Going Along The Former PRR Chicago - New York Mainline In Indiana

[Los Angeles Rams Guy]

This last September I finally got my first look at the former Pennsylvania Chicago - New York mainline; which, for someone who grew up in MILW and ICG territory in northeast Iowa back in the 60's and 70's, was a pretty big deal.  I had been in South Bend, Indiana attending my nephew's wedding and did get to see some of the former NYC mainline between Michigan City and South Bend on my way out there.  But going back to the Twin Cities, I decided I was going to drop down to Plymouth, Indiana and parallel the former PRR which I did all the way to Valparaiso on a combination of old U.S. 30 (aka Lincoln Highway) and current U.S. 30.  Stopping in all the towns along the way, I couldn't help but think what it would have been like to have been able to be trackside some 50-60 years ago when all the name passenger trains were running (FIVE passenger trains a day each way between Chicago and New York just makes me want to cry now) along with all the freight traffic that was mixed in as well.  It's single-tracked now under CFE ownership; the rail still looks good but is all jointed.  Can anyone tell me what it was like back in the days of PRR in this section and what was Conrail's rationale for downgrading the portion from Crestline, Ohio to Chicago that ultimately got the Amtrak version of the Broadway LTD discontinued as well.  Shouldn't have happened, IMHO.   

[chatanuga]

The PRR, while double track, was jointed rail, signalled for directional running, and dispatched by towers along the route.  The NYC was double track, welded rail, signaled for movement in either direction on both tracks, and was CTC dispatched.  The NYC was basically in better shape.  The PRR was patched heavily with slow orders and deferred maintenance during Penn Central.

Kevin

[MidlandMike]

In another thread abou NS congestion on the former NYC line, it was mantioned that NS put some money into upgrading the CFE line as a safety valve, and ran some trains over it, but I have not heard if they are still doing that.

[daveklepper]

But of course in PRR days, jointed rail but otherwise in very top excellent shape.  In Apex of the Atlantics (Kalmbach Book on the PRR E6) Steffie accounts riding 100 mph.  I road the Trailblazer and the Broadway and the General, some more than once, 1952 - 1967, and it was certainly fast and smooth.  With Penn Central, deterioration was obvious, perhaps even a bit earlier.

[LAWRENCE SMITH]

Read the Keystone magazine [V47, No.3, Autumn 2014] about the tales of the speeds made by the Pennsy along the Fort Wayne division, especially the T1s. It is hard to beleive some of the stories, especially given jointed rail, the pounding of heavy steam locos and the heavyweight cars. Ther best one was of a miltiary special out of Crestline to Chicago in the middle of the night arriving Chicago early AM - the claimed/implied speeds must have made the engine almost go airborne.

Separately, I was also allowed by his family to examine the original pay book  (all original handwriting in pencil) of a now deceased Pennsy engineman who signed on in late 1941 in Ft. Wayne. He made a comment in the comment box next to one of his runs out of Chicago which implied he ran Liverpool Jct. to Plymouth at an average speed well >120 mph in a K4s. One wonders.

[BaltACD]

LAWRENCE SMITH

Read the Keystone magazine [V47, No.3, Autumn 2014] about the tales of the speeds made by the Pennsy along the Fort Wayne division, especially the T1s. It is hard to beleive some of the stories, especially given jointed rail, the pounding of heavy steam locos and the heavyweight cars. Ther best one was of a miltiary special out of Crestline to Chicago in the middle of the night arriving Chicago early AM - the claimed/implied speeds must have made the engine almost go airborne.

Separately, I was also allowed by his family to examine the original pay book  (all original handwriting in pencil) of a now deceased Pennsy engineman who signed on in late 1941 in Ft. Wayne. He made a comment in the comment box next to one of his runs out of Chicago which implied he ran Liverpool Jct. to Plymouth at an average speed well >120 mph in a K4s. One wonders.

Don't underestimate the abilities of a well maintained jointed rail track structure to be able to support steam engined trains able to operate safely North of the Century mark.  Comparing railroading of the 40's and today is comparing apples and oranges - the only thing in common is the 4 foot 8.5 inch rail gauge.

[daveklepper]

Remember that in those days PRR had trackworkers manually tightening joint bars, shoveling ballast when required, with the track force overall about five times the manpower on a per-mile basis that now esists among Class I railroads.

And yes, probably, in my memory, speeds were faster with T1s and K4s, the latter often double-headed, than with diesels, although the latter were plenty fast as well.

[UChicagoMatt]

In 1977, we paced the "Broadway Limited" westbound at a good 80 MPH. The old E8s were grinding up the miles west of US 31 where the old Pennsy runs immediately south of US 30. The Broadway was 18 cars long the day.

Things declined quickly after 1985-86 when the line was single-tracked and one could sense the Broadway was on borrowed time on the line and the Valpo Dummies would be cut out as well in just five more years. Most the Pennsy west of Tolleston in Gary is nearly impossible to find. Until this year the slightly narrowed approaches at the Indiana Ship Canal survived and one could see where the Pennsy fleet crossed the water and slid past the steel mills to the east and Standard Oil of Indiana to the west. Lake Junction east of the current Hammond Station is where the PRR headed straight southwest and the NYC turned slightly north. It is amost impossible to see now and the road through Whiting, Gary, etc where the PRR ROW once was is now "Pennsylvania" street. 

Hunt through Doug Davidson's great site and lots of Pennsy photos:

http://thecrhs.org/Images/CR-abandoned-line-East-Chicago-IL