Passenger Trains between Chicago and Washington, DC.

[NP Eddie]

All:

I know that the B&O ran the "Capitol Limited" as an all Pullman train.

Did the PRR also run a similar all sleeping car train?  The "Liberty Limited" was coach-Pullman.

Where there other roads in the Chicago-Washington mix?

 

Thanks,

Ed Burns

Retired NP-BN-BNSF

763-234-9306

[Deggesty]

Ed, it is true that in the fifties, and until it was discontinued, the Liberty Limited did have coaches--but the January, 1930, Guide shows that it did not have coaches between Washington and Chicago. The November, 1939, issue shows a coach between the two cities, and the November, 1947, issue shows two sections--one coach and one all-sleeper.

I would say that these representations indicate that there was not much demand for all-sleeper trains between these two cities.

Also, the B&O was the PRR's only competition in this market.

Incidentally, the fare between the two cities was the same , no matter which road you took--and the Chicago-Baltimore fare was the same as the Chicago-Washington fare. And, consider that if you rode the PRR from Chicago to Washington, you rode through Baltimore, and if you rode the B&O from Chicago to Baltimore, you rode through Washington.

There was through Pullman service between Virginia Tidewater and Chicago, but there was none between Washington and Chicago that went through Virginia until Amtrak inaugurated the Cardinal.

[NP Eddie]

Johnny:

I always enjoy the information that people have from their part of railroading.

I am an ATCS host in Anoka, MN and mostly monitor the BNSF's Staples and Wayzata Subs and can answer most questions about the Twin Cities.

One oddity of pre-merger Minneapolis is that the GN and NP interchanged cars three ways! Industry cars west of the Mississippi went one way, Industry cars east of the Mississippi went another, and road to road cars went to the Minnesota Transfer. Confusing? You bet. Then we had the BN merger---not much confusion, but still an exciting time in my railroad career.

Ed Burns

763-234-9306 [e-mail]

[daveklepper]

1.   The Capitol Lmtd was not the only B&O train between DC and Chi.  There were others, and I think one was called the National Lmtd., a name appropriated by Amtrak for a PRR route KC - NY train.  Up to 1952, B&O trains continued to Jersey City using Reading and CNJ north of Philly, with B&O buses to Manhattan and Brooklyn  via CNJ ferries.  This included the Capitol Limited.

2.    At least for one year, there was a through NYC - Chi Pullman via PRR, C&O, NYC.   Don't remember which of the three through C&O trains handled it.   Probably the George Washington.   Or year.

[BaltACD]

In addition to the Capitol Limited (trains 5 & 6) the B&O also ran the Columbian (trains 25 & 26) as a all coach streamliner which was the first train to have a dome car East of Chicago when the train was reequiped with lightweight equipment in May of 1948.  The Columbian ran as a separate train from the Capitol, either 10 minutes ahead or behind, until approximately 1958, when it was routinely combined with the Capitol except during periods of heavy traffic.

The Shenandoah (trains 7 & 8) was the secondary train on the Washington-Chicago route and carried coach, Pullman and head end traffic.  The train also carried a Pullman dome car starting in 1950 after the B&O purchased 3 Pullman dome cars from the C&O.  Two of the cars ran on the Capitol on a daily basis and the 3rd car ran on the Shenandoah on a every other day basis.  The Shenandoah had late afternoon arrivals at both Washington and Chicago.

The Chicago-Washington Express (trains 9 & 10) was the third train on the route handling coach & Pullman accomodations and a heavy amount of head end traffic as well as making all the flag stops on the route.  During the late 60's the B&O tried their version of Auto Train with trains 9 & 10 carrying customers automobiles on a bi-level autorack - with a noticeable lack of success.  These train were scheduled to depart origin about 5 hours prior to the Capitol and arrive their destination just prior to the Capitol's early morning arrival.

Trains 31 & 32 were all mail and express trains that operated on the route with only a rider coach for the crew.

I my youth I had opportunities to ride all of them.

Beyond the Liberty Limited, I have no idea if the PRR ran any other service on the route.

 

[Deggesty]

The National Limited was a New York/Washington-St. Louis train, which carried both coaches and sleepers.

So far as I know, the Liberty Limited was the only PRR train was ran solely between Washington and Chicago, though there were Washington-Chicago sleepers that ran on other trains between Harrisburg and Chicago.

There may have been Washington-Chicago service on the C&O/NYC in the Roaring Twenties; I do not have any C&O information of that period.

We can note that the Cardinal not only provides service on the former C&O between Washington and Cincinnati, it also provides service between New York City and western Virginia, West Virginia, and eastern Kentucky, which was provided by the PRR/C&O service. 

[nyc#25]

 An interesting note is that the "Liberty Limited" was pulled backwards between

Baltimore and Washington as the trackage in Baltimore didn't allow for a

progressive move.

[ZephyrOverland]

Adding to what was said, the C&O did operate through Chicago-Washington services on its own line (including the C&O of Indiana) in the pre WW1 years.  The C&O Limited existed around 1914 and the Old Dominion Limited existed around 1912.  I believe these trains also handled through Chicago-New York cars as well.

The PRR may have operated additional through Chicago-Washington trains but it did operate dedicated Washington-Pittsburgh trains which connected to Chicago services.  The Capital Express of 1913, the Mid-West Express of 1912 and the St. Louisian - Washington-Pittsburgh Section of 1946 are examples of this (the Mid-West Express may have been briefly a Washington-Chicago train).

I know of two Chicago-Baltimore services, one of which bypassed Washington.  One service, The Chicago Limited and Baltimore Limited, operated via Western Maryland from Baltimore to Connellesville, P&LE Connellsville-Youngstown and LS&MS Youngstown to Chicago. 

This service existed around 1913.

Another Chicago-Baltimore service was the Chicago-Baltimore Special and Fast Express.  These trains existed around 1899 and ran on the Monon From Chicago to Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Hamilton and Dayton from Indianapolis to Cincinnati, B&O-Southwestern from Cincinnati to Parkersburg and the B&O from Parkersburg to Baltimore, via Washington.

[ACY Tom]

Another interesting service was proposed, but I don't know whether it was fully implemented.  The Wabash was involved with the Wheeling & Lake Erie and Pittsburgh & West Virginia.  They evidently had through passenger service from Chicago to Pittsburgh via WAB/WLE/PWV.  This service was intended to extend farther east via P&WV/WM all the way to Baltimore, which isn't very far from Washington.  I believe there was passenger service on all these lines at some point, but don't know whether cars ran all the way through without change.  Even if they did, I seriously doubt there was ever through sleeper service available.  Frankly, the B&O (and to a lesser extent, PRR) had the business established and sewn up before Wabash & friends ever got their through route established.  But it did become the famous Alphabet Route, a prime routing for freight for many years.

I probably have some of these details wrong, but I think the general idea is pretty accurate. 

Tom