folks, like newer immigrants, or to people wanting to build saloons or other 'establishments' that could service the needs of the railroad workers.
Hence the railroad side would become the 'wrong side of the tracks', an area where people wouldn't want to live if they could help it.
The situation around 130th and Torrence was most interesting. Immediately east of Torrence was a grade crossing of the CWI over 130th Street. The traffic lights at the intersection were synchronized with this grade crossing. The CWI line was taken up in the late 1980's. The ex-NKP main ran at a diagonal and crossed both 130th and Torrence at separate grade crossings about block from the intersection. The lead into the Ford plant came off of this line and switching moves frequently tied up 130th Street and occasionally Torrence Ave.
The South Shore overpass was about a block south of 130th Street and was a rather conventional steel girder bridge-trestle mix. I was surprised that it was replaced by a truss bridge rather than a similar bridge-trestle.
You r right. I drove to hegewisch the other day and discovered the 130th street street grade crossing is gone replaced by a large bridge/underpass. And they relocated and redid the South Shore bridge too.
redrye here is a link to a facebook site - a railfan found the remains of the PRR station under the Skyway. Amazing.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/southchicagoraceway/
Since we're discussing the South Side, my old neighborhood had an interesting geographic quirk. Up until fairly recently, it was physically impossible to get in or out of Hegewisch without going over a grade crossing. It helps that even now, the neighborhood is separated from the rest of Chicago by industrial development and undeveloped land.
BLS53 BaltACD BLS53 CSSHEGEWISCH Neighborhood divisions in Chicago in Chicago were surprisingly sharp since the railroad embankments doubled as dividing walls in many instances. Track elevation ordinances were an early method of eliminating grade crossings and were enacted in the period prior to WW1. In the older parts of the city, the tracks and often entire yards and other facilities were elevated about twenty feet with underpasses provided for through streets. I think that's true in many cities, and smaller towns for that matter. Hence the phrase; "The other side of the tracks". The 'wrong' side of the tracks was the downwind side. The smoke from all the steam engines blew downwind. So that is how "good sides" and "bad sides" developed? By which way the steam blew? Then there must be a bunch of towns where the wind never shifted.
BaltACD BLS53 CSSHEGEWISCH Neighborhood divisions in Chicago in Chicago were surprisingly sharp since the railroad embankments doubled as dividing walls in many instances. Track elevation ordinances were an early method of eliminating grade crossings and were enacted in the period prior to WW1. In the older parts of the city, the tracks and often entire yards and other facilities were elevated about twenty feet with underpasses provided for through streets. I think that's true in many cities, and smaller towns for that matter. Hence the phrase; "The other side of the tracks". The 'wrong' side of the tracks was the downwind side. The smoke from all the steam engines blew downwind.
BLS53 CSSHEGEWISCH Neighborhood divisions in Chicago in Chicago were surprisingly sharp since the railroad embankments doubled as dividing walls in many instances. Track elevation ordinances were an early method of eliminating grade crossings and were enacted in the period prior to WW1. In the older parts of the city, the tracks and often entire yards and other facilities were elevated about twenty feet with underpasses provided for through streets. I think that's true in many cities, and smaller towns for that matter. Hence the phrase; "The other side of the tracks".
CSSHEGEWISCH Neighborhood divisions in Chicago in Chicago were surprisingly sharp since the railroad embankments doubled as dividing walls in many instances. Track elevation ordinances were an early method of eliminating grade crossings and were enacted in the period prior to WW1. In the older parts of the city, the tracks and often entire yards and other facilities were elevated about twenty feet with underpasses provided for through streets.
Neighborhood divisions in Chicago in Chicago were surprisingly sharp since the railroad embankments doubled as dividing walls in many instances. Track elevation ordinances were an early method of eliminating grade crossings and were enacted in the period prior to WW1. In the older parts of the city, the tracks and often entire yards and other facilities were elevated about twenty feet with underpasses provided for through streets.
I think that's true in many cities, and smaller towns for that matter. Hence the phrase; "The other side of the tracks".
The 'wrong' side of the tracks was the downwind side. The smoke from all the steam engines blew downwind.
So that is how "good sides" and "bad sides" developed? By which way the steam blew? Then there must be a bunch of towns where the wind never shifted.
Every area has its own 'prevailing wind pattern'; that doesn't mean that the wind always blows from that direction - different weather fronts do cause the direction of the wind to change, however, each area has its own normal weather pattern and the prevailing wind is a function of the normal weather pattern.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
bill613a Speaking of the southside of Chicago is there a direct bus or rail line from the Union Station area to the White Sox's ballpark?
Speaking of the southside of Chicago is there a direct bus or rail line from the Union Station area to the White Sox's ballpark?
Alton Junction
wjstixAlso, Chicago historically was divided not just by race but ethnicity into neighborhoods. Kind of a running gag here in the Twin Cities is talking about the first time you meet someone from Chicago. They always ask "what kinda neighborhood are you from?" to which the Minnesotan says "um...a nice neighborhood?" "Ya, but what KIND of neighborhood?" They want you to say Irish or Jewish or Italian or whatever. Apparently hard for them to picture people living mixed up all higgledy-piggeldy.
Calgary may have seemed to be divided the same way, but it was more due to certain ethnic groups having certain skills, which corresponded to when particular employers arrived here. Certain neighbourhoods came about as the result of an influx of employees needed in the Oil & Gas business.
To stay on topic, Sunnyside was anecdotaly reported to be a neighbourhood built by CPR employees. This came to be considered more of a fact after an incident there in the 1990's.
To set the stage, in the early 1900's RR's used wood liners or "Grain Doors" to cover the openings of the sliding side doors on boxcars. Homeowners in Sunnyside were doing an interior renovation of their home and pulled off the interior walls. Between the studs on the exterior walls they could see that the builder had made the walls out of Grain Doors that were clearly labeled as "Property of the Canadian Pacific Railway". At that point there wasn't much reason to give them back.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
And the south side was predominantly Catholic. People would always ask, "What parish are you from"?
Rich
A couple of Chicago observations (from an outsider)....
Chicago almost developed like two cities, with industries and it's workers living south of downtown, and more affluent middle class folks living to the north. The northside also was settled by more British / German / Northern European and Protestant, the south more immigrant / Irish / Italian and Catholic. It may be why White Sox fans on the southside are more blue collar, hardcore baseball fans, while Cubs fans on the northside are more into the "ambiance" of Wrigleyville??
Also, Chicago historically was divided not just by race but ethnicity into neighborhoods. Kind of a running gag here in the Twin Cities is talking about the first time you meet someone from Chicago. They always ask "what kinda neighborhood are you from?" to which the Minnesotan says "um...a nice neighborhood?" "Ya, but what KIND of neighborhood?" They want you to say Irish or Jewish or Italian or whatever.
Apparently hard for them to picture people living mixed up all higgledy-piggeldy.
CSSHEGEWISCH GTW had its own 63rd Street station called Chicago Lawn. It was located at 3600 W 63rd St., about halfway between Kedzie and Pulaski.
GTW had its own 63rd Street station called Chicago Lawn. It was located at 3600 W 63rd St., about halfway between Kedzie and Pulaski.
NYC listed station locations at South Chicago and East Side. Based on timetable mileages South Chicago must have been somewhere around 92nd and South Chicago, not far from the end of IC's South Chicago branch. PRR listed a station at State Line, about 106th and Indianapolis.
The B&O South Chicago station was located at Commercial Avenue just north of 95th Street. Not too far away, either NYC or PRR (I can't remember which) had a platform in East Side at Ewing Avenue just north of 100th Street.
The B&O passenger line west of Pullman Junction still exists as far west as the former Beverly crossing. Chicago Rail Link operates it as far as Gresham (89th and Vincennes), where the Metra RI District main line and suburban lines diverge. In B&O/RI days there was no wye as exists now, but a crossing with connecting tracks in the SE and NW quadrants. B&O trains went west on the RI Suburban line to 89th and Ashland, turning north there, crossing and paralleling the PRR Panhandle line on what's now the Major Taylor Trail, joining the B&OCT line from Barr Yard at 81st between Damen and Western. Both the Panhandle and B&O passenger lines were abandoned.
there was also a B+O station in South Chicago. it was on the RI tracks east of Pullman Jct. along what appears to be 94th/95 th streets. B+O had trackage rights on this line to move their passenger trains into Indiana via RI Junction and the Calumet River bridge.
my son goes to school at u of C in Hyde Park - he says there is a security guard on each corner and never hears of any trouble.
BTW the Jim Croce song's name was "Bad Bad Leroy Brown". One odd trivia fact is the introduction to the song. When they were working on this song, Jim was in the studio at the piano and started playing "Queen of the Hop", a 1959 hit for Bobby Darin. Someone suggested they use that song's intro as the intro to "Bad Bad Leroy Brown", so they did. If you listen to the two songs, they're basically identical for the first 12 bars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIZ8X2uS5CU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwPRm5UMe1A
...and yes, I did stay up past midnight in 1973 to see Jim Croce play this!
Miningman Wow. Thanks BaltACD. That is some happening Railroad place. Was worried it was now a Pizza Hut or something.
Wow. Thanks BaltACD. That is some happening Railroad place.
Was worried it was now a Pizza Hut or something.
Yep, that map says it all.
Grand Central Station, in downtown Chicago at Harrison and Wells, was closed in 1969 and then demolished in 1971. With no more station and no more passenger trains, the station at 63rd Street was shuttered and later demolished.
Miningman Riichhotrain- Nice description. Puts things in perspective. Sad to hear the NYC tracks are gone into La Salle and at Englewood. How on earth do these things happen. Yes, yes, I know, but it seems like a tragic loss and banished as a footnote in history. Something wrong about that, that's all I'm saying. One last question. The B&O station at 2200 West 63rd St? Gone or used for commuters? I'm guessing gone.
Riichhotrain- Nice description. Puts things in perspective.
Sad to hear the NYC tracks are gone into La Salle and at Englewood.
How on earth do these things happen. Yes, yes, I know, but it seems like a tragic loss and banished as a footnote in history. Something wrong about that, that's all I'm saying.
One last question. The B&O station at 2200 West 63rd St? Gone or used for commuters? I'm guessing gone.
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