North Coast Limited's SP&S Dome Sleeper 306.

[NP Eddie]

ALL:

In "The Cars of Pullman", by Welsh, Howes, and Holland, page 159, shows SP&S dome sleeper 306 painted SP&S (not NP) colors.  Part of the caption said this photo was taken in the late 1960's.

Can any one tell me why the SP&S repainted this car in SP&S colors?

I have my suspicions, but want to see what other have to say.

Ed Burns

NP-BN-BNSF Clerk from Minneapolis.

[BaltACD]

It appears that the car was 'owned' by SP&S and used as a pool car for both the NCL & EB

http://trainweb.org/web_lurker/SPS/

[NP Eddie]

BALTACD:

Having been at Northtown (Minneapolis, MN) as of the 1970 merger, it is my opinion that the SP&S knew the merger was coming and wanted to spite the NP. The SP&S owned the car, so it should be SP&S colors.

In my watching post merger (1970-1971) BN passenger trains, the consists stayed the way they were before the merger.

Another piece of the puzzle is this: In the summer of 1970, I received permission to ride a BN freight train from Vancouver, WA to Bieber, CA. I don't remember which passenger trains I used from Minneapolis to Vancouver and from Wishram to Minneapolis. But, when I went into the Vancouver dispatchers office to find out where my freight train was, the ACD was grousing (really grousing) that the new company (BN) took their six GP38's (were to be SPS 200-205)  and had them delivered as BN 2072-2077.

I started that afternoon as an NP clerk and wound up after midnight as a BN clerk. I saw the first BN 97 arrive at Northtown. Those were exciting and confusing times---but I got a lot of overtime!

 

Ed Burns

763-234-9306

[BaltACD]

Having been employed with the progression B&O-C&O-Chessie-CSX and CSX + 42% of Conrail and with work responsibilities on both the North and South end of the combined properties - I feel your pain and likewise had it benefit my wallet.

[BaltACD]

NP Eddie

BALTACD:

Having been at Northtown (Minneapolis, MN) as of the 1970 merger, it is my opinion that the SP&S knew the merger was coming and wanted to spite the NP. The SP&S owned the car, so it should be SP&S colors.

In my watching post merger (1970-1971) BN passenger trains, the consists stayed the way they were before the merger.

Another piece of the puzzle is this: In the summer of 1970, I received permission to ride a BN freight train from Vancouver, WA to Bieber, CA. I don't remember which passenger trains I used from Minneapolis to Vancouver and from Wishram to Minneapolis. But, when I went into the Vancouver dispatchers office to find out where my freight train was, the ACD was grousing (really grousing) that the new company (BN) took their six GP38's (were to be SPS 200-205)  and had them delivered as BN 2072-2077.

I started that afternoon as an NP clerk and wound up after midnight as a BN clerk. I saw the first BN 97 arrive at Northtown. Those were exciting and confusing times---but I got a lot of overtime!

 

Ed Burns

763-234-9306

Wasn't the SP&S included in the BN merger?  Without knowing, I had always assumed it was probably owned 50/50 by NP & GN.

[NP Eddie]

Yes, the SP&S was owned 50/50 by the NP and GN. The former SPS ACD was complaining because the SPS ordered those locomotives and they came painted for the BN. He felt that those locomotives should have been painted and numbered in an SPS series, but the powers to be told EMD that they were to be painted BN as they were used on the first BN 97 into Northtown (Minneapolis). In other politics said they would be painted BN.

As information, the NP, GN, and CBQ ordered locomotives in 1969, giving them their respective pre-merger numbers, but they were delivered as BN locomotives. For example one SD45 was to be NP 3636, but it was delivered as BN 6478. My reference is Del Grosso's "Burlington Northern Railroad locomotives 1970-1996". 

A number of older locomotives were retired immediately after the 1970 merger without receiving their BN assigned numbers. A few older locomotives were renumbered and retired within one year.

Ed Burns

[passengerfan]

The Dome sleeper in question was repainted as it was no longer needed for the NCL pool of cars so operated on the SP&S as a dome only car eastbound between Portland and Spokane. Westbound sleeping car space was sold as it made a connections with EB at Spokane with through cars from Chicago. This SP&S train simply named the Streamliner also connected with the NCL in Pasco in both directions with through cars. The Dome seating was used eastbound and the sleeping space and dome used westbound. The extra cars owned by the SP&S that had operated in the EB and NCL and were not really used any longer east of Pasco and Spokane were all being repainted SP&S colors when the BN merger halted the repainting.    

[NP Eddie]

Passenger Train Fan:

Do you think that the SPS saw that the merger was coming and decided to have one last shot at independence, that is painting their NCL and EB cars their own colors? Just a thought, as painting a passenger car was a costly venture and not necessary as the BN merger was one year away.

As stated before, I rode a former SPS/OT/GN freight from Vancouver, Washington to Bieber, California on a pass (one of the neat pluses of the BN merger!). The former SPS ACD was really bitching that the new company stole their newly ordered Geeps and they came painted BN colors and numbered BN 2072 and above. Those new locomotives sure looked good at 1AM or so.

Ed Burns

763-234-9306