Head Brakeman Shelter

[OldViking]

In the new summer 2016 issue of "Classic Trains," there is a short photo article entitled "Narrow-gauge Mikados at Antonito, CO. 

Item 10. Head brakeman's shelter states, "It was a practice on some railroads to keep the head brakeman out of the cab. A significant minority of engineers simply would not allow trainmen in the cab." 

Why was this so......what was the reason for the hostility toward trainmen?

[NorthWest]

Probably for reasons of space. Locomotive cabs can be crowded, particularly on smaller narrow gauge locomotives.

[daveklepper]

At one time, diffferent unions.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

daveklepper

At one time, diffferent unions.

 

I'm not so sure on that, engineers and firemen were formerly in different Brotherhoods.

[Deggesty]

I have thought that "brotherhood" is another name for "union."

[NDG]

I was there when the Diesels came, and jobs disappeared by the train load, in all Crafts.

Can not speak my mind, as the Forum will be locked for sure.

Another word for 'Brotherhood' can often be 'Backstabbing' and 'Union' is sometimes done under the covers for at least one partner's satisfaction?

There was violence on the old oil-burning FEC, someone went to the electric chair, and they then instituted a cabooseless operation.

Unions appear to work together only when it is to their benefit to S the Company.

No wonder so many of the 'Old Timers' were always sour, it was NOT always 'The Company's Fault.'

The memories are not suitable for a Family Forum.

 

Sorry.

[Red Beard the Railroad Raider]

NDG;

I found your comments of interest.

I worked for the U.P. in Council Bluffs as a Yard Clerk almost 40 years ago.

BofRC (Brotherhood of Railroad Clerks , Freight Handlers, Steamship and Airline Clerks, ..or something like that)

Few people today realize what a group of grouchy malcontents many railroad men were.

By the time I hired out, there had been three major roster consolidations; lumping all the various clerks jobs in the Omaha / Council Bluffs terminal into one single seniority roster.

Many men who had worked daylight hours for years got bumped out of their old jobs and ended up having to take 2nd and 3rd trick jobs they hated (as well as hating the men that were blended into their roster!).

As a new kid on the job, it took a while to figure out what was going on.

There were some good men in the office, ..and a lot of A.H.s that would stab you in the back just for entertainment.

Regarding the issues between enginemen and brakemen:

Running a steam engine is serious work that takes constant attention.

Braking was hard and dangerous work, but when in the cab, they had nothing to do. Sitting on your rear end and wanting to chat was not only distracting to the enginemen, but created a great deal of resentment; especially if the guy was an endless talker.

 

[BaltACD]

Red Beard the Railroad Raider

NDG;

I found your comments of interest.

I worked for the U.P. in Council Bluffs as a Yard Clerk almost 40 years ago.

BofRC (Brotherhood of Railroad Clerks , Freight Handlers, Steamship and Airline Clerks, ..or something like that)

Few people today realize what a group of grouchy malcontents many railroad men were.

By the time I hired out, there had been three major roster consolidations; lumping all the various clerks jobs in the Omaha / Council Bluffs terminal into one single seniority roster.

Many men who had worked daylight hours for years got bumped out of their old jobs and ended up having to take 2nd and 3rd trick jobs they hated (as well as hating the men that were blended into their roster!).

As a new kid on the job, it took a while to figure out what was going on.

There were some good men in the office, ..and a lot of A.H.s that would stab you in the back just for entertainment.

Regarding the issues between enginemen and brakemen:

Running a steam engine is serious work that takes constant attention.

Braking was hard and dangerous work, but when in the cab, they had nothing to do. Sitting on your rear end and wanting to chat was not only distracting to the enginemen, but created a great deal of resentment; especially if the guy was an endless talker.

Roster consolidations continue to this day and still create hard feelings - no matter the craft.

[ACY Tom]

It's interesting that this thread, which has to do with the practical reasons for positioning a worker at a particular location, has deteriorated so quickly into an anti-Union screed, with one particular post being especially offensive.

My understanding is that the main reason for putting the head end brakeman in a tender "doghouse" was space. Look at pictures of steam locomotives and you can see that engines with doghouses tended to have small cabs with limited space. They were not so common on locos with large cabs. I doubt that Union rules ever played a very significant role, but there was a U.S. Government edict in the 1930's mandating space for the brakeman. If the cab was too small, the solution was fairly obvious.

As for Unions, they would never have been formed (at great risk to the employees) if everything had been so peachy-keen and hunky-dory on the railroad. There is plenty of blame to go around, on both sides, in the Unionization struggles. Union members were sometimes cruel and violent towards their peers as well as the Company representatives; and the "Captains of Industry" were cruel and violent toward Union members as well as their competitors and even their customers. It wasn't pretty. Suggesting that the Unions were somehow bad because of the climate in which they were formed, or that they held a monopoly on evil, is disingenuous, biased, and a flat-out lie, unsupported by historical fact. 

Tom 

 

[SD70M-2Dude]

+infinity ACY, as a current Union Rep I am glad to see that some people today still get it.

But at the same time I know where NDG & Red Beard are coming from, especially when speaking of the dark old days when corruption and Mob influence were far more common than today.

[BigJim]

ACY

My understanding is that the main reason for putting the head end brakeman in a tender "doghouse" was space. Look at pictures of steam locomotives and you can see that engines with doghouses tended to have small cabs with limited space.

Very true. If any of you have ever been to the VMT in Roanoke and climbed up to the cab of N&W 1218, you will have seen that there is really no space for the headend brakeman to ride for extensive miles over the road. 2156's cab is the same with the seat boxes against the back wall.

One thing that I found humorous in reading Kip Farrington's book about riding on the head end of many locomotives across the country is that he complained about riding in the N&W's Class J because it didn't have a seat for him to sit on. Poor guy had to stand up! 

[Firelock76]

So Kip Farrington got a cab ride on a Class J and then whizzed and moaned 'cause he had to stand up?  Jeez, I'd jump at the chance he had, even if the trip was from Roanoke to Norfolk, without a stop!

Or maybe he was PO'd the head-end crew didn't fawn over him because he was Kip Farrington?  We'll never know at this point what the dynamic was.

By the way, I HAVE read Kip's rail books and enjoyed them, although "Railroads at War" does come across at times like an info-mercial for CTC.

One last thing: I found a lot of the previous posts a bit disturbing.  I've always felt that us workin' stiffs had better stick together and watch out for each other, because if we don't, no-one else will.  We'd better care about each other because most assuredly, "They" don't.