I grew up in Norfolk, Va and was fortunate enough to see steam in Norfolk until late 1959. My grandfather was an official for the Norfolk Southern which was headquartered in the Union Station office building along with the Virginian and the Belt Line. My mother had a job at the office building and drove the newly painted 57 Chrysler to work. Remenber my father complaining about soot on the car from the N&W S1A's that switched the station, pushed the passenger cars through the car wash, and did local switching in Norfolk. Remember seeing them in late 59. My parents took me to the Norfolk Tars baseball game in 55. Remember over the center field fence on the N&W tracks set a S1A switcher parked so the crew could watch the ball game. Rode a J powered passenger train in June of 58 - last month of regular steam powered mailine passenger trains. Also remembered the ex RF&P Beltline 0-6-0 switchers that switched the Norfolk Ford assembly plant until replaced by SW9's in 56. Good time to be growing up in Norfolk in the 50's.
When a railfan passes on he knows he went to Heaven if ends up trackside in the 1950's. You witnessed some interesting railroading, hope you had a camera!
Trackside in my neighborhood in the 1950's: NKP Bluebird PA's, ACL E6's on the "South Wind", Erie FT's and PA's, South Shore steeplecabs, Monon BL2's and a host of others.
The trains, the cars, the music, no wonder they're called "The Fabulous 50's."
Firelock76 The trains, the cars, the music, no wonder they're called "The Fabulous 50's."
CSSHEGEWISCH Firelock76 The trains, the cars, the music, no wonder they're called "The Fabulous 50's." Don't forget McCarthyism.
I haven't, I also remember McCarthy was censured and disgraced.
Come on now, it wasn't all bad.
And, Senator McCarthy was exonerated in recent years.
Johnny
Well, yes and no. With the collapse of the Soviet Union and the revelations that came with it, plus the FBI's bugs in the Soviet embassy in Washington we know just how aggressive the Russians and their sympathisers in this country were, however Joe McCarthy would have had no access to any of the FBI's or CIA's intelligence sources, those were of a secrecy level that amounted to "burn before reading." No way would a loose cannon like McCarthy have been trusted with any of that material.
This can get off the subject of trains in the 50's very quickly, so I'll say no more.
How 'bout that N&W, huh?
Would've been great to stand trackside on the ridge while those heavy coal trains with articulated helpers and pushers thundered up the grade.
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Penny TrainsWould've been great to stand trackside on the ridge while those heavy coal trains with articulated helpers and pushers thundered up the grade.
Recall attending a B&O company picnic at a picnic ground near Mars, PA astride the B&O's P&W Subdivision in about 1953-1954. Westbound coal train passed with a articulated steam leader and double headed articulated steam helpers. Cinders were still falling 10 minutes after the train had passed.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
While station as a leutenant at Fort Bragg, Dec. '54 - Oct. '56, fellow lt. Delbert Parker was a good friend. He invited me to spend one off-post pass weekend with him with his family in a coal-mining town in West Virginia, and I think his dad was indeed a coal-miner. Much of the tine was taken with neighbors and relatives coming to hear Delbert talk about life in the Army. The family members were not railfans, so I did not have much opportunity to be trackside. Both N&W and C&O had lines through the town, one visible from the house. So I could looik out the window and see coal trains powered by mallets and assisted by mallets. When I did have a few minutes at trackside on both lines, the noise was definiting, and the falling cinders continuous, the next train blasting away before the cinders of the first cleared.
Regarding McCarthy, I believe he was censured because he did not stop with real Communissts but extended his pursuit to respected members of the Eisenhower Administration, including the Assistant Secretart of State, if my memory is correct.
It's said there's sections of the old N&W and C&O where if you walk along trackside you'll be crunching cinders underfoot deposited there by long-ago steam locomotives.
David, your memory's pretty good, I believe one of the things that put some of the final nails in McCarthy's coffin were his accusations toward General George Marshall. When he went after as distingushed an officer as Marshall, who's also been called one of the greatest soldiers this country's ever produced, he'd really gone too far.
"Cinders were still falling ten minutes after the train had passed"-BaltACD
"...and the falling cinders continuous, the next train blasting away before the cinders of the first cleared"- daveklepper
"..crunching cinders underfoot deposited there by long ago steam locomotives"- Firelock'76
Can you even imagine this scenario existing today? ...the lawsuits both real and phoney would be continuous, more so than the cinders themselves...the railroads would run afoul of so many environmental rules and standards at so many levels of government that it woud be astonishing. Yet we survived, the greatest advancements in science and technology came about from those that were present...and we have fond memories and cherish the times.
Its all mind boggling...where we were then and where we are now.
Firelock76 It's said there's sections of the old N&W and C&O where if you walk along trackside you'll be crunching cinders underfoot deposited there by long-ago steam locomotives.
I was once hiking along the PRR mainline near Gillitzen PA, came across an area where the cinder soot was so deep my foot went into it about a good eight inches. I dug some of it up, put it in an empty water bottle and used it on my layout.
Miningman"Cinders were still falling ten minutes after the train had passed"-BaltACD "...and the falling cinders continuous, the next train blasting away before the cinders of the first cleared"- daveklepper "..crunching cinders underfoot deposited there by long ago steam locomotives"- Firelock'76 Can you even imagine this scenario existing today? ...the lawsuits both real and phoney would be continuous, more so than the cinders themselves...the railroads would run afoul of so many environmental rules and standards at so many levels of government that it woud be astonishing. Yet we survived, the greatest advancements in science and technology came about from those that were present...and we have fond memories and cherish the times. Its all mind boggling...where we were then and where we are now.
100 years ago the World was in the midst of it's first technology incubator!
World War I
As distasteful and disasterous as wars are, nothing pushes technology further, faster than desire to kill our fellow humans faster and in higher quantities. With the development of the Atomic Bomb, society now understands that is possesses the technology to wipe humanity off the face of the Earth.
Depending on the 'road, one use for cinders in the old days was track ballasting, especially in yards.
There's a story of a crusty, salty old yard foreman who reacted to the new diesels by saying "Diesels? What good are they? Where you gonna get your cinders from?"
Miningman"..crunching cinders underfoot deposited there by long ago steam locomotives"- Firelock'76 Can you even imagine this scenario existing today?
In 1993 I kicked a red hot cinder slightly larger than a softball around in a puddle to cool it as it had just been dropped by the passage of the 2765. It's on a shelf in the basement, probably the most unique piece of railroadiana in my collection.
BaltACDpossesses the technology to wipe humanity off the face of the Earth.
And struggles every day to prove that we have the wisdom to NOT do it.
Penny TrainsIn 1993 I kicked a red hot cinder slightly larger than a softball around in a puddle to cool it as it had just been dropped by the passage of the 2765.
That is almost certainly going to be a clinker, not a cinder -- they are really different!
Getting something that size out through the tubes and flues is of course unlikely, and even if there were some 'recombination' in the smokebox, it shouldn't have made it through the self-cleaning screens in the front end.
Clinker on the other hand should have been trapped in the ashpan or hopper; be interesting to see where it 'hung up' to be dropped...
Yes of course, that is definitly a clinker and certainly not a cinder. Can you even imagine if softball size hot waste material was hurled from the stack! That would be a pyroclastic cloud and material rivalling a volcano. There would be hundreds if not thousands of fatalities every day! Cinders are tiny and rain from above in a soft falling motion. Riding behind steam in an open window coach the cinders will come inside. Anthracite burns far more cleanly with less impurities and hence the Phoebe Snow effect.
Back from the field now. The terrain was very rough, the students wet cold and tired and certainly glad to be out of the wilderness after a week. Bugs were very bad, lots of swamp, lots of steep hills and gullys.
Glad to be back.
Glad to have you back Miningman! Was there any decent fishing up there to make all that misery somewhat palatable?
Back to cinders. Twenty-plus years ago I watched an excursion car host training film done by the Roanoke VA chapter of the NRHS, they were one of the folks sponsoring the Norfolk-Southern steam program. To illustrate the amount of cinders pumped out by big steamers like 611 and 1218 the instructor in the film put on a white cotton glove and then stuck his hand out an open window coach. It didn't take long for the palm of the glove to go black!
The lesson was, make sure everyone riding in open coaches was wearing goggles, cinders aren't super hazardous but they're not to be ignored either.
The ? in question:
All I know is it made steam when I kicked it in the puddle.
Yes that's a clinker! It is non combustible material found in the coal that fuses together to form a slag. Something like that cannot get through the flues and up and out the stack...as RME stated it had to have fallen out from the ash pan somewhere...they actually make a clinking sound, very distinctive, when they are hot.
Looks like a moon rock!
I'd say definately a clinker, that is waste material in the coal that solidified into a solid mass and then found it's way to trackside where the right person could find it and give it a good home.
Neat souvenir!
Firelock'76- The fishing is incredible up there. It is a short hike to any number of prestine lakes...walleye and lake trout are trophy size. The students were in no mood for fishing after the first days line cutting and walking out the wire for IP surveys...they ate like horses and crashed out early,...they got better at it 2nd day and then things were good...we did not have a boat but fished from shore and rock outcrops..one student caught 17 walleye in short order.
Lots of fishing camps up this way, lots of Americans come up here to get away from it all and enjoy some good fishing and hunting.
Glad to hear the fishing's still good in Canada, Miningman! The best trout fishing I've done, ever, was thirty years ago in Ontario's Algonquin Provincial Park. You couldn't throw a line in the water without catching something! And then, right from the water into the frying pan with a little bacon fat and a little cedar ash and smoke from the fire for some added flavor.
Spoiled me for store-bought trout for good. Can't touch the stuff now!
I grew up in Portmouth, Va. right across the Elizabeth river from Norfolk. I witnessed countless N&W trains in the area in the 50's. The big coal yard at Lambert's point and the piers could be seen from the river. Used to ride a bike out to Yadkin I think was the name of the place to watch N&W trains go tearing by. It was double track and all straight at that point. The J's and K's could hit 100 between Norfok and Suffolk. Saw a lot of Y6b's and class A's too on coal trains and fast merchandise with the A's. In all those times, I never had a camera but they are tucked in my mind.
Ray
SPMan
SPMan, it sounds like you had a ringside seat to the greatest show on earth.
And the best thing about it, it was free!
How many of you who lived on the N&W remember when the J's were replaced by leased purple and silver Atlantic Coast Line E units? How many railfans took photos? Would make a great Photo of the Day for lovers of Mr. D's Machine!
WWI took millions of lives. RIP to each human being who died due to the Great War as it became to be known as. Sadly, man still hasn't learned to live with each other in peaceful coexistance. It's so easy and God gave us a simple four letter word to live by: L O V E !
When railroaders and railfans pass on they go to the Roundhouse in the Sky, just beyond the Big Rock Candy Mountains.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING Everyone and Please Pray for World Peace. We all win, even Thomas the Tank Engine too!
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