New York Ferry Boats

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New York Ferry Boats
Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 27, 2014 3:11 AM

,deleted

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Posted by henry6 on Thursday, March 27, 2014 4:12 PM

I am finding your story to Flieshmans deleted in two places...but don't know why.  I did read it and tried to respond and I got to the blank page indicating "deleted".  But I will try to make a comment here.  Several things...in a employee timetable I found speed limits on the U&D to be 55 with curves at 50.  A ride east out of Arkville back in the 80s I was impressed with the superelevated curves and speed limit signs at 50.  I also wanted to point out that your ride(s) on the West Shore's Weehawken Ferry was propelled  by steam, too; I think the boat service was pulled instead of being dieselized.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, March 28, 2014 1:22 AM

For some unkown reason, when I tried to correct spelling in the post, it got posted, and then the one with corrected spelling got posted, so I wished to delete the one with the spelling mistaked.   Appreciate your comments on my trip.  Yes, most NYC-area ferry boats were steam powered in 1947.  I am not sure if the Central ever switched to diesel before giving up the service.

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Posted by henry6 on Friday, March 28, 2014 7:56 AM

They were the last fleet to be steam and never made it to diesel.  That's why we'd go out of our way to ride.  Dad parked the car in the gangway and we'd walk over to the open door and watch and listen to those steam engines with awe.  The last railroad ferries, were by the end,  the EL's, both diesels, in 1967.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by efftenxrfe on Saturday, March 29, 2014 6:51 PM

Did the great Lakes car ferries sail after 1967?

I realize the thread is about NY harbor boats, but "the last railroad ferries" includes other waters.

Fond memories of the CNJ, DL&W, Erie  and NYC, heck even the Staten Island Nickle ride, but the railroad ferries were free rides....just join the flood of people sailing on the ferries to connect to or from trains in Jersey....Hudson Tubes, NY Subways....cheap....1950's teenage railfanning in N'Yawk Hah'buh!

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Posted by henry6 on Saturday, March 29, 2014 7:45 PM

efftenxrfe

Did the great Lakes car ferries sail after 1967?

I realize the thread is about NY harbor boats, but "the last railroad ferries" includes other waters.

Fond memories of the CNJ, DL&W, Erie  and NYC, heck even the Staten Island Nickle ride, but the railroad ferries were free rides....just join the flood of people sailing on the ferries to connect to or from trains in Jersey....Hudson Tubes, NY Subways....cheap....1950's teenage railfanning in N'Yawk Hah'buh!

I can only address NY Harbor water traffic.  Note that today the Staten Island Ferry is a free ride but that it did go well up beyond a nickle at one point.  And note further that railroad ferries were not free rides, or at least were not supposed to be.  Passengers  going to NYC from NJ presumably had tickets reading "to New York" rather than just the NJ terminal and thus walked through the waiting rooms and terminal passages to reach the ferries.  Those not holding tickets were expected to go through the ferry's street entrance and pay as did motor vehicle traffic.  Of course many went to the train waiting room then to the ferry skipping paying the fare. Coming to NJ from NYC, one had to pay a fare for the ferry or buy or show a train ticket from NYC in order to ride.  Only during crowded rush hours and getting in the middle of the crowd could one probably avoid the ferry ticket fare.  Often it was only 25 cents but that could be a lot of money to some, especially young teenagers.  

Great Lakes car ferries were quite different and not like NYC area commuter ferries either in service or in design. They cannot be compared.  

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by MidlandMike on Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:14 PM

efftenxrfe

Did the great Lakes car ferries sail after 1967?

...

Yes.  The GT ferry out of Grand Haven, Mich ran up until the mid 70s.  The AA ferries out of Frankfort, and  the C&O ferries out of Ludington ran until the early 80s.  These carferries carried rail cars, autos, and passengers across Lake Michigan.  However, the ferries out of Ludington continued on after the C&O got out of the business, and this summer the Badger is scheduled to haul autos and passengers.  It's the last of the original carferries still running.  It's steam powered, but because it dumps its coal ashes into the lake, it has run afoul of environmental laws, plus the boat is showing its age.  If you are hoping to ride, don't delay.

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Posted by K4sPRR on Sunday, March 30, 2014 7:24 AM

I rode the C&O Ferry out of Ludington across Lake Michigan in the 1960's.  Got there early in the morning and had breakfast while bopping over to Wisconsin.  What I thought  was neat, the china and sliverware used on the boat was china from discontinued passenger trains.  Recall riding the Badger once when the waters were really rough, rocked really bad so I avoided breakfast.  Would have been a waste of money!Smile 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, March 30, 2014 8:40 PM

I forgot a couple of other smaller late Great Lakes carferry operations.  The Mackinac Ttransportation Co carried rail cars on the Cheif  Wawatam between the surviving lines to the tip of Michigan's Lower Peninsular at Mackinaw City, to the Soo Line in the Upper Peninsular until 1984.  There were also carferries or barges to carry oversized rail cars across the Detroit River into the 90s.

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Posted by efftenxrfe on Monday, March 31, 2014 8:06 PM

There's been a security breech...."Only by getting in the middle of a crowd during rush hour".....dang it, the secret's out. Now nobody will be able to dupe those gatekeepers' at Cortland St or 42nd St to get free rides on the ferries.

The ferries were operating as connections to, or from, trains throughout the day and would accumulate a bunch of people at the boarding gates, the bunch being in trainload size.....melding in:  no problem.

Those gatekeepers opened them when the boat's arriving passengers were off: then ensued a civilized stampede to load the embarkers.

Now, thanks to this intel' breech, (leak), teenage railfans rides to get to cross-Hudson photography locations....Shot Down!

Those NJ riverside terminals don''t (didn't )  serve local residents....cuz'  there weren't any; it was a harbor-terminal, industrial, not residential, area. It served the trains from the 'burbs and further points west, north and south.

Would some one steal a ride to get some train photos? nahh!  no way...... 

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Posted by efftenxrfe on Monday, March 31, 2014 9:41 PM

Should have respected with gratitude those who supported that  RR. ferries on the Great Lakes were apples to apples, comparatively, to NY harbor ops.

They, on the Lakes, and they, in the harbors,

I seemed to have disrespected the statement that NY Harbor differed from an apples to apples comparison with Great Lake' ops....

So be it.

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, March 31, 2014 11:45 PM

As a teenager, I volunteered Monday evenings to do office work at Electric RR's Association Hq upstairs of the DL&W term., space shared with NY Soc. of Model Engineers and their marvelous O-gauge layout.  After dinner could get there for free by using my Board of Ed bus pass on the M10 bus down to Barcley Street, and then melding with the crowd boarding the Ferry.  Coming back, could do the same, but a nickle for the subway got me home a lot faster with the headway on the bus much longer.  No one bothered to check for fares on the Manhatten-bound boat, entrance; they assumed you had arrived on a train.  But Harold Geissenheimer, Ronald Perente, John Stern, Bill Watson, and Herman Rinke usually opted to use the H&M (now PATH), and I had the choice of spending an extra dime and being with friends or enjoying the boat ride for free but alone.

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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, April 01, 2014 8:05 AM

efftenxrfe

There's been a security breech...."Only by getting in the middle of a crowd during rush hour".....dang it, the secret's out. Now nobody will be able to dupe those gatekeepers' at Cortland St or 42nd St to get free rides on the ferries.

The ferries were operating as connections to, or from, trains throughout the day and would accumulate a bunch of people at the boarding gates, the bunch being in trainload size.....melding in:  no problem.

Those gatekeepers opened them when the boat's arriving passengers were off: then ensued a civilized stampede to load the embarkers.

Now, thanks to this intel' breech, (leak), teenage railfans rides to get to cross-Hudson photography locations....Shot Down!

Those NJ riverside terminals don''t (didn't )  serve local residents....cuz'  there weren't any; it was a harbor-terminal, industrial, not residential, area. It served the trains from the 'burbs and further points west, north and south.

Would some one steal a ride to get some train photos? nahh!  no way...... 

Locals did indeed take the freebie ferry to NY as often as they needed.  So they got a half fare round trip; But if they were lucky enough to be returning the the Jersey side at rush hour, they could get in the middle of the waiting room crowd and get pushed aboard by the mob and get a free ride back.  Of course as time moved on and the crowds got smaller, it became more difficult to become invisible.

RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, April 02, 2014 10:47 AM

In the period 1947-1949, no problem on the DL&W boat around 7:30pm monday evenings.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, April 04, 2014 9:54 AM

henry6

The last railroad ferries, were by the end,  the EL's, both diesels, in 1967.

The ferry boat Lackawanna was dieselized in 1949. The other E-L ferries, Scranton, Binghamton, Pocono, remained steam powered up to the end of ferry service in 1967.

Mark

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Posted by Great Western on Friday, April 04, 2014 4:02 PM

The poor old SS. Badger has had an awful lot of hassle regarding the ashes it deposits into the lake.  But so far it seems to have gotten a reprieve.

It seems a grand vessel and it would be sad to see it confined to a dry dock or similar.

http://www.ssbadger.com/

http://www.ssbadger.com/images-videos/videos/

 

 

 

 

Alan, Oliver & North Fork Railroad

https://www.buckfast.org.uk/

If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. Lewis Carroll English author & recreational mathematician (1832 - 1898)

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Posted by narig01 on Sunday, April 20, 2014 6:07 PM
Penn Central was stuck with a car ferry across the Mackinaw Straights. It turned into a real albatross. PC and predecessor (not sure which railroad) filed for abandonment when the bridge opened. The ICC said they had to keep running the ferry. The ICC wouldn't even allow a tug and barge operation. Then the Coast Guard insisted on plating
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Posted by narig01 on Sunday, April 20, 2014 6:12 PM
Continued,
Then the Coast Guard insisted on replanting the hull. Then the state of Michigan insisted on an updated power plant that would pollute less (but burn more fuel) .
I the vessel was the Chief Wawatam. Oh yes the railroad the New York Central.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Chief_Wawatam

Rgds IGN
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Posted by narig01 on Sunday, April 20, 2014 6:14 PM
That should have read. "the Coast Guard insisted on REPLATING the hull "

Thx IGN
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Posted by narig01 on Sunday, April 20, 2014 6:23 PM
Last note. I need to get another PC. This tablet is giving me all kinds of typos.
Also my apologies for straying afield.

Thx IGN
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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, April 20, 2014 7:41 PM

The Chief Wawatum was owned by the NYC and PRR (and the Soo) before PC days.  The replacement was to be a tug-barge.  It was being built in Michigan, but it's construction company was caught up in the Wedtech scandal of the 80s.  The tug was never completed, and the Michigan DOT which was involved in the financing gave up on it.  Soo abandoned the branch to the Mackinac Straits, and the 2 PC lines were bought by the state, and have also been cut back from Mackinac.

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, April 21, 2014 8:56 AM

Don't know if this helps, but within the last year the New York Central System Historical Society's "Headlight" magazine has run a couple of articles on NYC's tugs and ferries in the New York City area.

Stix
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Posted by narig01 on Sunday, April 27, 2014 2:23 AM
I almost forgot this. The website nycsubway.org posted an article recently on the West of Hudson Passenger Terminals. FYI

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/West_of_Hudson_Passenger_Terminals

Thx IGN
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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, April 27, 2014 4:07 AM

terrific, now if someone can activate it to make it easier to use

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, April 27, 2014 5:50 AM

How about this for a list of passenger terminals west of the Hudson?

(This is narig01's link, activated per your request.)

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, April 27, 2014 2:54 PM
While not specifically on topic- There are a few photographs in the 'PATH' section on that site of the H&M section of Exchange Place for those interested, as well as other excellent pictures.
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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, February 08, 2018 2:15 PM

Remembrance of the ferry service in the New York and Philadelphia areas  brings back many memories of my youth.

My first ferry trip (as per my parents) was on the ferry from the Hook of Holland to England after we left Vienna in Msrch of 1939;  I was two years old at the time.  I have no memories of yis journey from Vienna to Scarborough in Yorkshire, England;  according to my parents I slept through most of it.

In November of 1939 we arrived in the United States.  My mother and I stayed with her Aunt and Uncle in Canarsie;  my father and maternal grandfather stayed wirh another of my mothers aunt and uncle in East New York; and my two grandmothers stayed with a third of my mothers aunts and uncles.  After searching a railroad flat on Kingston Avenue above an A & P was found and all six of us moved in (it was very crowded).

My father and grandfather looked for work to pay the rent and purchase food and clothing.  At the same time my father was exploring New York City so as to learn what was where and how to get there.  When not working he would take with him.  On the Fulton Street El there were signs saying that trains went to the Fulton Ferry.  When we went there. there was no ferry anymore. 

In these travels we found three ferry services to the battery in Manhattan: Atlantic Basin,  39th Street,  and 69th Street.  We never rode the Atlantic Basin Ferry. 

My family soon found a larger apartment on the second floor of 1200 Sterling Place at the inersection of Sterling Place and Albany Avenue.  Exploration continued on Sundays and when not working.  We rode the Fifth Avenue, Fulton, Jamaica, Lexington, and Myrtle Avenue Els.  In addition with the 1940 consolidation of rapid transit in New York city we were able to transfer between what had been independent operations.

In 1942 my father got permanent employment in the Bronx.  We soon relocated to Manhattan where my grandfather reestablished the upholstery business he had in Vienna.  In addition my mother was employed by a former employee of hers in the chid care field in Manhattan.  Traveling around Manhattan I learned about and eventually traveled on all the ferry ines. 

As I recall these were:  92nd Street - Astoria,  67th Street - WElfare Island, Dykman Street - Fort Lee, NJ,  125th Street - Edgewater, NJ,  West Shore 42nd Street - Weehawken, NJ,  Electric Ferry 30th Street - Hoboken, NJ,  Lackawana 23rd Street - Hoboken, NJ,  Lackawana Christopher Street - Hoboken,  Erie Chamber Street -Jersey City,  Lackawanna Barkley Street - Hoboken,  Central Railroad of NJ - Jersey City, and the three ferry lines from the Battery to Brooklyn and St George on Staten Island. 

It took about ten years before I rode the five Staten Island ferry services; St George to 39th Street, St George to 69th Street, and the three small services to New Jersey: Perth Amboy, Elizabeth and Bayonne.

Heading north up the Hudson I was a frequent user of the Yonkers Ferry to Alpine as this plus a long walk was the most economical way to the Alpine Scout Camp.  When I bought my first car a 1940 Studebaker I traveled on the endangered Newburgh - Beacon Ferry, and the Kingston - Rhinebeck Ferry.

In 1944 my parents wanted a vacation of their own and I was to spend several weeks at Camp Dark Water in south central New Jersey.  My took me to the camp by train from Pennsylvania Station, then to the Delaware River and a ferry to Camden followed by a train ride and a taxi.  At the camp she found out that Quacker Cit bus service ran quite oftenfrom Manhattan past the camp.  She went home that way and several weeks later that is how I got home.

I have ridden ferry service in both other parts of the United States and in Canada, but none can equal some of the ferry rides in New York City where all are gone except The Battery - St George,
______________________

Dave,  No problem  you can forward my comments to any and all.
  On reviewing what I wrote I left out what perhaps was the best railroad ferry ride;  the West Shore - Weehawken service from Cortland Street.  This took between half an hour to 45 minutes depending on the tide and river traffic.  In addition I never rode the two services across Jamaica Bay to the Rockaway Peninsula;  one from Brooklyn the other from Queens.  These like the Astoria service were discontinued as World War 2 economey measures.  The single deck ships where stored at a pier on Staten Island until he mid 1950s.
  As regards the Astoria Ferry I only rode it once in I believe was either 1940 or 41.  I know we got there walking from the 86th Street and Lexington Avenue IRT station.

Henry Deutch   hhdeutch@juno.com
 

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:50 PM

I only rode 3 NY ferries.  In th late 50s I rode the Brooklyn-Staten Island and the Staten Island-Battery ferries (did you mention these two under a different name?).  Of course the Brooklyn ferry was soon supplanted by the Verrazano Narrows Bridge

In 2002 I took the Hoboken to the World Trade Center area ferry.  I think this was a relatively new service.  I also see they have a Long Island City-Manhattan service.

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, February 09, 2018 12:24 AM

Doesn't Arthur Imperatore's "Port Imperial" ferry still run a couple of routes, from the general Edgewater area east to a couple of logical Manhattan destinations?

(Thereupon hangs something of a bittersweet tale.  The British Virgin Islands had something of a trade agreement with the USSR, resulting in things like one-dollar bottles of Stolichnaya yellow-label at the duty-free shop and ... one of those lake hydrofoils that looks like a chopped '57 Chevy on top of a streamlined passenger car.  The latter had suffered an engine failure, alloy block parts had been brought up on deck where they very promptly corroded, and that was that.  I proposed that we bring the boat up, fit it with banking foils, and run it from Alpine and Edgewater to a couple of stops around the tip of Manhattan.  When this produced a high enough take rate, buy a couple of proper high-speed hydrofoil cats, and rebuild the original into a private yacht second to none.  This plan was enhanced when it turned out that the asking price was something on the order of $2400 American...

Alas! this was right at the point in the Carter Administration when they cracked down on all things Russian, and Raketa went south to become a lunch counter in St. Lucia ... I really don't think I want to know what finally became of her.  Would have been an even greater stir than using T1 5150 in local New Jersey commuter service, though!  Here is the effect:

The Beacon-Newburgh ferry was still very much in operation a couple of years ago, and I think still is.

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Posted by wanswheel on Friday, February 09, 2018 1:48 AM

KCSfan
henry6

The last railroad ferries, were by the end,  the EL's, both diesels, in 1967.

The ferry boat Lackawanna was dieselized in 1949. The other E-L ferries, Scranton, Binghamton, Pocono, remained steam powered up to the end of ferry service in 1967.

Mark

Good old Mark. (And good old Henry, too, of course.) Mark lived in Madison, NJ on the Lackawanna, for four years he said, starting in 1961, commuted to his job at Western Electric Co., perhaps or even probably at their new headquarters building at 222 Broadway. He had the option taking the H&M to Hudson Terminal or the ferry to Barclay Street, and did both many times I bet. 

http://www.skyscrapercenter.com/new-york-city/222-broadway/11821

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