An all (or nearly) all-Budd lightwieight consist, ended with a round-end observation, but pulled by a non-streamlined (but very handsome, in my opnion) Niagra. Is it a streamliner?
Was the Powhattan Arrow still a streamliner when a GP-9 replaced the J?
How about the Broadway Limited behind two K-4's?
And the Southerner when a PS-4 happened to substitute for its usual E-6 A-unit?
Sounds like nitpicking or splitting hairs to me. The same could be said of the "South Wind" and the "Dixie Flagler" with steam locomotives of varying degrees of streamlining based on over which railroad the train was operating.
But splitting hairs can be enjoyable, and I would say that if the steam locomotive is streamlined to any real degree, the train remains a streamliner. Even if the paint doesn't match.
Santa Fe's Chief was marketed as a streamliner after being upgraded to lightweight equipment, but was usually powered by one of the massive 4-8-4s in the 1940s. Can it be said that it has to do more with the coaches than the power?
Possibly
Question also, in this current issue of Classic Trains Dave Ingles photo of the Burlington's Morning Zephyr on page 76 shows a train that includes NP and MP cars instead of solid stainless steel ones. Did the Zephyr lose its streamliner status that day?
Lightweight cars? still a streamliner.
Johnny
As long as the roof line isn't interrupted, I agree. Similarly, IC streamliners routiely included rebuilt heavyweights retaining their six-wheel trucks (diners and lounges), but the roof line was altered to match the lightweigts, and only a railfan or railroader would notice they were heavywieghts. But what about the original Tennesean? E-units or streamlined steam up front, but the Pullmans were silver-painted heavyweights!
Yes, when the Tennessean was inaugurated, the Southern had no lightweight sleepers. In the mid-fifties, the through sleepers were lightweight 14-4's--and the car(s) that ran west of Bristol were heavyweight--I recall seeing a heavyweight (not painted to give the illusion) lettered for the Rio Grande. I do not remember, but if there were express and/or mail storage cars in the consist, they were also heavyweight.
And in later years, with train consolidations, many "stramliiners" carried odd-shaped head-end cars righ behind the E or F or PA units, in front of the lightweight cars. The New Haven had wood-sided baggage cars running into GCT until some point in 1955. They then bought some second-hand lightwieght cars.
The B&O's Capitol Limited, National Limited and Cincinnatian were all considered Streamliners and all consisted of rebuilt heavyweight equipment that was redesigned to have the exterior form of lightweight equipment. The Capitol and National were diesel powered and the Cincinnatian was powered by streamlined steam power. Subsequent to their 'streamlining' in the late 30's, the Capitol and National received a number of pieces of lightweight equipment until their demise with the coming of Amtrak.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I guess Acelas could be considered streamliners today. Other than that, the last was the Rio Grande Zephyr.
"Streamliner" is a publicity thing. RR passenger trains made up of newer lightweight cars were called "streamliners" by the railroads because it sounded better to the public in the 1930's and 40's when everything from airplanes to cars to toasters were streamlined or 'streamstyled' to look cool and modern. If a railroad called a train a "streamliner" then it was a streamliner, whether it had just lightweight cars, or some heavyweights, or steam up front, or whatever.
Did the NYO&W cal their Mountanair a streamliner?
I believe that the "Texas Chief" was still listed in the Santa Fe public timetable as streamlined even after U28CG's were assigned as power.
But how different was the passengers' esperience in the baautifully remodeled interiors of the Santa Fe's air-conditioned, reclining-seat, large restrooms, six-wheel-truck fish-belly heavyweight coaches?
I remember when NYC re-equipped the 20th Century Limited (1948?) it was advertised as the latest thing in streamliners. When I actually saw it, with back-to-back A units on the point, I was struck by the obvious mismatch in roof lines caused by the trailing unit's cab. How DARE they call that notched stick a streamliner?
As I got older, I also got more tolerant.
Chuck
Well, variety is the spice of life, but opinions are all over the map here. The term "streamlined" was used to describe all kinds of art deco objects and structures, and has little or nothing to do with streamlined trains. When it comes to trains, it is the train itself that matters....the locomotive does not have to be streamlined for the train to be a streamliner...it is about the equipment of that train. Yes, the nitpickers can have a field day here because I think there are exceptions....first off, many streamliners had heavyweight head end equipment, also there were modernized heavyweight cars incorporated into many streamliners. That being said, at the beginning of the streamliner era, starting with the UP 10000 and the CB&Q Pioneer Zephyr, railroads did make the effort to provide matched sets for their streamliners....something that quickly disappeared as trains were consolidated or discontinued, and dedicated trainsets were scattered to the winds. That process started sometime in the '50s. AA
I would say when "streamliner" was first used in the 1930's that it at least strongly implied that the train was made up of streamlined lightweight passenger cars, with diesels or streamlined steam providing power. From a passenger point of view, I suspect the cars mattered much more than the engines, so lightweight air conditioned cars that were used by passengers qualified the train as "streamlined" to the average passenger. To a railfan, having non-streamlined steam at the point might disqualify it....
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