That paint scheme looks great in N scale! I get your point in real life though.
OvermodMeanwhile -- are these the Geeps you found so awful?
Nope. Those are beauties. It's this scheme that I find a tad uninspired: http://www.railpictures.net/photo/481326/
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
Thanks for the assist Overmod. I rode behind a Spider-Man into Saskatoon from Winnipeg in July 2009 on the Canadian. I'm on the road now..stopped in at a Timmies for supplies ( coffee and doughnuts), took a break and checked in real quick. Will let you all know if I encounter anything unusual or interesting.
MiningmanWas trying to post picture of the VIA Rail Spider-Man and Diet Pepsi...
Diet Pepsi was no worse than most of the 'principally white' Bicentennial schemes. I didn't care for it principally because it looks like one of those cheap toy trains with one-piece shell decorated with stickers instead of decals.
I thought the Spider-Man 2 engines were actually kinda snazzy -- not intended to win elegant beauty contests, but they got the purpose across without decreasing the sense of the engine as a locomotive.
Was trying to post picture of the VIA Rail Spider-Man and Diet Pepsi...horrifying really.
MiningmanMore silly stuff was Via Rail doing their F40ph in Home Hardware, Telus Mobility, Kool Aid ...
My word. I stand thoroughly corrected. Either with sharp vision or blurred, it's difficult not to give the booby prize to this (in 3D rotation for your better appreciation of the design elements)
Of course, this was only the first of the VIA schemes I looked at, so further agenbite might be forthcoming. You forgot Spider-Man 2, and the not one but two different Coors engines (which are really not 'awful' so much as resembling upsized versions of cheap promo HO models...) The Budweiser scheme actually has potential if it were to be done with some actual artistic talent.
The only bona fide weird one was Loto-Quebec, which struck me as how the Music City Express power would look if the zombie apocalypse came. Is it known what the point of that 'weathering' treatment was supposed to be? And I liked the trope better when it was a goose and not a chicken.
Fabulous pics Overmod.
As for Penny's basic black preference for all steam I respectfully disagree.
NYC streamlined Hudsons for the century in grey were outstanding. If you ever witnessed a GTW or CN U4a and U4b Northerns in their green streamlining, at speed or at rest, it is not a forgotten sight. Ditto for CN Hudsons, B&O Cincinnatian and Presidential Pacifics in blue, Canadian Pacific grey boilers and maroon running boards on lots of locomotives, and of course the Southern Ps-4 and SP Daylights and the Hiawatha's.
More silly stuff was Via Rail doing their F40ph in Home Hardware, Telus Mobilty, Kool Aid, Quebec Lotto and Budweiser. Fortunately these units never ran state side so you were spared.
Where is the advocacy for the Southern Ps-4 for 'best paint scheme, steam' (if only to quieten DPM's shade as it clamors for attention)?
And while we are on the subject of green, tarted-up ancient Pacifics, I'd have to suggest this as the 'worst paint scheme' ... Otto Kuhler related a story about one of the Lackawanna people proudly showing one of these N-class things; he pretended to look up carefully under the valance, and when asked what he was doing, said "I'm looking for the mechanism that makes the wings flap"
Only one was green, apparently sneaked in and painted for a fantrip of some kind. They weren't quite as silly in the 'standard' black trim ... but then you'd have to look over at the 4-4-0 that got this beauty treatment, and that was perhaps the only thing wackier than those Milwaukee streamlined 4-6-0s...
WHICH of the Herbert Matter color schemes were you referring to? (if I recall they were intentionally subtlely different). Be advised that the "McGinnis" refers to Lucille, not that crook Patrick...
People don't know enough about Matter the designer; here's his official site.
Meanwhile -- are these the Geeps you found so awful?
I rather like that style, in the same way I like the Chessie System scheme with the broken cat dish.
I do think we have to rule out a couple of 'worst diesel schemes', for example, anything by Cesar Vergara or designed by kids like that Bicentennial scheme I shall leave otherwise unmentioned. But...
I submit that few are quite as just plain execrably bad as...
Well that got a reaction I didn't anticipate. Let's try this again.
Best merger: How about UP-SP for the unification of both original transcontinental lines? (Not to mention UP's acquisition of it's rival.)
Worst merger: Can we even count Penn Central? Didn't everybody expect it to fail before it even got going?
Best paint scheme: diesel: Union Pacific yellow, red, gray
Best paint scheme: steam: Every road that used basic black!
Best paint scheme: electric: New Haven MacGinnis (sp?)
Worst paint scheme: diesel: When Ann Arbor had giant letters on their Geeps.
Worst paint scheme: steam: Norfolk and Western in the years where they left the tender flanks bare and had just a small road name on the cab.
Worst paint scheme: electric: I really can't think of one.
[quote user="KBCpresident"]
I just thought that it would be fun to see what people come up with, so here is my idea. Nominations (opinions) about what railroads you would nominate for the following awards:
-Best Merger
-Worst Merger
-Best Paint Scheme
-Worst Paint Scheme
If you have ideas for any more awards, feel free to add them!
[/quote
Here is the original post, notice "what railroads would you nominate".
K4sPRR Firelock76 Penny Trains mentioned a best merger that I'm surprised none of us thought of, EMC and GM. In that vein, let me propose a best merger of my own, or maybe it's a "near-best." Schenectady, Richmond, Brooks, and Dickson Locomotive Works (among others) into what became ALCO, the American Locomotive Company. Not around today, but great while they lasted. The general board of The Academy of Railroad Arts and Sciences has voted to dismiss the nomination of EMD and ALCo, they were not railroads.
Firelock76 Penny Trains mentioned a best merger that I'm surprised none of us thought of, EMC and GM. In that vein, let me propose a best merger of my own, or maybe it's a "near-best." Schenectady, Richmond, Brooks, and Dickson Locomotive Works (among others) into what became ALCO, the American Locomotive Company. Not around today, but great while they lasted.
Penny Trains mentioned a best merger that I'm surprised none of us thought of, EMC and GM. In that vein, let me propose a best merger of my own, or maybe it's a "near-best."
Schenectady, Richmond, Brooks, and Dickson Locomotive Works (among others) into what became ALCO, the American Locomotive Company. Not around today, but great while they lasted.
The general board of The Academy of Railroad Arts and Sciences has voted to dismiss the nomination of EMD and ALCo, they were not railroads.
I beg your pardon: where in the original question did it say "RAILROAD mergers"?
No doubt the consolidation of EMC, Winton, and GM, with Sloan watching to be sure everything went right, had more significance for railroading than any mere combination of operating companies. And it could be argued that much of the innovation that characterized the decade and a half after the Alco merger wouldn't have happened, or would have had much-diluted effect, had it been spread among the various pre-merger builders (or they had segmented on the basis of technical preferences or patents).
Of course, or curse, this brings up one of the worst mergers: Baldwin and Lima, with Lima being suppressed into a maker of heavy equipment. (We'll leave Hamilton out of it, as they were really only the catalyst with the free-piston stuff)
Firelock76 K4sPRR Firelock76 Penny Trains mentioned a best merger that I'm surprised none of us thought of, EMC and GM. In that vein, let me propose a best merger of my own, or maybe it's a "near-best." Schenectedy, Richmond, Brooks, and Dickson Locomotive Works (among others) into what became ALCO, the American Locomotive Company. Not around today, but great while they lasted. The general board of The Academy of Railroad Arts and Sciences has voted to dismiss the nomination of EMD and ALCo, they were not railroads. BOOOOOOOO! OK, how about a "Special Award" Oscar like Shirley Temple got?
K4sPRR Firelock76 Penny Trains mentioned a best merger that I'm surprised none of us thought of, EMC and GM. In that vein, let me propose a best merger of my own, or maybe it's a "near-best." Schenectedy, Richmond, Brooks, and Dickson Locomotive Works (among others) into what became ALCO, the American Locomotive Company. Not around today, but great while they lasted. The general board of The Academy of Railroad Arts and Sciences has voted to dismiss the nomination of EMD and ALCo, they were not railroads.
Firelock76 Penny Trains mentioned a best merger that I'm surprised none of us thought of, EMC and GM. In that vein, let me propose a best merger of my own, or maybe it's a "near-best." Schenectedy, Richmond, Brooks, and Dickson Locomotive Works (among others) into what became ALCO, the American Locomotive Company. Not around today, but great while they lasted.
Schenectedy, Richmond, Brooks, and Dickson Locomotive Works (among others) into what became ALCO, the American Locomotive Company. Not around today, but great while they lasted.
BOOOOOOOO!
OK, how about a "Special Award" Oscar like Shirley Temple got?
Maybe under the catagory of "supporting cast" or "technical support".
Best shortline? OK, I'll admit this is a sentimental favorite but...
The Reading and Northern up in Pennsylvania, started from almost nothing back in the 80's, now a local powerhouse that even hauls anthracite! How many "Roads of Anthracite" are there anymore?
Besides, they run steam! Pacific 425 done up in a gorgeous "Blue Comet" type color scheme, and coming soon Reading 4-8-4 T-1 2102! How cool is that?
I have another category, and I will be specific:
Best Independent Shortline/Regional. To qualify, a RR must have an intact corporate identity unique to itself. If it has since been merged out of existance, or swallowed by a holidng company, it can still qualify.
Too many categories?
The Beaverton, Fanno Creek & Bull Mountain Railroad
"Ruby Line Service"
Alright, perhaps I should clarify:
when I throw around "best" I would leave that up for interpretation. I use "best" as creative,best engineered OR simply favorite. I think any of those could be nominated. FOr instance I nominate the MP15AC as best switcher, because I like the fact that you can give a switcher a tunnel motor configuration, and they were only sold to a few companies
Regarding steam being unfait, lets add the category of "best steam." in addition to best "operating" steam.
The nickname is credited to a newspaper reporter in Norwalk Ohio who in 1881 complimented the railroad about the quality of its construction.
There's a great story of how the Nickle Plate got it's name.
Story goes, William Vanderbilt, heir to the Commodore, was very interested in the new New York, Chicago and Saint Louis Railroad and expressed his interested in buying it to the owners. After hearing their price, and picking his lower jaw off the floor, Vanderbilt exclaimed "WHAT! Confound it, is that road nickle plated?"
Great story. Is it true? If it ain't, it oughta be!
Worst Merger. Do hostile takeovers count as mergers? Because if they do then the Vanderbilt takeover of the Nickel Plate 3 days into it's operational history would be my choice.
Best merger. General Motors and Electro Motive.
Favorite saved loco. I have to give a lot of credit to Union Pacific for having a lot of courage to even attempt the restoration of a 4-8-8-4!
Besides..these are the "Oscars" so we can have new winners every year.
CN Hudson 5700 is actually 5703, as the real 5700 was scrapped by mistake. Now we hear this same "scrapped by mistake" story about a B&O EM-1, a N&W Y6b and even a NYC J3a. ...and those are just the ones I know about, I'm sure there are others. How is this even remotely possible? Was the message sent by Pony Express?
Assumed it meant steam locomotives that ran in excursion service well after steam had disappeared. Would be wonderful if a U4b could be in running condition again. Both CPR 3100 & 3101 are still with us as well, again just static display. As are 2 CNR Hudsons. Will future generations rebuild and restore any of these to running once again?
MiningmanPreserved steam- Not fair! Partial to an earlier one, CN #6218, Queen of the rails. How do you choose one over another?
Not to say anything against 6218, she and I have a 'history' of sorts ... but you can't possibly claim that a U4b isn't all that and much, much more. (And got the streamlining details right that were fudged on 6400).
Unstreamlined, I am gleefully unorthodox in noting that CP had better 4-8-4s and CN had better Hudsons. So if you need 'just one' -- the biggest locomotive in the Empire, when a statistic like that mattered? The fastest locomotive in Canada? There are superlatives that actually do count when you start asking normative-sounding questions ... and are foolish enough to have 'one best of all' contests...
1st generation Diesels I would go along with the BP-20, for looks anyway. PA's would likely be the choice of the majority, hard to beat the Santa Fe Warbonnet,.. but all of them were beatuifully done.
Switchers- Baldwin, Lima, FM all had a great look to them. Alco high hoods and FM with the Loewy styling.
Preserved steam- Not fair! Partial to an earlier one, CN #6218, Queen of the rails. How do you choose one over another?
Being in Canada I never heard a Baldwin locomotive "burbling" as they lovingly say. CP had some switchers in BC but that was thousands of miles away and I was just a kid. I've heard recordings but that's not the same as the experience.
Can't imagine what an eight engined Centipede would sound like. Wonder if this sound could be digitally reproduced.
Best 1st generation: GP7/9 (with honorable mention GP10s and the program behind them, although this is not strictly 1st generation). I might have voted for the Essl Baldwin, if all eight engines had been installed and the thing had found a high-speed niche... and Baldwin had been able to build it so it worked. (This was notable because the engine sets were modular right up to their section of carbody roof. I have trouble understanding how Baldwin got so far wrong after having so many right ideas very early.) I'll always have a soft spot for the BP-20s, but you can tell most of what you need to know by the list of railroads that rostered them.
Best diesel sound (idling) - anything with a 16-567. Better still, a consist of them (which Mid-South still regularly ran in Shreveport in the mid-Nineties).
Best second-generation diesel sound (better than the LRC locomotives) - the U34CH. (Extra points for the flame show.) There is little quite as LOUD as one of the big 251Vs, especially with a cracked manifold (you will fear for your eardrum integrity for a moment!) but that's really all they are. The U34CH on the other hand not only had character, it had poppet-valve steam-engine character. And looked every bit the part that it sounded.
I was a bit disappointed by the Turbotrain 'experience' trackside, as the sound and smell were quite familiar from airports and not particularly exciting or evocative of high speed. And the train seemed lanky and laid-back following the old New Haven main, rather than the surprising behavior of the 'toasters' and Amfleet after the great speedup in the latter 1980s, going through Princeton Junction like a knife thrown past your head. I did not experience the Turboliner as anything more than a fancy railcar that happened to have turbine power, which probably was less than fair.
By "best" do you think it should be best looking or actually successful designs? Some first generation diesels were quite stunning in looks but not so great in service.
My choice for 2nd generation is the Sante Fe FP45 built for passenger service. There were only 14 produced but they sure looked pretty good.
Also I would like to add another category- Best Sounding Diesel whether it's idling, just starting to move or at speed.
My choice for the best diesel sound category may not be fair as few of my American cousins got a chance to experience the sound. That would be the locomotives built for the LRC for Via Rail 1980-84. The prime mover was designed by Alco, built by MLW/Bombraider, it was a very powerful engine and squeezed a lot of hp ( I think 3,700) in a compact car body. Idling at a station while picking up/discharging passengers the sound was wham wham wham wham wham ..like Thor was striking his hammer at high speed and the power of it all was quite audible as it departed. ...and it could be smokey upon departure, just like an Alco would be expected to be, not as badly as previous Alco's.
A turbine departing a station, especially leaving a union station with its covered platforms sure was an unforgettable sound.
Best 2nd Gen: SD40T-2 or SD45
Overmod ... The fundamental design was worked out in the '30s, as an air compressor for submarines. Here is where the story gets interesting: the Hamilton machine company acquired the rights to this thing, and started engine research. Lima smells possibility knocking, and acquires Hamilton -- ostensibly for their 4-stroke diesel engine, but manifestly NOT the powerplant of destiny for anything bigger than an endcab switcher or double-end transfer engine. Baldwin now sees a way out of their slow-speed tugboat engine dilemma, and buys up Lima-Hamilton. Meanwhile GM is hell-for-leather on automotive versions (a colossal failure ... decidedly unlike the coal-burning turbine Eldorados, but I digress...) and large shipboard installations (including one in a Liberty ship in 1956 that demonstrated rather dramatically where one of the problems with the technology was0 and locomotive instantiation. Now, people will tell you the Fontaine locomotive was never used in service, and they'll tell you EMD never built a free-piston locomotive, but... check this out. (It was, in fact, not completed, for reasons I think I can guess pretty easily). The thing in the early '50s was this: Baldwin was behind the curve with lightweight diesel design, after being ahead of everyone in modular genset tech but not being able to sell it for profit, and here was the chance to scoop everyone on the way to lightweight turbine power without the turbine inlet temperature problem (note how happily I avoid troublesome acronyms!)
...
The fundamental design was worked out in the '30s, as an air compressor for submarines. Here is where the story gets interesting: the Hamilton machine company acquired the rights to this thing, and started engine research. Lima smells possibility knocking, and acquires Hamilton -- ostensibly for their 4-stroke diesel engine, but manifestly NOT the powerplant of destiny for anything bigger than an endcab switcher or double-end transfer engine. Baldwin now sees a way out of their slow-speed tugboat engine dilemma, and buys up Lima-Hamilton. Meanwhile GM is hell-for-leather on automotive versions (a colossal failure ... decidedly unlike the coal-burning turbine Eldorados, but I digress...) and large shipboard installations (including one in a Liberty ship in 1956 that demonstrated rather dramatically where one of the problems with the technology was0 and locomotive instantiation. Now, people will tell you the Fontaine locomotive was never used in service, and they'll tell you EMD never built a free-piston locomotive, but...
check this out. (It was, in fact, not completed, for reasons I think I can guess pretty easily). The thing in the early '50s was this: Baldwin was behind the curve with lightweight diesel design, after being ahead of everyone in modular genset tech but not being able to sell it for profit, and here was the chance to scoop everyone on the way to lightweight turbine power without the turbine inlet temperature problem (note how happily I avoid troublesome acronyms!)
With this in mind, I would like to suggest a few more categories for the "Oscars":Best 1st Gen American Diesel
Best 2nd Gen American Diesel
Best AMerican Diesel SwitcherBest Surviving Steamer
Any thoughts?
Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!
Get the Classic Trains twice-monthly newsletter