Photo of the Day

[KCSfan]

The caption accompanying Tuesday's photo purports to show a Milwaukee Road freight waiting for a Burlington passenger train to cross the diamond at St. Croix, MN tower. I was interested in which of the CB&Q's trains is in the photo but in checking OG's I can't find that the Burlington ran to this location. In the OG index of towns and cities the Milwaukee is listed as the only road serving St. Croix Junction, MN and the Soo as serving St. Croix Jct and St Croix Falls WI. It seems there was no city or town named St. Croix. Only the St. Croix River, State Park and city Of Marine on St. Croix appear in a Google search for this location. Is the photo mis-captioned and, if not, what Burlington line and what train is depicted?

Mark 

[NP Eddie]

Mark:

I can help you with this. St. Croix Tower is in or near Hastings, MN. It is the junction of the X-Milw and X-CBQ with the X-Milw (CP) going south towards Red Wings, MN, Winona, MN, and LaCrosse, WI and points east. The X-CBQ hugs the east bank of the Mississippi River through Alma, WI, Lacrosse, WI and points eastward towards Chicago.

The double track between St. Croix Tower and St. Paul is joint trackage between the BNSF and CP and is dispatched by the BNSF's  East Hump Dispatcher. Ownership is divided between both roads with the CP owning one track for a ways and the BNSF owning the other track. At one point the ownership flip-flops.

The ATCS display of the Twin Cities Terminal will show things better.

I was Roadmaster's Clerk for the BN from 1987-1990. Part of my duties was to learn the in's and out's of the joint trackage in the TC Terminal.

Any questions, just call.

Ed Burns 763-234-9306 or [e-mail]  Please call before 8PM CT.

[NP Eddie]

Mark:

I should add that I did not see the photo of the day what you talked about.

Ed Burns

[AgentKid]

NP Eddie

St. Croix Tower is in or near Hastings, MN.

I figured it would be something like that. RR's usually being first in a location, named the location, but it does not necessarily follow that all the other folks that come later will use the same name. Especially, if the trend was for folks to move over from a nearby location with a different name.

One thing I notice, is some US roads call locations CP "whatever", either a mileage or a name. On the CPR every "Control Point" has its own station name. Within the city limits of Calgary for example, CP has; Alyth, Ogden, Keith, and Bearspaw, which are yards, and; 12 ST. E., Sunalta, Brickburn, and "Calgary", which it seems on US roads would be CP "something".

One the other hand, the oil industry here adopted the original CP, CNor, and GTP station names for all of their field names. When I first was learning to read I grabbed everything I could to practice on, and one of the things I found was Dad's ETT's. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that memorizing those station names would have such an impact on learning my first accounting job. Knowing the locations of those fields was a huge benefit, in that it enabled me to learn all of the other aspects of my job without having to learn where everything was.

BTW, that was a great photo, you can access it from the Classic Trains home page.

Bruce

[NP Eddie]

ALL:

I viewed the photo. The CBQ passenger train could be any of the many the "Q" had. Also, I believe that the trackage has since been re-configured.

I was about 15 or 16 and on a CBQ 5632 Minnesota Rail Fans trip between Minneapolis and Lacrosse. We were due back about 7PM or so that Sunday night.

BUT---a MILW freight train derailed in the plant at St. Croix and tore a lot of trackage up!!!  Well--we were side tracked and two or three CBQ passenger trains passed us. We did get into Minneapolis about 7AM Monday! Needless to say, I stayed home from high school that Monday.  Quite an adventure.

Ed Burns   763-2334-9306 before 8PM CT

[KCSfan]

Thanks for the info Eddie. The photo shows the CB&Q line to be single track and that was one of the things that confused me. I always thought the Burlington was double tracked between Chicago and the Twin Cities but maybe I've been wrong about that.

Mark

[NP Eddie]

Mark:

Some of the former CBQ trackage is double track and some is single track, especially west of Savanna, Ill. This is due to the close proximity of the side of the bluffs to the Mississippi River.

The "Achilies" heel of both the former CBQ and former MILW is the Mississippi River as both lines hug the for a long way.

When the Mississippi floods, the usual route is the X-CNW (UP) route east of St. Paul into Wisconsin.

Any questions, please call or e-mail off list at [e-mail]

Ed Burns

763-234-9306

[NP Eddie]

Mark:

I have additional information for you. Yesterday I spoke with Mike DeRosa, a retired BN-BNSF Section Foreman from St. Paul.

He said that there were two diamonds at St. Croix. Seeing autos on the MILW freight train indicates that that train is heading west off the MILW, so that would make the CBQ train heading west off the CBQ and onto the joint line. I don't have knowledge of the exact track layout at that time, but I assume that both lines came together behind the photographer. The dispatching office was at Newport, MN, a southeastern suburb of St. Paul. That is the point where the RI joined the joint line. Through an old agreement, the MILW people filled the first and third dispatching shifts, with the CBQ filling the second shift and presumable the relief job. Timetables of the joint MILW/CBQ are very rare, but if you visit the BN/BNSF Historical Society web page you will find them.

I believe that the CTC was installed in the 1990's. The ATCS layout for the Twin Cities east will display the current trackage.

Any questions??

Ed Burns

763-234-9306 before 8PM CT.

[Deggesty]

The St. Croix River forms a part of the boundary between Minnesota and Wisconsin. Thus, the tower at that point is properly named.