Video of Texas & Pacific (not engine 610)???

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Video of Texas & Pacific (not engine 610)???
Posted by PRR8259 on Thursday, December 01, 2016 11:16 AM

I was wondering if anybody out there has or is aware of any video footage of Texas & Pacific steam running back in the day (not Freedom Train engine 610 which ran during the 1970's)?

Some people are trying to tell me there is nothing out there, but I thought perhaps other folks on these forums would know of something?

Thanks--

John

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, December 01, 2016 6:46 PM

There's got to be something.  I'd start by hitting the websites of the various rail video producers and see what they've got. Considering all that's available I'd be shocked there's nothing on the T&P.

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Posted by PRR8259 on Saturday, December 10, 2016 9:24 PM

I already have searched quite a bit or I would not be posting this topic here at all.

Several video dealers have already told me there is nothing at all of T&P steam excepting limited fan trip footage of 610 during the 1970's.

I was somehow hoping against hope that they were wrong and perhaps a few clips existed that some of the steam experts on here would know about.

John

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Posted by Firelock76 on Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:08 AM

That's too bad, I suppose nothing's surfaced yet or there just weren't any railfans in the T&P area years ago with movie cameras.  They were quite expensive after all, a good Kodak movie camera cost as much as a week's pay in those days.

Herron Video's "Steam Glory 1" has a runby of a T&P steamer, a branchline 4-6-0, but it's short, just a matter of a few seconds.  At least I think it's a T&P steamer, could have been a Katy unit now that I think about it.

It's surprising (or maybe not) that some railroads and areas get more attention than others.  I'm from Northern New Jersey, and I'm surprised the Eries Northern Branch didn't get much attention from railfan photographers. In it's heyday it was quite a busy 'road with commuter and freight traffic and it ran through some interesting small towns and scenery.  The Northern Branch didn't get any video producer's attention until the early 2000's, long after it's glory days were over.  C'est la vie.

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Posted by txhighballer on Sunday, December 11, 2016 9:34 PM

The only footage I have seen of any T&P steam locomotive was 610 on the Southern and on the Freedom Train. There is footage of T&P 316 on Texas State Railroad, but that's about all I know.

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Monday, December 26, 2016 10:55 AM

I'm not aware of any films on T&P steam either.  There doesn't appear to be many photos of T&P #638 either that was on display in Dallas at Fair Park until the idiots scrapped her after having been "vandelized" (?) ....

Remaining with T&P.  I registered on the Route of the Eagles Forum in 2013 (visit www.texaspacificrailway.org) and can't restore my password.  When I attempt they send a message that a new one has been sent to my e-mail address.  Nothing shows up at all, and before anyone asks, yes, the e-mail address I submit is current and valid!

Their site is one of the most complicated ones I have encountered thus far and there is no way that I have found to contact them.  Is it run by humans or robots?  As a matter of fact, I don't even see anyway at this time for anyone to register as a new member.  Is this stupidety on my part or what?

I appreciate any HELP! from y'all and this is probably the best place to obtain information regarding T&P film footage as well, assuming "someone" will respond at all?

 

 

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Posted by Firelock76 on Monday, December 26, 2016 1:49 PM

I just tried that T&P website and it does seem slow and awkward.  Looks like the last Forum posts on it are three years old.  Maybe their Forum isn't active anymore?

Unfortunately that's the problem with a lot of fan-run websites, they're run by well-meaning amateurs who maybe aren't quite as computer-savvy as they should be.  At least they're trying.

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Posted by PRR8259 on Monday, December 26, 2016 8:36 PM

I am new to being interested in T&P after acquiring 2 ho brass steamers which are neat and very accurate models, so I had not yet attempted to join the website in question.

John

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Tuesday, December 27, 2016 5:11 AM

I'm retired.  I was tired yesterday and am tired again today!  I also have plenty of time on my hands or is it the hands on my clock....OK, let's leave it at that....

These two sites can be found at www.railserve.com under Railroad History & Preservation-Central (region of US)....

Texas & Pacific (this is the railfan site).  It shows a copyright date of 2016 so must be still active though doesn't appear to be updated.  It is very complicated to navigate!

Texas & Pacific Railway Memories.  This is run by one Dusty Garison and officially is Memories of the T&P.  I tried to send him an e-mail but it isn't currently working.  I couldn't bring up the Guestbook to sign either. 

Dusty is involved with the Abilene Society of Model Railroaders.  The last update is dated April 9, 2010, however, their Official Newsletter, Keeping Track, is dated July 1, 2016!  Dusty is mentioned so he is apparently still alive and well as of the release date of the newsletter.

In view of the above and the quest to locate any film material on the T&P the best source will be to contact the Missouri Pacific Historical Society.  They don't only cover MP proper but all railroads that became part of the system including T&P!  Their website is: www.mopac.org

I tried to register on their forum but can't find anyway to currently sign up.  Under FAQ it mentions that the forum might currently be disabled for new members to join. 

I am going to contact the society and perhaps those of you interested in the T&P should do the same.  If there is anything T&P on video they probably know where it can be located.

PRR8259: Does the # 8259 belong to the Pennsy H10 class 2-8-0?  I see that Broadway Limited offers it in HO scale.  "Everybody has a favorite railroad, the Pennsylvania, and another one...."  In my case, Pennsy's Post-WWII streamliner: Penn Texas!:)

 

 

 

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Posted by PRR8259 on Tuesday, December 27, 2016 9:50 PM

Hello again.

Yes at the time I signed up on here (earlier account no good, cannot access) I was interested in PRR and yes had that BLI engine.  

But though I live in the heart of Pennsy country about one mile from west end of  the Rockville Bridge, I have always been drawn to the Southwest.  I like Santa Fe but in steam prefer T&P.  When years ago I worked for Bowser during college, they always made fun of the local Santa Fe nut, but did paint a Bowser L1 Mikado for me.  Santa Fe had 3 of them for a few years.

I did not join the MP hysterical site yet for a few reasons...not all my past experiences with hysterical societies were positive, and imo they do not always have all the best information...

Sigh.  Perhaps the MP one would be better, but why would I join if the forum is closed?  That's no fun and sounds ridiculous.

John

P.S.  For example why would I write an article for free for the sfrhms when Diesel Era will pay nicely enough for the article to make the hours of research almost worth my while?  My time is valuable and I don't work for free.  Therefore Diesel Era tends to receive better articles and or beats the hysterical society to print, as others like to work with the magazine.

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Posted by RME on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 9:09 AM

Trinity River Bottoms Boomer
I tried to register on their forum but can't find anyway to currently sign up. Under FAQ it mentions that the forum might currently be disabled for new members to join.

They had the following note:

--New Feature--

The MPHS sponsored forum for Missouri Pacific and related topics is now live. Registering on the main site will automatically register you on the forum. This method will allow you to access both sites with just one username and password. If you have been registered at mopac.org, but have not logged in recently, please log in to the main site before proceeding to the forum. This action will automatically add you to the forum membership roster.


 

I don't know whether 'registering on the main site' is supposed to be, exactly, or if "joining" for $50 is part of the process for 'registering' on the phpBB system they use.  I do know that the listed address for their 'webmaster' is

webmaster@mopac.org

although I'm not sure how actively they are maintaining the site code now.  (Note that there are no forums on the bulletin board in their sidebar menu, which leads me to think they changed Forum platforms but didn't update the navigation.)

 

 

 

 

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Posted by RME on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 9:14 AM

PRR8259
I like Santa Fe but in steam prefer T&P.

Then you know ... or probably know how to find ... more information on the proposed T&P duplex 4-4-4-4 that Trains tantalizingly published the elevation drawing of, back in the mid-Seventies.

(In my opinion, hands-down the ugliest 1930s-style streamlining design ever proposed for an American locomotive, but that's beside the point...)

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Posted by PRR8259 on Thursday, December 29, 2016 4:10 PM

Actually had not heard of that before.

Are you sure it wasn't an April Fools prank????

Because I don't know of anyone crazier than the PRR who would have drafted up or actually constructed such a concept.

John

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Posted by Firelock76 on Thursday, December 29, 2016 7:54 PM

Actually, the B&O tried the duplex concept long before the PRR did, but gave up on it.  They just couldn't get the bugs out of it.

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Thursday, January 26, 2017 5:36 AM

I am interested in obtaining photographs and slides of T&P #638.  This is the 2-10-4 that T&P donated to Fair Park in Dallas where the annual State Fair of Texas is held in early autumn.  I am aware that finding any additional visual material other than the token few posted on the www.texaspacificrailway.org site will be next to impossible to obtain, I'll gladly accept anything showing her on display at the fair grounds.

A crime that she was scrapped.  By the time the Age of Steam railroad museum was formed, T&P had purchased a NYC Mohawk to replace #638, to insure T&P's presence would remain in the heart of Texans who visited the fair each year, and later, the museum as well.  

The museum is alive a well, though the name has been changed to The Museum of the American Railroad, and is now located north of Dallas in Frisco, Texas, right off of the former Frisco line that ran from Oklahoma to Ft. Worth.  They are currently in the process of restoring a Santa Fe Alco PA to all it's Warbonnet glory!    

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Saturday, February 04, 2017 3:34 AM

John: Off the T&P mainline a bit but worth mentioning here just the same.  No doubt, one of the best shows during the last years of steam was put on by the Pennsy when they leased 12 Santa Fe 2-10-4s to use on Lines West out of Columbus, Ohio, on the Sandusky Branch.

I found information and a neat slide show on them at www.columbusrailroads.com Go to Steam Railroads and pull down to Pennsylvania Railroad.  Pull up Santa Fe Class 5011 which will warm the heart of any Pennsy and Santa Fe fan interested in the best of both railroads!  

A pity T&P didn't have any Texas Types to send to the PRR!  Back on T&P subject, the Texas & Pacific purchased retired Ft. Worth & Denver 2-8-2, no. 410 from the FW&D to use for East Texas Red River flood duty.  Renumbered 400, she survives on display at the T&P depot in Marshall, Texas.  Visit Railway Preservation News www.rypn.org to read the May 26, 2008 artical about her.  Lots of photos too!     

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Posted by De Luxe on Saturday, February 04, 2017 5:15 PM

The only photos of 638 that I have are these 3:

And the only video footage of a T&P 2-10-4 in revenue service that I know of are these few seconds from 4:20 to 4:33 here:

The good thing is, that it´s even in color!!! BUT there is something wrong with this video: It´s supposed to show railroads during WWII, but this is certainly not the case as there is video footage of the MILW Olympian Hiawatha and SLSF/MKT Texas Special. Both trains were introduced years after WWII ended (in 1947 and 1948), so these facts make me assume that either the title of this video has been confused or it has just been created years after the end of WWII and therefore showing wrong footage which is not correct for the WWII era. What is also interesting: that T&P 2-10-4 shown in the video is all black. No trace of a green boiler or red cab roof visible. As far as I know the T&P Texas types used to be all black only in the very last years of operation (1950/1951).

I´m not surprised if video footage of T&P in revenue service doesn´t exist. Especially not of the Texas types, since they mostly operated through isolated and scarcely popluated plain and desert areas of western Texas.

By the way: If you stop the video at 4:29/4:30, you can see the number of the engine a bit better. Still not sure, but to me it looks indeed as if it could be #610.

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Posted by RME on Saturday, February 04, 2017 5:40 PM

After 1948 for sure, probably close to 1950.

Look at the cars toward the beginning, then the 'service' B-36es, then the four-porthole E units.

Video is mislabeled "WWII" - this is an AAR promotional release playing up the continued relevance of railroads to national defense as we went into the Korean War era.

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Sunday, February 05, 2017 3:15 AM

WOW is all that I can say!  Thanks for the pix of T&P 638 and the video clip too!  The bottom photo is how 638 looked when my grandfather took me down to Fair Park to see her shortly after she was placed on display.  I was just knee high to a Texas grasshopper on that eventful day! 

It remains a CRIME that she was scrapped by Fair Park executives because of "vandalism" since the only items that had been vandalized were the items made out of glass: headlight, gauges, etc.  I'm certain that the T&P would have replaced them for free since the 638 was a great publicity machine for the railroad. 

Item: T&P's East Dallas Yard bordered the fairgrounds!

The Katy E8s sure look good as do the PAs that show up later in the clip, even my dear old Santa Fe passes by.  The shot of the T&P 2-10-4 does look as if it is the 610 at that.  It appears to be approaching Dallas Union Terminal from the west just having crossed the Trinity River.  Check out pix of T&P trains behind Mr. D's Machine and you'll reconize the signal bridge and industrial area in the distance in those photos.

Other scenes of interest: The Afro-American waiters serving all white passengers in dining cars; the factory workers turning out manufacured goods Made in USA!  The GI in uniform near the end of the flick wearing a red band on his arm.  This is a Transportation Corp armband.  I wore them while serving in the USATC in Germany in the 60s!

All in all, an America that is a far cry from what we have today.  Hard to imigine just a few years after the Koren War long haired hippies would be burning draft cards and Americans would be divided as a result of the US involvement in Viet Nam.  America hadn't been that divided since the years that led up to the War Between the States....and look at us today?

United We Stand; Divided We Fall

It scary to say the least with our cities currently full of angry protestors and executive orders being signed into power that question the Constitution of the United States of America.  

Pray for guidance from above and for world peace.  If WWIII breaks out all mankind looses!     

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Posted by De Luxe on Sunday, February 05, 2017 3:32 PM

You´re welcome! I´m glad you like the photo and video.

Oh really? Only the glass parts were destroyed? What a shame! I didn´t know this before! I thought that I remember reading that it was so badly vandalized that the whole cab was already off. Anyway, it´s a shame.

Wow, I didn´t know you would recognize the exact location in the video! Interesting!

You mentioned the dining car scene. This led me to the following question: How did black people eat on segregated trains? I know that many southern roads used to have partitioned coaches with sections for blacks and whites. So how was the procedure when the blacks wanted to eat? Were they allowed to cross the white sections/cars on their way to the dining car and eat there among other whites? Or were they served at their seats with a meal service? I would really like to know.

Very well said! America is a far cry from what we have today. I think it´s mostly because the younger generations are now indoctrinated and dulled by the media instead of being properly educated to become adults with independent, critical and rational thinking. This lack of education and knowledge makes you a very easy prey to be manipulated with, and it´s the reason why so many especially young people nowadays are sooo alarmingly naive and blind and therefore develop stupid herd mentality without really thinking and questioning things seriously. I live in Germany and look what a mess it has become: I´m very sure: if you would visit Germany now, you would not recognize this country anymore, because it has changed in so many ways to the bad compared to the 60s!

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Posted by PRR8259 on Sunday, February 05, 2017 6:02 PM

Thanks for posting the images and video.  Way cool!

I particularly love the 2nd photo with the noticeable blue-green paint color!

I read elsewhere that only a few 2-10-4’s EVER had the blue-green paint.  They were primarily in freight service.  ALL 11 2-8-2's got the flashy paint as did at least most pacifics and all mountains.  This is from multiple sources.  The Key Imports history sheet states all mikados in series 800 to 810...the FW&D engine was acquired after all other regular service steam had ended.

I do not know what all steamers got the Eagle scheme.

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Monday, February 06, 2017 6:12 AM

DeLuxe, perhaps I stand corrected regarding the vandelism of T&P 638.  Regardless, I'm sure the T&P would have gladly made the locomotive look good as new again if they had been approached by Fair Park officials.  

Good questions regarding Afro-Americans and how they were treated when they took the "Streamliners" to visit relatives.  I imigine many couldn't afford vacation travel by train and if they did were they permitted visitation rights to the National Parks for example?  These are unanswered questions I have as well.

In all, it's a sad example for a country founded in the name of freedom and justice for ALL?  Just think about the zillions of $$$ spent on the presidential campaigns by all of the wannabees who desired to become the next president.  Imigine if you will, if all of this $$$ would have been put to better use helping the needy and those who lost their jobs and homes to globalization as a result of companies who left the US and went elsewhere.  It is a crime against civilization.  Germany is no exception either!

CEOs and elite players in sports make millions each year, receive big fat bonuses, for sitting in fancy high rise HQ buildings or throwing balls back and forth to the roar of sports fans (many who work for the minimum wage!)....give me a break!  Where will this all end, I ask you?

We live in troubled times with greed and hate on the rise.  Are we headed for a worldwide revolution?  In addition, Fake news helps spread much of the civil unrest we see in cities all over our poor polluted planet today and the silly twittering done by an ever increasing amount of blooming idiots doesn't help the situation either!

I don't have to visit Germany.  I've "been there, done that"....since Dec. 17, 2016, for 40 years as a matter of fact, right here in Ansbach, Middle Franconia, Bavaria, the scene of a terrible terrorist attack last autumn in the heart of the city!  That still doesn't mean I have hate in my heart towards Muslims.  I worked side by side with many great Muslim men and women in my 31 years I spent with Deutsche Bundesbahn/Deutsche Bahn AG!

I served with some of the best Afro-Americans I ever met in the US Army and on the Cotton Belt and ATSF before that!  Each one of us was put on this planet for a reason.  It remains a mystery why but I always try to live by the the Golden Rule day by day.  No, it isn't always easy and I am guilty of having run off my big Texas Mess mouth more than once in the past as well.  

However, if every man and woman will try to live the Golden Rule we have a pretty good chance of saving spaceship earth to insure a better future for our children.  The result can be written in a simple four letter word: L O V E

This is gold you won't find at the end of any rainbow!       

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Posted by De Luxe on Wednesday, February 08, 2017 8:07 PM

I´m sure too T&P would have made it look good again cause T&P seemed to have been of the roads that cared most about the look and apperance of their locos.

Please stop using the word Afro-Americans. Or do you call white people Euro-Americans? It´s just soo ridiculous! I hate political correctness you should know. Visitation rights to National Parks? Does that mean blacks were not allowed to enter National Parks back in those days? That would be something completely new info for me! Interesting how far this racial discrimination reached if this is true!

Yes, Germany is no exception at all. The difference compared to the USA is only, that Germans did not give away their industry and outsourced the jobs. That´s why it´s economic situation is still standing strong compared to the rest, although by now it´s not nearly as in good shape as it was decades before. The crime against civilization happening in Germany is a cultural/demographic one. In about 4-5 years those german men aged 18-30 will be a minority in their own country, while muslim men in Germany in this age range will be the majority then. To what this fatal development leads you can imagine very well I guess!

It will end in a big (financial) crash and/or war. That´s for sure.

Yes, there is too much virtual action (senseless/useless) happening than real action. This is why nothing changes for the better because people are only talking and typing but not doing anything about urgent problems.

Yes, there is definetly no reason to visit Germanistan these days anymore. You´ve been there during a much better time, when numbers of Muslims were much lower and also the attitude of Muslims was much more westernized than today. It´s actually incomparable.

Oh I love big mess mouths, believe me (I especially love the directness and straightforward attitude of Texans). I myself have a very big mouth too and a tongue that knows no censureship. You shouldn´t feel guilty about running off your mouth at any time. Freedom of speech is an invaluable thing!

Yes, love is the greatest thing of all but let me tell you this: you can´t confront hate with love without being destroyed! If you think that you can prevent somebody who hates you from killing you by showing him love, you will gain nothing but lose totally.

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Posted by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer on Thursday, February 09, 2017 11:27 AM

I was raised in Texas (Dallas and environs) and well remember the cafes with the notice on the front that Colored Entrance in the Rear and on buses and streetcars in Big D: Colored passengers seating is in the rear.  Rosa Parks remains one of my most respected human beings of the 20th century!  God Bless her and her courage to stand up against what amounted to the warped minded, hate filled, KKK!

Three of my favorite US motion pictures: Mississippi Burning; In the Heat of the Night; Shaft (the original).  Foreign: Der Zug (filmed on the SNCF).  The English version sucks.  I always watch it in German.  The Germans talk in their native language making the movie that much more realsitic.

I don't know about the national parks or the coast to coast Streamliners.  Could blacks reserve passage in Pullman cars? 

I must admit, I am ignorant on the subject but plan to educate my 70 yer old white a** through information I can now ontain thanks to the www!

Ansbach has an ever growing (it seems) Muslim population.  I stay on the other side of the street when I encounter a mess of Muslims in town!  I believe in the Golden Rule to a point.  I don't plan to go down without taking at least one young buck with me if the situation should present itself!

I also believe in the Boy Scout slogan: BE PREPARED!

Back to the T&P: Does anyone know if the Mopac produced any publicity films on the Eagles?  A lot of railroads promoted their crack trains this way.  Santa Fe was one, such as the Super Chief, as well as vacationing the Souhwest.

 

 

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Posted by De Luxe on Thursday, February 09, 2017 2:08 PM

Yes, it´s really horrible when you realize how this allegedly nation of freedom (USA) was still having such inhuman things like racial segregation in the 50s and 60s! Many people just don´t realize that the USA was way behind other (non muslim!!!) countries when it comes to the topic of basic human rights. Do you know that Muslims totally fancy the KKK as well as Nazis?

My 3 favorite movies of all times in order of favor are:

1. The 10 Commandments (1956)

2. Cleopatra (1963)

3. Lord of the rings trilogy (2002-2004)

Interesting question! Hope somebody else can answer if blacks were allowed in the sleepers! But I guess that won´t happen in a thread about T&P videos!

It´s never too late to educate yourself. Never! The www is a great source. It´s full of crap but also full of interesting stuff you would never know about without it. All in all just a great chance to get (insider) informations.

Not only Ansbach. All of Germany. France, Belgium and the UK are even worse off. Oh please don´t act in such a subjugative manner! Muslims are encouraged by their fanatic scripts to not make place for an infidel in a narrow street and walk in the middle so that the infidel needs to squeeze himself to the side of the road in order to pass. This is really true. I would never change the side when facing Muslims. Just walk straight forward normally with your head up high. But ok, maybe it´s easier to tell that from my point of view since I´m 40 years younger than you and 6 ft. 3 in. tall.

Yes, that Boy Scout slogan is great! Although I´ve never been a Boy Scout, I wrote an 80 page essay about them and the usefulness of Boy Scout rules in ordinary school classes.

I´m not aware of any publicity film by Mopac. I guess if there is one existing, it would have already been posted on youtube. By the way the only streamliner publicity films I know of (that are on youtube) are about the Super Chief, the California Zephyr, the Olympian Hiawatha, the Canadian, the Broadway Limited and the 20th Century Limited.

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