Transcontinental Sleepers

[NP Eddie]

All:

I have one last question about that short lived service.

If a Pullman arrived in Chicago on the PRR and was transferred to the outbound CZ, which railroad's Carmen disconnected the various hoses and where did the PRR switch engine take it to be interchanged with the CBQ? I assume that the CBQ Carmen connected and disconnected the hoses.

Ed Burns

[ndbprr]

I was looking forward to a knowledgeable answer but from what I remember CB&Q and PRR both used Union Station so it should have been a simple transfer. Same with the Mopac car and Texas Special car in St. Louis. There was also a UP car probably through CNW and at lesast one for LA on ATSF that had to get to dearborn station. I recall in all cases psssengers were not allowed to ride the transfers but consider all this as speculation until confirmed by someone else.

[daveklepper]

westbound, the PRR carman would disconnect, the PRR switcher would move the car from the PRR track on which the General or the Broadway had arrived, and place it against a bumping post on CB&Q track, staying all the time within Union Station trackage.  Unless a defect had to be remedied, the car would not be moved to a coach yard.  The PRR carman would connect to hotel steam and electricity at the CB&Q bumping post.  A CB&Q switcher would move most of the CZ consist into an adjacent CB&Q track.  (Remember that the CZ left Chicago in the afternoon well before the evening rush, so tracks were not at a premium.)  The CB&Q carman would then disconnect the sleeper from the bumping post steam and electricity, the CB&Q switcher would place it on the head end of the portion of the CZ consist already in the station, and CB&Q carmen would then make the connections.  The E-units would then back down with the forward part of the CZ, and again the CB&Q carmen would make the connections.

I did not observe the eastbound move, but I suppose it was somewhat similar.  

[daveklepper]

I believe one of the advantages of at least the westbound prr-cz through car was that one could, if one wanted to, remain onboard the car.   This would have been particularly important for the elderly and handicapped.

[rcdrye]

The players list in Chicago was pretty large:

Eastern RRs

PRR - Union (south side)

B&O - Grand Central

NYC - LaSalle (the Wolverine, an MC train, used LaSalle instead of Central)

Western RRs

AT&SF - Dearborn

RI(SP) - LaSalle

CB&Q(D&RGW/WP) - Union (South Side)

MILW(UP/SP) - Union (north side) after 1955

C&NW(UP/SP) - North Western until 1955

The best evidence I have shows that all of these moves used 21st st crossing, with moves to the C&NW and MILW using the Union Station bypass tracks.  The most awkward move was from the B&O to the AT&SF, which involved either a sawback move onto the St Charles airline via 16th St and back down to 21st, or a long swing west via the B&OCT to 14th St and Ash St to get to the AT&SF line to Dearborn.  Cars also might need to be wyed to make sure the aisle was on the left side.

There was no guarantee the railroads involved used steam-equipped switchers.  Of the typically assigned diesels in the 1950s, only AT&SF (RS1s, later H1244TSs) NYC (Lima RS1200), RI (RS2s) and MILW (RS1s) assigned-steam-equipped units regularly. All of those had coach yards a ways away from their terminals.

[daveklepper]

My experience was that the PRR and CB&Q did not worry about direction, aisle on left side, and the through PRR-CZ car did reverse direction in Chicago.  Off course I may be generally wrong and just witnessed an exception, or perhaps niceities of an earlier period were dropped by 1967.  Possibly they decided that allowing passengers to stay on the car was more important. 

[rcdrye]

The aisle side may also have mattered only to the eastern roads.  Not much of the CZ's route was multiple track in the areas traversed at night. 

[ndbprr]

And the scenery was good on either side of the train.

[LAWRENCE SMITH]

Just saw this post - the B+O to Santa Fe transfer may have been made using the "hole on the wall" track under the St charles air line. The air line heads E/W across its Chicago River bridge, and just E of the bridge underneath the air line is a viaduct. You can see it on Google earth. The transfer track ran off of the B+O tracks heading S out of the station just before they turn W to the B+OCT river bridge. The transfer track went under the air line and then connected with C+WI tracks just NE of the 21st st interlocking. I read about 'hole in the wall' on another site - old maps show the track. Google it and see if it pops up.

[rcdrye]

Plenty of info right here on our own site under "Interline passenger moves in Chicago". 

Moves to and from the C&NW from LaSalle (NYC) and Union (PRR) could go a couple of different ways.  PRR moves from Union most likely used the bypass tracks to the north side up to Western Avenue (Tower A-2) and the California Ave coach yard, though they could also go via Union Tower on the south side and the C&NW connection there.  After 1955 transfers would go to the Milwaukee's Western Avenue coach yard, so most if not all moves would be made via the Union Station bypass tracks.

From LaSalle the move onto the SCAL could either go to Union Tower and the Union Station bypass tracks or keep going west to 14th St and Western Avenue, either pausing at California Avenue or going right to C&NW's CPT (North Western Station.  Western Avenue is about three miles west of the Loop and the trip was about the same distance either way.  The advantage of going via 14th St is that the switcher could lead the whole way.

Steam-equipped diesels made most of the moves.  Here's the variety of units involved:

NYC: RS-1, BLH RS1200 (regular and re-engined), GP7

PRR: RS3, GP7, H-16-44

AT&SF: RS1, H12-44TS (only three built)

C&NW: GP7, SD9, RS3, RSD5 (some hammerheads)

CB&Q: GP7, VO1000 (no steam)

MILW: RS1, RS3

B&OCT: RS1

All of the carriers used non-steam-equipped switchers as well, with SW1's the most common.  An amazing amount of activity for very little (if any) revenue.

[rcdrye]

The "Hole in the Wall" track doesn't show on a 1953  C&WI map that includes all of the AT&SF coach yard.  Only a track from LaSalle heading to a CRI&P riverfront platform just south of the SCAL/B&OCT bridges is shown crossing under the SCAL, and no track connections at 18th St.

It still wouldn't have taken much to get from Grand Central to the AT&SF yards.  Up onto the B&OCT bridge to the SCAL connection interlocking, push back across the SCAL bridge to 16th St, pull down the IC Iowa line across 21st St, and push into the Coach Yard (or just keep going to Dearborn...)  Just have to line up the B&OCT bridge tender (also the SCAL tender - even today a CSX job), the 16th St. operator to get across the CRI&P and NYC approach to LaSalle, and the 21st street operator, controlling all six C&WI roads, the PRR, the AT&SF and C&A.  Piece of cake.