Akron Canton & Youngstown

[1oldgoat]

It's time for a thread dedicated to "Ohio's Road of Service" 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The only "Road of Service" with which I'm familiar was the North Shore Line.

If I read correctly many years ago, AC&Y did not serve any sizable towns in Ohio that weren't already served by another road.  I would think that a situation like that would have left AC&Y teetering at the edge of bankruptcy for most of its existence.

[ACY Tom]

I didn't realize until now that this thread had actually started. I'm about a day behind the times. You're right about the nature of the small towns the AC&Y served. They were mostly agricultural and they did contribute some traffic, but if service to these towns had been the road's principal livelihood, it never would have survived. Before 1920, the track was the Northern Ohio, owned by the Lake Erie & Western, which was in turn controlled by the NYC, which didn't really want anything to do with it. The AC&Y at that time was a 7+ mile switching road in Akron that connected Goodyear with the B&O, PRR, Erie, W&LE, and the inconsequential N.O. The NYC sold the LE&W to NKP, but nobody seemed to want the N.O. The AC&Y realized that the N.O. intersected every major trunk line in Ohio. The only large RR's it missed were the N&W, the Wabash, and the B&LE. So the AC&Y leased, and later purchased, the N.O. and began a gradual process of improvement. This began at the east end (Akron and Mogadore) and gradually worked west to Delphos. The track improvements allowed purchase of new and larger locomotives, and by WWII the standard road power consisted of modern copies of light USRA 2-8-2's, supplemented by 2-8-0's. Six 0-8-0's, essentially copies of the USRA design, worked Brittain Yard in East Akron. Improvement of the AC&Y permitted Goodyear and other Akron-based manufacturers to access the entire scope of the national RR system without being limited to one or two local connections. From east to west, the road connected with W&LE at Mogadore; Erie, PRR, and B&O in Akron; B&O in Medina, W&LE in Spencer (direct access to Toledo); Big 4 in New London (access to Cleveland and points east on the NYC System, plus access to Columbus, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, St. Louis & points SE); B&O at Plymouth; PRR at New Washington (direct access to Toledo); PRR at Chatfield; T&OC (NYC System) at Sycamore; C&O and Big 4 at Carey; T&OC at Arlington; NKP (LE&W) at Bluffton (a direct shot to St. Louis & Southwestern connections; B&O at Columbus Grove; DT&I at Columbus Grove (preferred route for tires & wheel rims from Akron to Detroit); NKP again at Delphos (another good routing to St. Louis); and, lastly, a rather minor interchange with PRR at Delphos. In its earliest years the AC&Y was projected to serve all the towns in its name; but this plan was dropped when analysis indicated that such expansion would not be financially beneficial. AC&Y relied on connections with other, established RR's to serve these communities. I don't want to go on too long, but I'll just point out 2 very telling elements of AC&Y's expedited service. First was well casings from Youngstown Sheet & Tube to Southwestern oil fields. This traffic came from Youngstown on B&O or Erie, ran AC&Y to Bluffton or Delphos, then NKP to St. Louis where it was forwarded by Southwestern RR's. Another was traffic that came from the East on W&LE, interchanged to AC&Y at Spencer, then dropped at Bluffton to be sent west to St. Louis on NKP. This saved time by bypassing the NKP's Bellevue yard. OK. I'm done for now. Thanks.

[K4sPRR]

It was due to the connections with so many other major rail lines that ACY mentioned, the road maintained quite a profitable existance interchanging merchandise.

[Anonymous]

Thanks 1OldGoat for starting this thread.  Most Outlanders like me only know the AC&Y from the fancy yellow boxcars with fire engine red lettering that were manufactured in the 60s, e.i. All Nation's O scale version and Athearn's HO model.  I trust this thread will produce some interesting information to educate me on a little road that provided yeoman service to its customers.  What's in a name?  AC&Y wasn't the only railroad that didn't serve its namesake towns or cities as we all know.  Perhaps the most abused name was "& Pacific".  It sounded good when the founders were trying to get financial support to start construction.

But PLEASE don't start listing the names of your favorite hometown lines here and let us all try to keep this thread as AC&Y as possible.  Yes, I'm guilty as charged too on the Midland Continental thread!  Tar & Feather me if you must but please don't make me eat crow!  Exceptions of course are if foreign locomotives or equipment was operated on the AC&Y or purchased outright by the line.  I'm sure all will agree that this must be mentioned here for obvious reasons.

 

[1oldgoat]

Wow, I'm pleasantly surprised that this thread has been so well recieved just a few days after its inception.  Thanks to all who have contriuted.

Here's what I can add: Akron was the "Rubber Capitol of the World"  Goodyear, Firestone, BF Goodrich, General and Seiberling all had HQs and plants in or around Akron. The AC&Y was the favored route to get them rolling out of town due to the many connections previously listed.  Traffic headed east was generally handed over to the Erie, PRR and B&O (number of cars interchanged in that order).  The AC&Y main offices were also in Akron, so the officers of the AC&Y knew all the top people at the tire companies.  And the road gave their friends great service, hence the moniker "Ohio's Road of Service".  The reason N&W gave them the autonomy the other roads they swept up in the '64 merger was to preserve the feeling that it was a local "home" road.  A case of superb "branding" long before that word was coined.

As mentioned, ACY-DTI was a popular routing for tires headed for Detroit.  Both were Ohio (DT&I mostly so) small Class 1 carriers (back when the ICC threashold for a Class 1 was $1M in revenue annually.  Since both lines were large short-lines whith few branch lines, the tires were a large chunk of their traffic and protected it so.  As some of you know, Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone (along with Thomas Edison) were close friends (even went camping together) so all Fords had Firestone tires, which went via the aforementioned routing.  By the way, tires were the reason the AC&Y purchased so many used 50 foot outside braced boxcars- most with double doors.  Tires were light but bulky so a car with just a 40ton capacity was good enough.  There were still plenty of these cars availble at low prices in the 50s.  AC&Y was big on second hand and leased cars - Mather boxcars, ex L&N off-side and N&W rib-side hoppers, and a good number of used 40' steel boxcars (ex NH,and others) through A.A. Morrison and US Railway Equipment. (These were the yellow 40 footers with the large red ACY).

The road also had a lot of "overhead" traffic.  I was a yard clerk for the E-L in Akron in '68-'69.  There werenot a few waybills for cars coming from points west of Chicago headed to the East Coast (a good amount of lumber from the Pacific Northwest).  I never figured out why the bigger roads would short haul this traffic when it could have gone further East on their road.  Someone told me it was because the AC&Y would hold cars while the shippers lined up buyers for the lading (again, a lot of lumber).  This is something the Roscoe, Snyder & Pacific also did. (Another interesting and under examined shortline, as well as one of the many "& Pacific" roads that never came close to the West Coast.)

The E-L did a lot of interchange with AC&Y- ususally 50-60 cars each day.  Aside from tires and mixed freight, there was a lot of limestone from Carey destined for stell mills mostly in Youngstown. Aside from FM H16-44s, H20-44s and Alco S-2s, they had one RS-1 (#102).  I never saw it myself, and it wasn't until the late 90s that I even saw a photo of it.

Good lord that's enough of my yammering.  Spread the word about this thread.  The more the merrier, and the more info we'll get!

Highball the gate!

OS

1oldgoat

[1oldgoat]

As the person who started this thread, I would like to encourage folks to also check out the AC&Y Historical Society and their web site at: www.acyhs.org . They have a fine site with a lot of info (and have a good number of vintage photos). Their magazine that s informative and a joy to read. The ACYHS has a new format- it's free! However, they accept donations and I'll send mine in when my RR retirement check is posted on Monday. The ACYHS has a nicer site that some of the other HS sites for considerably larger carriers. Check it out and support this fine organization and the excellent job they do!

[ACY Tom]

Thanks for the plug, oldgoat. The AC&YHS can use all the publicity it can get. We just aren't quite as big as some of those other Societies, so we've had to make do to a certain extent. A lot of questions will be answered when the book comes out. Our web site has a few errors, but it's mostly reliable. Some time we'll have to address those mistakes. The Society consists mostly of folks who are natives of the area --- especially Akron, which has far more population than any other town on the line. Recently we had a new fellow join. He lives in Wales, for cryin' out loud! I've never heard anybody say he does not like the AC&Y (except maybe a competitor). I'll address a couple items that were brought up. YELLOW BOCARS were introduced on AC&Y in 1962 when AC&Y leased 260 40' ex-NH PS-1's through U.S. Railway Eqpt. Co. Some older cars were repainted to match and larger yellow cars followed SECOND-HAND ENGINES: The web site has a steam roster that tells about quite a few. AC&Y started 0ut with 5 brand new Lima 0-6-0's when it was just a little local switching operation. After the road obtained the Northern Ohio in 1920, they bought 5 new Baldwin 2-8-0's and 2 Brooks 0-8-0's (USRA copies). With the N.O., they got title to a bunch of ancient 2-6-0's which didn't last long. Then came about a half dozen Big Four 2-8-0's and about a dozen ex-NKP class P 4-6-0's, 2 of which went to the Midland Continental eventually. In the mid-late '20's, they bought 2 more new 0-8-0's and 4 2-8-2's from Lima, plus a used 0-8-0 from Upper Merion & Plymouth. In the late '30's they got another used 0-8-0 from the E. A. Staley Co. in Illinois. When WWII started in Europe, the economy of industrial Ohio heated up and AC&Y bought 2 more modern light 2-8-2's just before we got into it, and one more just before it ended. The road wanted to dieselize, but some of the older eqpt. was being retired & they couldn't wait for the diesel builders, so they bought 4 more 2-8-2's from the NKP. I believe the ex-L&N hoppers were all ribbed-sided cars (USRA twins or clones). But AC&Y did have some very unusual ex-L.V. hoppers that looked like a cross between a stake-side car and an offset. They even used old iron ore jennies in dolomite service for a while. As for other interesting gee-whiz facts, they had a McKeen Motor Car; they probably built the first bay window cabooses in North America (maybe in the world); they were International Car Co.'s first customer for new steel cabooses after WWII; and they ran Ohio's last mixed train. When they dropped passenger service, they still needed to run that train but had no cabooses for it. So they repainted the passenger cars from green to red, renumbered them as cabooses, and ran them as cabs for about 6 years! Is that resourceful or what?

[Anonymous]

I need to submit this non-ACY item but it is in line with The Road of Service.  In 1962, Ed Bunch, Frisco off-line traffic agent in Tampa, FL, got a request from a Florida customer, Logan Lumber in Tampa, that they couldn't take the car when it was due because their short spur on Rome Avenue was full.  Ed rerouted the car over several shortlines including an up and back down trip on the Mississippian RR to buy time for the customer.  Everybody knows the Frisco's boxcar slogan "Southeast...Southwest...Ship IT on the Frisco!"  This was the pride, in many cases, a silent pride, shared by railroaders across the USA regardless of size.  From mudhop to traffic rep, engineer to conductor, this is the very reason my best buddy (RIP) and I went railroading.  We wanted to join this huge family of dedicated men and women, and all, for the most part, were good old boys and girls!

The lady ticket agent at Tampa Union Station presented me with my first copy of the Official Guide in the fall of '62.  They were next to  impossble to obtain including many small depots on many railroads.  Man, I was in Tall Cotton and Christmas came early that year!  I can tell that the AC&Y was this kind of railroad and why it has so many dedicated members.  My current drawback is the unfair expensive US Postal Service's overseas postage if I join becasue of the amount of my retirement that goes for medication for my wife and I.  I hope this will change.  The "Service" needs to be dropped from US Postal by the way!

Keep up the great work and keep the spirit of The Road of Service alive!

[Anonymous]

I visited the AC&YHS site and have registered for membership since I won't get ripped off by the US Postal Service.  It might still get rejected since I am a Dallas born Texan and my mouth is located due south under a bulls tail!  I live in Germany and was stationed here from 1965-1967 with the US Army Transportation Corps.  I attended the USATC at Ft. Eustus, VA, during the fall of '64.  I met and became friends with a guy from Cleveland.  We came to Germany together and though Myron isn't a railfan as such does like trains and we are still in contact with each other.  My cousin's x-husband hails from Indiana and happens to be a railfan and we are in contact with each other too.  He's big on the NKP! 

So, for better or worse, I will hopefully be accepted as a member in good standing with the AC&YHS and I promise to always be on my best behavior.  It should be noted that I am an "Outlander" but plan to educate myself on The Road of Service so I can join the chats and post my views in such as way as not to give the impression that I have my head stuck in a potbelly stove! 

[1oldgoat]

I've always admired AC&Y's frugality when it comes to rolling stock.  They recycled before the word was coined.  Freight cars, some steam, and even diesels (ex0 NKP S-2s and P&WV H20-44s.  (Why didn;t anyone come out that that in HO?  I would have bought AC&Y and P&WV models.)

Here's a question that has bugged me for YEARS...

The AC&Y planned to extend their line east to Youngstown; a plan that they had until after WWII (I think).  Was an exact route ever planned out, or surveyed?  Until I was 13, I lived about 5 miles NE of Mogadore and often wondered how close it would have come to our house. 

One otherthing I really liked about the AC&Y is that thet were never stingy with kerosine switch lamps (a prsonal RR icon).  Furthermore, their high sw stands has the same banner type as the NKP, but the diagonal arrow was green instead of white.  To top this off, the lamp had "bullseye" banners (the rings around the glass lenses.  Totally awesome!!!

OS/DO

[ACY Tom]

Recycling? The AC&Y recycled old boxcars into bay window cabooses, beginning in Sept., 1921 (Beat that, MILW and B&O!). The H20-44 was produced in brass many years ago by Alco Models (several variations), but has never been available in a plastic, ready to run HO version. I think a version was available in O scale around 1950. I agree there would be a market, although it would be limited. Big roads that used the H20-44 included U.P. (used as helpers on both Cajon Pass and Sherman Hill), NYC (IHB and several Midwestern locations), and PRR (several branch and heavy transfer assignments around Ohio, plus assignments on locals and coal branches of the Pittsburgh Division). Although AC&Y was originally intended to serve all three cities in its name, the road decided at an early date that it would not be financially beneficial to expand south or east. It is possible that the backers always intended service to Canton to be via established W&LE or B&O routes. As for the Youngstown extension, B&O rerouted and upgraded its Akron-Youngstown mainline in the 1890's, leaving the old R-O-W along the canal relatively intact. In 1907, the Cleveland, Alliance & Mahoning Valley interurban line was projected to use a section of ex-PRR line from Hudson to Ravenna (bypassed due to rerouting of PRR's Cleveland & Pittsburgh mainline); then the former B&O to Youngstown. The CA&MV had a rough time getting started, and didn't start building track until 1912, which was just after the founding of the AC&Y. They never did use the old PRR roadbed, but joined with the Northern Ohio Traction & Light Co. at Silver Lake instead. One possible scenario is that the AC&Y backers planned to use the old B&O line if the CA&MV didn't. The AC&YHS archives may have details of this. Some day we hope to go through the entire record if we live that long.

[ACY Tom]

I just looked through a list of materials in the archives. there is a map of the proposed route from Akron to Youngstown. Some time when I'm at Akron University, I hope to look it up and see whether the proposed route is the route I described.

[1oldgoat]

I'm aware of both the B&O (P&W) and PRR (C&P) abandoned ROWs,  The B&O still used the older line as far west as Newton Falls proper, crossing the NYC (LEA&W in town).  The B&O also retained the original P&W from Akrom east to a point a couple miles east of Cuyahoga Falls.  Still it would have made sense for the AC&Y to build a new ROW on both ends along the B&O and use the old P&W roadbed in the middle..  (The B&Os new line between Ravenna to Niles JCT. hosted NYC freights and PRR freights and passengers.*)  There were 3 flyover junctions to facilitate the trains of all three roads at Brady Lake, Ravenna and Niles Jct. all with in 50 miles.

On the PRR, I remeber the spur leading down into Hudson and crossing close to the intersection of both main streets Hwys 91 & 303 on the SE quadrant and ending at a propane dealer just east of 91.  At Brady(s) Lake, the Erie purchased the old C&P WB ROW to give it a double track to Ravenna.  I think the interurban used this ROW from Ravenna to Alliance. 

* NYC freights also had trackage rights from Ravenna, thru Alliance to Minerva.

In the early 60s, I did have a chance to hang around the depot in Husdon (where family friends lived).  Too bad they didn't live in Ravenna.  That was the real "hot spot"!!

Thanks

OS/DO

 

[gmpullman]

Interesting thread here!

I got to ride behind steam on the AC&Y back on (IIRC) April 9, 1971 when the Reading 2102 headed up a fan trip from Spencer to Carey (?). Somewhere I have some 8mm movies of the trip. I believe the 2102 was based in Akron for a while running under a group named Steam Tours or something like that.

Thanks for the memories, Ed

 

[1oldgoat]

When living in Ohio, I didn't see steam in the area from the time the B&O dropped the fires on its remaining 2-8-2s until the 2102 ran from Akron to Hudson and back on the PRR. Got to ride in the cab as they backed it out of the roho at S. Akron yard. Heady stuff for a teen! But it wasn't until after I got out of the Navy and moved to Seattle that they started to run steam. So I missed out on steam powered excursions: the 614 to Brownsville, PA, the 765 on the AC&Y, the 4070 on B&O's CT&V line, etc. I'd have given my left (fill in the blank) to ride any of them.

[MidlandMike]

When did they finally discontinue the mixed trains?

[ACY Tom]

Passenger service on AC&Y mixed trains 90 and 95 was discontinued on July 20, 1951. That's the short answer. The train was basically a long freight train of 40 cars or more, with a baggage-mail-coach car on the rear. While passenger service was discontinued, the trains were not discontinued. Combines 261 and 262 were taken out of service briefly, but returned to service on February 15, 1952 as numbers 70 and 71 on the caboose roster. As cabooses, their color was changed from green to red with yellow ends, but they were otherwise essentially unchanged. Number 70 was retired and reported scrapped in June, 1957. Number 70 was believed to have been retired around the same time, although no specific date has been found. The foregoing is from an article by Bill Hanslik Jr. in the Fall, 1996 issue of the AC&Y Historical Society News (Vol. 3, number 3). I located one car, presumably number 71, in very deteriorated condition in Barnett's scrapyard in Barberton in the mid-1960's. More recent research by Bob Lucas and me indicates that the combines were built by Harlan & Hollingsworth in 1910-11 as Philadelphia & Reading class PBf coaches. They were sold to Georgia Car & Locomotive Co. of Atlanta in 1936 and were bought by the Mississippi Central, who modified at least one into a baggage-mail-passenger car with the apartments in that unusual order. AC&Y bought them around 1941, modified the two cars to have apartments in a mail-baggage-coach order, and placed them in service on trains 90 and 95 in early 1942. Vestibules were retained at both ends throughout these conversions. A third car was also involved, but it remained configured as a coach for most of its life. Around the late 1940's, the end was opened up into an ersatz observation platform with a rail much like you would find on an O.P. obs.; but the side doors were retained. In this form, the coach was numbered X-900 on the Company Service roster, and it was presumably used to entertain guests on hunting trips to the far west end of the railroad. It was retired from this service when AC&Y bought a MoPac heavyweight business car, number 23, around 1957. X-900 ended up in Barnett's scrapyard with the combine. The forthcoming book will have coverage of this.

[ACY Tom]

The AC&Y mixed, nicknamed the "Delphos Bullet", was Ohio's last mixed train.

[ACY Tom]

My March 4 posting about the proposed eastern extension to Younstown may have been very much in error. On the AC&YHS website, Bob Lucas addresses the question and describes a very different routing for the survey. My answer was based on old stories and conjecture; he may be much closer to the actual truth with his description of a routing much closer to the alignment of Route 224.

[1oldgoat]

I've got a 1946 Official Guide. Once with the flu, I made a fantasy itinerary traveling RRs all over the North America. The first trains would have been 90 and 95 with an overnight in Delphos! Not doubt it was a mundane ride for most of the passengers, but how many of you guys would have given an eye tooth for to ride it? Anyone know how much work they did enroute? Most mixeds were notorious for running WAY late. I imagine it was the same with 90 and 95. OS 6:40 AM

[ACY Tom]

No details to add, but I can report that the manuscript has been sent to the publisher, and the AC&Y book is on its way to publication.  It's highly doubtful that it will hit the bookshelves before Christmas.  It's more likely that it will be out in early 2015.

The book will be heavily illustrated with color photos, and will contain sections on AC&Y motive power, freight cars, passenger cars, cabooses, and other Company service equipment.  There will also be coverage of the physical plant and the road's history and operations.

The AC&Y owned a 1/4 share of the Akron & Barberton Belt Railroad, with the remaining 3/4 owned equally by B&O, PRR, and Erie.  The historical societies of these larger roads have shown little or no interest in the A&BB, so the AC&YHS has adopted the A&BB.  The new book will have significant coverage of the A&BB as well, including a locomotive roster that is probably the most inclusive and accurate ever compiled.   That being said, the info is pretty esoteric and elusive, so we'd welcome corrections or clarifications.  The current issue of the Society's online magazine has an article on A&BB's ex-PRR 8-wheel wooden cabooses.  If I'm allowed a bit of self-promotion, I'll add that I wrote it.  If I'm not allowed to say that, you can just pretend I didn't.

[daveklepper]

hats off to you and hope to be able to buy the book!

[ACY Tom]

An update is overdue, but I've been waiting to hear a publishing date.  Morning Sun's latest announcement tells us that the AC&Y color book (with significant coverage of the Akron & Barberton Belt) is expected to be released in April, 2015 at $59.95.  This is a project of the AC&Y Historical Society.  The principal author is Bob Lucas, but the contributors (including yours truly) are many and varied.  It's a labor of love.  None of us is getting paid for this, but I understand a few of us may get a free copy of the book.  If you buy the book, it will not increase my personal wealth by a nickel, so I don't think this notice violates any "commercial use" policies. 

You have about 6 months to adjust your budget to allow for this $60.00 expenditure.  I think you'll find it worthwhile, but of course my opinion is tainted by personal involvement.

Enjoy!

Tom

 

[dakotafred]

Railroad and similar limited-market books have to be high-priced to give the publisher even a shot at breaking even. When deciding whether I can afford a book, I find it useful to think in terms of beer units.

In the instance of a book that costs $60: Is it worth 2 cases of good craft beer? Of course! --  if it's a book I'm interested in. For sure, it  will be there for me to enjoy long after that beer is a distant memory!

[ACY Tom]

A great person once said "Life is too short to drink bad beer."  I happen to agree.  Many's the time I've gone to a restaurant & asked to look at the beer list & found it disappointing.  It's sad when root beer is the better choice to accompany a pizza.  But I digress & we can't have that, can we?

I wanted to get the info out there ASAP so that those of us on fixed incomes can plan ahead.  Sixty bucks means budgeting $10 a month in order to have the money in April.  Make it $11 a month to cover sales tax.  Make it 5 months if you find a better price.  Enjoy!

Tom

[ACY Tom]

For anyone who hasn't heard, the Morning Sun book on the AC&Y and the affiliated Akron & Barberton Belt RR is expected in April.  I have heard April 1, but I'm not sure whether that's the specific date, or if it's an April Fools joke.  The AC&Y Historical Society does not have a Society book store, but the Society web site has info on a sanctioned dealer who probably has as good a price as you're likely to find.  Membership and access to the web site are free.  This is not a profit-making deal for me.  I think I'm going to get one free book for my efforts on the project (let's see --- how much does that come to in wages per hour?????).

Tom

[dakotafred]

Good luck to you and to Morning Sun. You have the satisfaction of having gotten the book out there and made the story available to those who care to help themselves to it. No author can ask for more.

[ACY Tom]

Thanks, Fred.  I appreciate the nice sentiments & the vote of confidence.  I just hope it comes out looking like we envisioned, and I hope folks get some enjoyment and good, new info from it.

AND I HOPE WE DIDN'T LET ANY SERIOUS ERRORS GET INTO THE FINAL PRODUCT!

Tom

[ACY Tom]

The book is out.  It appeared in some retail shops late last week.  I got my copy in the mail today.

Tom